Nebula42 wrote:

I'm listening to an Eye-Q compilation and it's actually really good. I never thought I'd like trance but I need to check out some old school trance, it's actually really unique. Anyways, when did trance become commercial and shitty? What trend started it? It's hard to imagine that old school trance evolved into Tiesto... =/

GENRE wrote:

i was well into eye q and harthouse, early superstition, dragonfly etc and that for me was the zenith of good trance. In London, big nights such as Final Frontier revolved around a very European, dare I say progressive version of techno. Its a bit a fading memory now but I recall more commercially minded and financially astute clubs were cashing on in the popularity. Superclubs became brands that could be shipped in and out of Ibiza and slowly the qulaity control of the music disappeared.

my Eye Q collection still comes out from time to time. Great tunes and good memories.

spiraltribeliverpool wrote:

It's a quality control issue music wise I guess. Disposable music for disposable crowds. I have old trance tapes and tracks on those tapes still sound timeless today.

Barry_Crumbcheeks wrote:

it's got latent commercialism built into it, the naive and obvious melodies that in their crude form are sometimes pretty charming (adventures of dama!) quickly ossified into formulaic tropes.

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

It became too popular and then became the victim of the 'bandwagon syndrome' that seems to affect most popular genres.

DJFrodo wrote:

The lack of LSD?

Well, this is the way i saw it....

I did notice that somewhere in the mid 90's that songs getting into longer and longer breakdowns. Think that may have invited more sweeping synth lines. The corniness of the oldskool sounds & samples got old for most too. Somewhere around then too, it more progressive (mainly the Euro type stuff) instead of just 4 on the floor. Think somewhere along that line it became overproduced with too many sounds going off at the same time. Mixing two tracks at that point sounded like 4 were invovled. It seemed too that trance was the starting point of listening to techno for many at this point. I would dare say that trance was tops over other styles at this point too. Guess it was easier to lose yourself in?

The computer era kickin in too could have helped kill it? More people making tracks meant more to go through to find the good stuff. But a LOT of DJs just play what comes out without regard if it's good or bad....it's new, so who cares.

Not saying that a little overproduction is bad, but there is beauty in simplicity. Some of the most popular songs are the simple ones. Like that "time of our lives" track by Green Day or "Jane Says" by Janes Addiction & "Doll Parts" by Hole, their more memorable songs were the simplier ones.

Congrats though for noticing the difference. Most can't, it all sounds the same. But few people like my little brother can tell when something is oldskool or pre-Y2K. Funny thing about him, he loves the commercial/hard trance stuff minus vocals.....but HATES Tiesto.

dexterfeng wrote:

You could hear the structure going south pretty early on. The early PvD records. umm Visions of Shiva I think it was. I hated that thing the minute I heard it. It signaled my exit point for an awful lot of the trance Europe was trying on for size and sent me full on into the Exist Dance school. Oh. ATB and Chicane.
I'm of the mind the CJA had a lot to do with commercialization of everything but that's another discussion.

kompressorkanonen wrote:

Barry is bang on target. A lot of the classic trance (the stuff on MFS and Eye Q in particular) was fairly accessible music which had a potential for mass appeal that made it ripe for bastardization. The catchy elements of the sound were too apparent for the genre to remain uncorrupted. Also, there were plenty of dodgy records around even in the genre's heyday, which gave it a bad rep. When Mills-style techno started to get all the attention around 95, most of the talented trance producers either disappeared or moved on to other styles.

doors wrote:

good point. I think trance was the easiest style to commercialize, to tweak into a mass-appeal genre that could be played on the radio and shit like that. Trance was the biggest money $ maker... and we all know that money and music don't mix.

I don't want to point fingers, but I believe it's the dutchs and scandinavian that first started the cash-in... Buuren, Tiesto, etc...

kompressorkanonen wrote:

Leave the Scandos out of this, please (OK Norway was the first country outside Holland to embrace Tiesto, but the global repercussions of said fact are negligible, I dare say).

TIM wrote:

There is enough good trance to last a lifetime.

