djindio wrote:

So which came first?

Planet Rock is said to have surfaced April 17, 1982 as recalled by Bones:
http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/164212#2113627

I Don't Know What It Is is said to have been released in the beginning of 1982 with a B Side cover version of Kraftwerk - Trans Europa Express.
(no usable quote.)

Both tracks are virtually identical with regards to the instrumental music.

Every DJ that I personally know who owns a copy of the '82 P.L. 12" bought either new around '83 or '84, or bought it used at some point in there career. I've been able to track down the artist as Pit Löw, an Italo synth keyboardist, but I haven't talked to anyone who can pinpoint a release date.

TEKNONUTTER wrote:

Looks interesting, it'd be nice to listen to some of it.

djindio wrote:

^
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHHHcnbaAt4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Vf8pXGYRG0

schtel wrote:

^ very pure. Thanks for sharing. :)

letroset wrote:

I reckon it's definitely a Planet Rock cover, rather than a pre-planet rock cover of Trans-Europe Express (although it does use elements of T.E.E. that Planet Rock doesn't, like the descending strings at 3:20 or thereabouts, and the vocal at the end of course).

What gives it away is the bit about 1:27 where they use the keyboard line from "The Mexican" by Babe Ruth. As far as I'm aware, at the time this was an obscure album cut from an obscure 70s rock band that was to all intents and purposes forgotten about until the hip-hop DJs in the Bronx started using it as a break-record. So I think it's too much of a coincidence to say that a European producer just happened to use it as well. It's gotta be a copy of Planet Rock: the percussion and the rising synth part and the bassline and everything - I'd be extremely surprised if Bambaataa had copied everything from this guy! Plus, I'd say ZYX is exactly the kind of label where you'd expect to find unofficial European cover versions of the big US hits, like Planet Rock.

Having said all that, it's still a pretty cool version isn't it? I'd definitely grab that if I saw it.

djindio wrote:

Mmmm, yes.

Oddly, that riff used in both the Transeuropa-Express cover & Planet Rock sounds a bit more like the spaghetti western soundtrack by the Italian composer Ennio Morricone to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLXQltR7vUQ

...than the rock track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3_kgssjGjo
...or the disco cover of the rock track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myFFLPG28Fc

Definitely a sound that gets around. :-)



I'm wondering if the 12" or the LP would be a better find?

schtel wrote:

I love that line, Dreams Of Santa Anna, being one of my all time favorite tunes.

letroset wrote:

True, I forgot Babe Ruth got it originally from that soundtrack. Never knew about there was a Bombers version as well though - starts off good, but you can't beat the real thing.

And yeah, Dreams of Santa Anna is mint!

djfrankiebones wrote:

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Where did the 1982 part come in?

djindio wrote:

1982:
Original LP ZYX 20.019: Space Dreams (track A2)
Original 12" ZYX 5006 : I Don't Know What It Is (track B)

1983:
Appears on a megamix 12" & LP, the 12": ZYX Mix (The LP is not yet listed on discogs)

1985:
Appears on another megamix 12": ZYX-Oldie-Remix

1986:
Remix 12" ZYX 5418 : Come On And Do It / Transeuropa-Express

djfrankiebones wrote:

1981

http://www.discogs.com/release/217422

1982

http://www.discogs.com/release/357980

It is strange that the title is the same even thought the electronic cut on the Pete Shelley was known as "Witness The Change".

djfrankiebones wrote:

The original "Mexican" by Babe Ruth did copy that Ennio Morricone riff and John Robie had copied the original "Mexican" on "Planet Rock" which somehow equates back to spaghetti western soundtrack.

I must admit though that I never even heard of the P.L. track until I read this topic. That is quite strange to say the least.

schtel wrote:

I just thought I'd throw these in, as appropriate to this thread.

Play At Your Own Risk Apparently conceived on the same night as Planet Rock. Youtube audio clip (Inst.) @2:18 "You know how to whistle don't you Steve? :)
Planet Patrol LP

djindio wrote:

here in 1982:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qAft0j2MKg

here again in 1990:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiB6NAy1mVU

^sorry if off topic & probably not considered electro... :-/




They are also supposed to be both recorded on the same 24track tape.

letroset wrote:

Yeah as Frankie said, the PL "I Don't Know What It Is" is actually a cover version of Pete Shelley "Witness The Change" (which isn't on youtube strangely - would've thought somebody would've posted that by now). I'm sure there's another later cover version or ripoff of that that also gets the name wrong, possibly an italian house version maybe? I can't remember. Maybe there was a European pressing of the Pete Shelley 12 that was mislabelled or something, that could explain it.