I guess it's what you first heard that you are drawb too.

I suppose if I started listening to trance in 96 then I would like Goa or psy. If I started in 2000 I would like progressive trance. If I started in 2005 I would like this epic euphoria trance stuff. I started in 92 so I liked ambient techno which I called trance because I didn't know any better. Wasn't until about 94 did I know ok this is ambient with some techno and this over here is trance.

Allot of it has to do also with the ease of being able to make music. Because it's so easier there is no quality control.

Also everybody wants to make music. If you like electronic music and you are somewhat but not as hardcore as the true electronic fan I suppose people get drawn to doing trance. Also its more popular music than other electronic music styles.

LIke barry says above. The melodies are so basic, naïve and obvious it just becomes so boring after multiple listens. There is no depth.

I for one like most want a melody or a song to be catchy. The catchy part of newer trance?! I mean look how people dance to trance! There is no funk, no sex appeal. Its drug music and music for people to escape their reality.

Because the nature of the basic beat and tempo there is not much progression and originality. Because of "escape of reality or tance feel" it is either very dark or very euphoric or happy.

Not much progression and basic elements plus obvious mood equals a formula for really bad music.

I'm sure new trance fans think the trance I grew up with is stale and not as polished. When there trance is old trance than they might change their minds about what I liked.but for me going forward, the chances of them liking what came before is higher than someone like me as hardcore as I am liking what evolved out of it.

Rambling now.

Who cares anyways.

I break it down song by song.


I dare someone to a trance song from say 2002 or newer to try and get me to like it. I want to be wowed too. I want to be wrong. Show me.

Youtube a good trance song from let's say 2002 or newer.
I am 100 percent honest in my opinion.

Zubeldia wrote:

^yeah, definitely so... (dutchies and norskis)

tom wrote:

When Sven did his 2nd album

doors wrote:

sorry I didn't want to insult anyone. From an outside view, it just seems like commercial trance first got embraced by the nordic countries, imported from the dutch. I know it's not simple like that, I apologize for my blunt statement.


What really bother me in all this, is those two very different style share the same name. Which is why I often use the term "bubblegum trance" for the commercial shit. Can we please start differencing the two??

cypherism wrote:

Probably, getting very popular

= Sellout

Nebula42 wrote:

Interesting, basically people started to jump on the trance bandwagon about 95/96 because they realized it could appeal to the masses. Idiots started producing more "accessible" stuff for the masses, which included cheesy breakdowns and cheesy melodies.

While we're on this topic, can someone suggest some good pre-commercial trance?

TIM wrote:

good pre-commercial trance aye?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmlVf-rKqpI

violet force - planet e

doors wrote:

L.S.G. - Rendezvous In Outer Space
Spicelab - Lost In Spice
Spicelab - A Day On Our Planet
Azid Force - Magic Mushroom E.P.
Resistance D - Dreams EP
Essence Of Nature, The - Blue Lotus / Blue Orchidee

from the top of my head...

doors wrote:

I am still looking TIM for a good trance track on youtube from 2002 or newer, it's a bit harder than I tought...

TIM wrote:

listen and learn new trance lovers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jQP3BSzaFs
Resistance D - Cosmic Love

some others random ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMXjxXBgMKs
Microglobe - High On Hope

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sAPQrDNS88
Effective Force - Punishing the Atoms (Paul Van Dyk mix)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H12ElubGPGo
Humate - Love Stimulation

more techno than house but you get the picture:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAi1Td61IwU
Sun Electric - Entrance (Dave Angel Remix)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5MKWcG2M9s
Union Jack - Lollypop Man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhJmhWT4Qrg
SEQUENTIAL - Trip To Paradise

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9fG5iuuN8s
Desert Storm - Desert Storm

virtual symmetry - see you
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_0stUsS3qs

TIM wrote:

thats just some ones in my favorites on youtube. i need to add more music on there

Manys wrote:

web developers.

TIM wrote:

lol.

car commercials

djerome wrote:

I think Barry said it well.

your form = your function

breakbeat, breaks, are also easy to commercialize as well

doors wrote:

this youtube video is taken from this: Paul van Dyk - X-Mix-1 - The MFS-Trip
very nice video, so here is a special treat for everyone:

1/7
2/7
3/7
4/7
5/7
6/7
7/7

anyway I am off. I am going to go eat my eggos.

little_alien wrote:

It already happened in 1993-1994!

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

Check out any of the releases on the Anjunabeats label or Lost Language label or Platipus label to name just three.

TIM wrote:

can you youtube any so i can hear?

Nebula42 wrote:

Thanks, my slsk queue is going to be huge soon. =)

ballmouse wrote:

No mention of Robert Miles's contribution to the commercialization of trance?

Children was a gigantic hit, although it was called "dream house" at the time. Well eventually it was labeled trance for whatever reason (trance djs playing it, licensing to trance comps, whatever) and a lot of people probably tried to cash in on what Robert Miles/Children accomplished.

Well, I wasn't really paying attention to trance music at the time, so correct me if I am completely wrong. I'm by no means saying the commercialization of trance is all Robert Miles's doing, I'm saying he probably factored into it somehow.

ballmouse wrote:

not that I particularly enjoy trance anymore, but i searched the tube for TIM and found this one which I didnt think was too bad, good even imho

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbrxCfZI998

doors wrote:

Good one, I have a few records from Platipus, it's a good label but I am mostly familiar with earlier materials. Is there any records from their late catalog that you recommend?

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

Cultivate - Broken Pieces (Max Grahams 3rd Street Remix)
Rusch & Murray- Epic (Original Mix)
Menno de Jong - Guanxi (Original Mix)
ALT+F4 - ALT+F4 (Original Version)
Brian Eno An Ending Ascent Leama Moor remix

I doubt you will like any of them though :op

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

I've got so many releases on the Platipus label I'll go through them and pick some of the later ones out.

TIM wrote:

thanks. will check those out when i have a chance

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

Just because something is labeled by those that don't know any better, doesn't change what genre the release really is which was Dream House as you correctly stated. The fact that it got released on the Platipus label probably caused some of the confusion, despite the fact that Platipus don't just release Trance records.

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

When I get a chance I will try a put up some samples of more resent tracks, that are more like the earlier Trance you know.

TIM wrote:

ok:)

ballmouse wrote:

Yes it wasn't trance, but the blueprint for the newer "big euphoric long breakdown" trance songs was certainly there (if I remember the song correctly) and producers have capitalized/cashed in on that since then (but correct me if I am wrong about this).

djfrankiebones wrote:

Robert Miles - Children

Written for all the Italian ravers who didn't make it home from the party, crashing fatal in car wrecks. This is a true story.
The press got hold of that and it became one of the major factors of the genre to be held in the light.

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

There isn't actually a breakdown in Children, in the Dream version that had the piano intro once the kick drum starts it continues with a straight 4/4 beat right through. The original version that uses a guitar instead of the piano does have a breakdown in it, but that wasn't the version that was hammered to death.

ballmouse wrote:

I stand corrected. I just listened to it and I guess there is no long breakdown. But I do think the long intro, catchy melody, synth pads, and style in general is very comparable to that of the newer trance music.

djfrankiebones wrote:

You want to fall out of you chair?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9KnuJZkBjg

Guru Josh.

37,500,000 views.

Of a 2008 remix of a 1990 track.

Strange days for sure.