As for "Play at Your Own Risk", I'm sure I read or heard somewhere that they'd recorded it in the same session as an alternate version just in case they had problems with using the Kraftwerk melody. From the number of different parts in it, it sounds like they were having fun playing around and just decided to throw it all in. That was the first old school electro 12 I found (I came to this late!) and the one that got me properly hooked. Always listened to the instrumental though ...

Speaking of cover versions and Planet Patrol, a while back on youtube I found some I'd not heard before, like this cover of Gary Glitter and also this AC/DC cover which is on the same label as the 10 Speed version of Tour De France.

letroset wrote:

Just noticed:







That'll teach me to read properly before posting.

schtel wrote:

from this album I mentioned http://www.discogs.com/release/1253910 I recently sold my copy but is something def. worth listening to, a piece of history I would say.

schtel wrote:

great vid, great dance routine, kinda Village People meets the Furious Five. ;)

djfrankiebones wrote:

In some senses, yes. In others, no.
Planet Patrol was Baker & Robie. Baker had the gear, Robie had the 'licks'.

"Play At Your Own Risk" was "Planet Rock" with a song being written around it. Essentially sourced on the same night, but not configured straight away.

Arthur Baker allowed Lenny Dee to use the original "Planet Rock" 2-Inch tape when Lenny, Victor Simonelli & me did a track for the first Criminal Element Orchestra LP called "Do You Like It".

We bounced tracks though from one two inch to a new master which is what they did with "Play At Your Own Risk".

AT that time "Planet Rock" was only 7 years old and yet being in Shakedown Studios in 1989 working on a new track using the original "Planet Rock" master was an incredible feeling. We actually created a monster of a track which got lost inside a conceptual LP of absolute bullshit.

------------------------------------
Then there was this:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1078112

This was Baker/Robie's revenge to Twilight 22 who they felt ripped them off.

djfrankiebones wrote:

Here is one of the funniest things you will ever see in the Discogs archives:

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djfrankiebones wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=111110

Back to "The Mexican", The Bombers version gives Morricone credit so we at least confirmed that part...

The Babe Ruth version, which is the original did not really become popular until Jellybean covered it in 1984.

I'm not saying nobody knew about it, but like the P.L. record, that kind of slipped by me.

schtel wrote:

^ haha not quite the Brady Bunch. ;)

djfrankiebones wrote:

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1982 was my first year of taking this all serious. I mean the music. I'm thinking that the P.L. record probably was shipped out after 1982. I mean Salsoul did not put out a 12" of "Let No Man Put Asunder" until years after the 1977 copyright.

djfrankiebones wrote:

you can see my first signs of baldness, lol. Maybe I was sweating Arthur way to hard. But those fringes on Morales jacket kind of takes the prize.....http://www.discogs.com/image/A-14783-1155576006.jpeg

schtel wrote:

It's the mullets and jerry curls that get me going. But yeah, leather tassels are hot too.

djfrankiebones wrote:

I have to say this is one of the most interesting topics I have read on Discogs in a while. Only because I am baffled on how this P.L. record was never even a blip on the radar in N.Y.C.
And oddly enough I do own the 1986 version, but will admit I have no idea what it was. The copy I own came from a Philadelphia DJ.

As you mentioned, the DJ's you know bought it in 83 or 84 which has me actually thinking they put a 1982 date on the label because they knew we would be here on the internet in 2008 trying to figure it out.

This is where we should start talking about Began Cekic:

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Began+Cekic

Because like this Pit Löw character, Cekic also was a master at illusions during that era.

And last but not least, Juan Atkins claims to have created "Clear" before ever hearing "Planet Rock". This is a bold claim which I actually believe because the "Clear" Juan created is absolutely not the "Clear" we all know and love.

Jose "Animal" Diaz made "Clear" into the classic it is. And clearly based on the imprint of Baker/Robie's "Planet Rock".

The original "Clear" featured on the Cybertron LP probably was inspired by Kraftwerk like everything else. Telex did a great job on that with Moscow Disko back in 1979 and then "Brainwash" in 1982. Carl Craig mentions Telex as inspiration which somehow equates to everyone in Detroit at the time.

But Cybertron as a 12" has more history based in NYC from the Animal remix and then Los Angeles for where the label was based then Detroit where it was created.

Am I going off on a tangent, here?

My apologies if I am...