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

The bird in that video had the right idea smashing the TV set up, it's just a shame it wasn't the first thing she did then we could have had an extra two minutes of her getting naked.

djerome wrote:

thats for sure

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

I think the fact that it was the lead off tune on the M.O.S. Trance Nation Cd has helped to blur it's identity, even though that was released 4 years after the original DBX release of Children. If it says it's trance on the cover then it must be true, which is even stranger considering that the last track is Future Sound Of London - Papua New Guinea (Original 12'' Mix).

djfrankiebones wrote:

DBX being the Italian Indie Label and not Dan Bell, People.

djfrankiebones wrote:

We ran a club in Long Island called Caffeine. It was opened from 1991-1997. It was weekly and the first actual venue which rotated DJ's from day one. Caffeine was all about trance right from the start. But back in those days, E was plenty and the sound was new.
Harthouse made many a good tune. (FFS, That new Beltram is a monster)

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

Who's Dan Bell :op

Nebula42 wrote:

Sometimes I wish I was born 15 years earlier to experience the old school parties. The biggest thing my area has right now is the Hallucination Label, the label(DJ Monk) actually hosts decent parties a few times a year, even though the majority of the music is shit. I should get away from Florida or start something here.

djfrankiebones wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/artist/Daniel+Bell?anv=Dan+Bell

doors wrote:

I am sure you know this: DBX - Losing Control
wicked tune

sea.envy wrote:

edit: my post didn't post right. anjunabeats is still shit though.

sea.envy wrote:

anjunabeats is shit. --- notice the period

i lost all taste for trance after the hooj golden years. after 01 things took a nosedive. i'd say it was commercialized around 98 and yeah, reached its peak around the turn of the millennium. this is coming from me, who still likes trance. there is a lot of tech-trance that still blows me away today, and occasionally there are the odd 'epic' tracks that are worthy of respect, but even then it is usually written by someone who writes 50 songs a month and gets lucky that a particular combination of the same sounds just happen to work out.

yes the brilliant, new (at the time) trance days of yore are sadly over. i regularly play my frankfurt beat and labworks records all the time still.

The Jeyênne - Das Nippel. one of my all time favorite tracks evar. i didn't really get hardcore into electronic music till about 97, so i didn't really get to experience the whole 'trance-experience', and my knowledge base consists solely of my strong efforts to dig into it. it was well worth doing so.

i'm pretty sure that E and money is the only reason that trance still exists today. you can just tell that the current producers just don't really care (for the most part).

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

Yeah I was only joking about not knowing who he is ;o)

Plastic_Demons_4_U wrote:

I don't agree but then that's one of the great things about being an individual, I still take drugs as well so that makes my own opinion even more personal.

spoons wrote:

Easy one!

Ecstacy of course!

Of all the genres, trance is more enhanced by E! People talked about their experiences in trance clubs so the word spread.

IntoLSD wrote:

Just blame Paul Oakenfold and Tiesto for being self-proclaiming trance gods and then blame all the sheep that actually bought into it.

Alexis_Nembrode wrote:

thats not all...they have large backs when it comes to blaming the trance quality. Oakenfold just wants to satisfy his wallet and the kids who like him. Tiesto is just loved by some kids that think that trance is bashed melodies with cheap beats. The problem is also of the good quality trance artists that are lacking a lot of things these last years. Things such as inspiration, new sounds, new vision...whatever...
Blaming the bad guys is the easy way to se things...there's always been the good music and the bad music...so, its not Tiesto or oakenfold...

EMD645 wrote:

The cheese boundary got crossed far too many times. What happened to trance in the late 90's happened to new-wave in the mid 80's.

cerebral wrote:

So basically, the bad trance artists are still bad, but also the good ones are now also bad. I feel very positive about this scene! ;)

But yeah, there hasnt been anything good for a long time.

fabriknos wrote:

Trance has a very interesting history. "oldschool trance" is my favorite style of electronic music, I'm not entirely sure why, but I feel it's because the older stuff has a certain honesty and innocence, as producers were coming to grips with all the new technology, and harnessing it an emotional yet otherworldly way for the first time.

MFS had to be the first outlet for this music. Cosmic Baby and Mijk van Dijk have to be credited for so much of what came later. Without them there would have been no Paul van Dyk, no Paul Oakenfold, no Sasha. They were the true innovators in a time when breakbeat and sample-based rave was king. Their simple yet elegant melodies changed dance music forever. We finally had chord progressions, and "movements" in the songs. Not just a mindless breakdown, movie sample, and hoover synth anymore. This was real brain music.

Then came Harthouse and Eye Q. Sven, the mastermind of German techno, realized what was happening around him in Dorian Gray and other areas and capitalized on it better than any person before or after him. Because of his tireless work, his 16 hour DJ sets and his complete love and dedication to this new sound, he helped catapult it into commercial success. He is not the only person to thank for those labels, though - do not forget Matthias Hoffman (Cygnus X / Brainchild), Ralf Hildenbeutel (Earth Nation / Odysee of Noises), and Heinz Roth (the real business mastermind who managed Sven's first project O.F.F. - Organization For Fun). Together, with frequent contributors Oliver Bondzio (Hardfloor), Pascal Dardoufas (Pascal FEOS / Resistance D / Aural Float), and Steffan Britzke (Stevie B-Zet / Astral Pilot), Harthouse and Eye Q dominated the German party scene and quickly spread all throughout Europe, Russia, and the US. These men were able to create both incredibly intricate and detailed music yet with a certain honesty than only a "first expedition" can bring.

Then we have to move onto the God of Trance, Oliver Lieb. I don't know his whole history, but I have a feeling that during the early 90s when he saw what Sven and boys were doing, he was influenced a great deal by that sound and began an offshoot, which I would call "tech trance." Instead of just pretty melody and big pads, he injected a decidedly "sci-fi" sound that involved darker elements and much more mechanical, techno-influenced percussion. It was his fascination with this concept that really made Superstition Records shine. Eventually, his sound shifted from the 15-minute epic ambient-trance productions into more dancefloor oriented, harder and progressive sounds, which must have influenced Paul van Dyk.

Mentions must go out to Paul van Dyk, who was Cosmic Baby's studio partner and student for some time. Thanks to Cosmic Baby's knowledge of melody and orchestration, PvD was probably the one of the first "progressive trance" artists in the sense that the more atmospheric, ambient elements of his peers were discarded in favor of more powerful melody and percussion. In 1993, PvD released the now-seminal X-Mix 1 compilation which captured the sound of his MFS label mates. This mix, while not hugely successful in the commercial sense, was really the beginning of what was to become commercial trance. It signaled the beginning of the endless string of trance comps that would follow. While some people do not like this mix for all the pitch shifting going on, the tracklisting is flawless and really shows how early trance was becoming "bigger" and more progressive (Love Stimulation being a huge transitional song). I think after X-Mix 1, and all the preceeding Eye Q, MFS and Harthouse material, trance was bursting at the seams.

Enter Paul Oakenfold, a dabbler in goa trance and rising star in London. He was no stranger to trance and I think alot of people today forget the fact that he organized several clubnights and parties to promote this sound and he was very active in importing and distributing this music. In in the mid 90s he released the now infamous The Goa Mix and A Voyage Into Trance, both capitalizing on the growing goa-trance sound from India and Israel. However, he really found his niche with that progressive, catchy trance that Germany was pumping out with Paul van Dyk at the helm. I think it was because of PvD that Oakenfold found his place in the music world. Oakenfold's own music was not very good, but his mixing was considered quite good back then and he really pushed forward that progressive trance sound. Sasha, Digweed, and all the other familiar names came shortly after, but I think it was Oakie at the forefront in those times. No I really do not think he should be getting paid tens of thousands of dollars for a gig, and I think everything he has been associated with over the last decade has been weak. But don't forget the older history he has.

Robert Miles' "Children" and other cheap, simplistic "epic trance" such as that from ATB, Darude, Chicane and so forth pushed the sound over the edge into pure club territory. Gone were the mindbending sounds, intricate effects and classical melodies. Instead, the cheap thrills of loud, strong and epic production took over and trance as we know it was dead. I would put this year somewhere around 1997. Because in 1996 you still had some fantastic music coming out from Oliver Lieb, Salt Tank, Juno Reactor, etc. But in 97 I really think the original innocence, passion and exploration of trance was lost, and never really to be discovered again. We can't really blame one person, or one label... it was kind of inevitable, after the big guns like Oakie and PvD and Sasha started playing to stadium crowds and leaving the Eye Q records at home. I don't hate any of them for it, but certainly, you cannot say that after 1996, trance got better. Anyone who thinks that just didn't experience the earlier stuff, or still hasn't discovered it.