Not to get off on a rant or anything.

djfrankiebones wrote:

Kind of wish there was 20 years behind that picture as opposed to 19. I will also have to admit I was always zealous of Victor Simonelli's perfect hairstyle...You could become Brooklyn legend with that hair in the 80's...

djfrankiebones wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=392460

And then we should also look at what was going on right before "Planet Rock" because there is even more history going on right there.

djfrankiebones wrote:

If you listen to the drum programming on the P.L. version, even Baker/Robie seem to adopted more of that sound which was based on their own, then their actual own.

I'm thinking of the Guru "Who You Stealing From" track that they did. Since it was an attack on Twilight 22 for copying "Planet Rock" the drums are more linear and that would become apparent if you were to copy a sound that was copied from you.

The drums on Guru and P.L. sound very close. The pattern is "Planet Rock/Numbers" but the sounds are very 1984.

djfrankiebones wrote:

Indio, you got me working the angles here....

http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=560009

Here is where the flip side track of the P.L. track is from.

djindio wrote:

Ya, I added that a week ago on the reissue here:
http://www.discogs.com/release/1385372
http://www.discogs.com/history?release=1385372#latest

:-)

-----

Five or six years ago I talked to an old retired Italo DJ from Italy who also says he didn't see the 12" of P.L. - I Don't Know What It Is till around the end of 1982, but has also said he was playing 'Come On And Do It' from the Album P.L. - Space Dreams during the summer of 1982. He also said he had an old boot-mix tape he made back then with the track 'Come On And Do It' which, according to him, is the only good song on that album. :-) He thought less of this cover version LP than of other cover versions coming out at the time.

^I guess that conversation years ago is what first put the question in my head "which came first then".

Differing musical tastes aside, I'm sort of wondering if the LP version & the 12" version are at all different in style? I've never actually heard the 10 minute version of Transeuropa-Express from that album. Perhaps it's similar to the Cybotron - Clear LP version vs. the 12" version as you mentioned above. (I should have probably bought a copy of the LP before talking about it here, as the price will probably go up now...)

Unfortunately, a search for the writer and/or the publisher listed here http://www.discogs.com/image/R-98027-1179597354.jpeg turns up nothing.

djfrankiebones wrote:

With the entire history of Electronics, I believe the very first time everyone felt that sound was here:

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=5c81X6BiI0Y

At about (1:47).

But to really get to a point in time where others would be able to emulate that would be in early 1982. If anything at all "Planet Rock" was able to show the world, "Hey, you wanna make a record like Kraftwerk?"

Once you had the 808 and sat with it for a few days, that was really all you needed. But it is also intersting to note the producers who worked with exclusive cover-versions before sampling was available. It seems like P.L. was all about that.
As well as Baker/Robie.

letroset wrote:

I only found that out on here (might have been you that mentioned it now that I think about it) a while back - I'd always thought the claim that he said they'd done it before hearing Planet Rock was bullshit cause the 12" version of Clear is so obviously "inspired" by it, but like you say, it probably is true. Definitely very much a NY record as you say. Never heard the original LP version of Clear though - can't find it on youtube or anything. Anyone know where I can hear it? Not asking for an MP3 to download or anything, but I am curious.

On a (childish - sorry) Animal Diaz-related sidenote: what's up with that "Bugger Groove" record he did? And it was on "Manhole" records too, haha! Does "bugger" mean something else over there by any chance?

Began Cekic I only know of from Trans-Lux and Began Began "Computer Wars" - the other week I found a version of that tune with exactly the same beats and vocals but different synths and a different artist and track name on youtube - bootlegging his own stuff maybe? I suppose if you're a shady character you can do stuff like that, but would a much bigger operation like ZYX fake a release date?

djfrankiebones wrote:

The thing with Began Cekic which is not 100% confirmed because I cannot find any supporting data is where he wound up...

I know he was involved with some type of cocaine investigation which had the FBI following specific people around which ended up with a shoot-out on the West Side Highway right near the World Trade Center in the early to mid 80's.

He was one of the people involved. But anytime I try to find info on it, I wind up on some 9-11 shit....

djfrankiebones wrote:

http://nz.youtube.com/watch?v=xF_PlS11RPg

As for Jose "Animal" Diaz? Well he got pushed aside when the Latin Rascals stole center stage for a brief moment in New York City in 1984. The Youtube above was The Latin Rascals defining moment and clearly can be heard in this mix. They used fake names on the label but it was obvious because nobody else was editing like that in 1984.

djindio wrote:

Couldn't even find release date info here either:
http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/166877

:-/