Today, there is pretty much nothing similar between "oldschool trance" and today's trance, except for the same 4 on the floor beat and tempo. Gone are the playful melodies, the soft pads, the delicate production. Now replaced with huge breakdowns, unnecessary vocals, stolen sounds from electro-house records, synth presets, and a desire only to be mixed into the next record instead of standing on its own as a work of art. Trance has died a very ugly, and long death. Even the old stars like Cygnus X, Sven Vath, Cosmic Baby and Mijk van Dijk can't bear to make music like that anymore. They moved on with everyone else, which is sad, because they were some of the best at stirring up emotions in us and bringing us on a journey that we would never forget. The cheap, loud trance of today doesn't start a journey... it just beatmatches into the next track.

Well, we can always revisit the old days instead of being bitter about the new ones. That's what the When Trance Was Good forum is all about, what my mixes are all about and why there are so many likeminded people on Discogs sharing music and memories.

sea.envy wrote:

dood, i don't think i've met anyone in real life or over the net who has shared this exact same feeling concerning trance music. i love trance, but i mean the exact shit you are talking about, not this "oooh my E feels so good" stuff. i get looked at like a 'newb' by the 'cool djs' when i say that i like trance, but i've been around just barely long enough to know what real trance was all about.

eh, maybe that didn't come out right. i totally agree with you is what i'm trying to say, and in that regard it doesn't happen often that someone agrees with 'us'.

Tkon wrote:

Well fuck me if only i had a time machine i'd go back and kill both them tossers so them other 3 tossers wouldnt be.Most 'trance' (wasnt it just techno back in 92 -93 till someone decided to call it that shit name) is shit,older techno from early 90's was good till the likes of cosmic baby got a hold of it and in turn spawned that wanker Tiesto and his ilk.I'm obviously gonna get a bollockin from you so called trance lovers but thats fine,you stick with your childish cheese lmfao.You will grow up some day believe me and see the error of your ways and wonder 'how the fuck did i listen to that shite'.

fabriknos wrote:

haha well Tkon i respect everyones opinion so you're not going to get a rise out of me. i think the three I mentioned, as well as Tiesto, are very bad representations of what "trance" means to me and in no way do i credit them with creating the good stuff, this thread was about how trance got commercial, so they have to be mentioned because they were part of that process. you can bash all trance music if you'd like, but you'll just get ignored here ;)

Tkon wrote:

I'm not bashing all 'trance',i was around and djing at the time and for years previous.I just dont see why its called trance,i never have tbh,its techno to me pure and simple and the stuff around 92 - 95 was really good,i have some of it, but that period from 93 on was where all the crazy new names started for music that had already been around till this day where we have so many dumb names ive lost count.I mean where will it end,subgenre upon subgenre its just ridiculous.There really hasnt been anything fresh or new made in a long time so i dont see why new names keep popping up.For me that would be 1 reason for the commercialisation of all electronic music as it seemed the kids could just throw a new name onto what they like and hey presto its 'new' and ready for the masses.

fabriknos wrote:

oh i see you're bitter about the terminology... haha i hear you brother. i'm tired of all the subgenre names too especially the really unnecessary ones like "progressive psy"... but that shit will never end people have to categorize everything. well that's good at least that you like the 92-95 stuff, that's my favorite period as well, at least for "trance." yes back then it was all called one thing but i guess music has to move on and keep splitting apart for it to create new sounds and ideas.

abracadabra-1 wrote:

There has never been good trance.

Topic locked

Tkon wrote:

I know what your saying but unfortunately those splitting apart and trying to create new sounds and ideas are failing miserably.I really want to hear new stuff but its all just rehashed and stale.And b4 anyone starts bombarding me with tunes they think are new sounding please dont i've heard it all believe me.When i say new i mean as if an alien came down and stuck his music player on and played shit no human ear has ever heard,thats what i want cos human music has gone so stale and boring for me.

Tkon wrote:

Thats somewhat my point,trance to me is the cheesy shite that teens so love,stuff from 1992 - 95 ish was Techno.

abracadabra-1 wrote:

Tkon I totally agree.

I been lazy lately so now I'm gonna up a couple of tunes to my youtube, check in with you later to see if you like em, most definitely not trance.

Tkon wrote:

Okey dokey ;) Let me know m8 ok :))

abracadabra-1 wrote:

One up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjpGBFtcab0

TEKNONUTTER wrote:

Personally stopped listening to trance even earlier than others have mentioned. 1993 is the cut off point for me, when it was still part of techno & still was regarded as techno back in the day. Even then, it was one my least favourite electronic styles prominent at the time (second worst to happy hardcore & jungle bollox). It currently is my worst choice of music & as far as I'm concerned always had that pop/mass appeal, just not as commercialized back then.

I'm not saying all trance was bad, but there was some blinding techno, hard techno, detroit, deep house, acid, acid techno, experimental, ambient, hardcore, bass n bleep, industrial, breaks etc between the years 90-94 to choose from before resorting to trance. (And I know I'll get slated for this even by techno heads), but before anyone else mentions 'Hardtrance Acperience', please don't, one of the most overrated tracks ever imo. Wasn't really a fan of it then & cringe when I hear it now, there was way better on Harthouse imo.

I've always liked a bit of grit, funk, nastiness, deepness, darkness in my electronic music. Trance is now just too polished for my liking, if I want smooth, I might as well listen to soul, and I don't want to do that ;P ;0)

TEKNONUTTER wrote:

I think also the big name european djs such as Sven Vath for example promoting the sound from germany & playing all over the place helped the commercialisation along.

I remember one night in early 94, when I went down to Turnmills with a few mates. I think the night was 'Inner Visions' DJ Aztek playing some serious techno tunage (all styles). Followed by a guest appearance by Sven Vath. I remember talking to some german & dutch visitors both outside in the queue & inside the premises & they were jumping for join for their "tttrrrraaaaance". "Ide caaan't wait", "ya like ya trance aswell?" "Can't believe you brits like it too, great german sound, ooh.."

I was so glad when Sven Vath decided to switch to techno & hardcore after half an hour of "oakenfold style" trance nearly sent the crowd to sleep. You should've seen the tourist's faces, completely gutted lol :)

Unfortunately, a year or so later, that particular sound was all over the place :(

TEKNONUTTER wrote:

I don't believe that for a second. I think 'E' reacts to what you become in tune to, what tickles that person specifically, it's all about the individual. If I'd heard a trance tune back then it would dub down my buzz, nowadays it'll probably kill my buzz off completely, that's if I was still popping those little buggers..

Alexis_Nembrode wrote:

lolol,not exacly...but close. The old trance artists, if they are still making music, are now lacking inspiration, or changed their style. Hence Sven Vath, Dance 2 Trance, Salt Tank, Cosmic Baby, Microglobe, Resistance D, Juno Reactor, Cygnus X, etc etc..
They dont to Trance no more for a whole different number of reasons...not that they got bad...

eicHel wrote:

read "kulturindustrie" by adorno. :)

TIM wrote:

In a way there isn't trance as genre but the people invoved in 1991/1992 rave wanted to be different.


Correct me I'm wrong but in 1991/1992 in europe you guys called it rave. In america because rave was not totally big it was called Techno.

Rave music is far from what fabriknos is saying is trance.

I'm from los angeles.
Reason why I think this is in 1992 I met some girls in Florida that were from UK. They said "do you know rave music!?". I said "no, play me some". They played some music and they said "this is rave!". I said "oh yeah, I listen to techno". I boned that chick on the beach btw:)

Nobody really knew "raving" out in america until trance was already evolved imo.


Trance is an adjective and should have never been truly a genre.


As I get older I would never want to go to a dance club and hear trance or even my favorite ambient trance tracks but to hear them on a nice sound system would be nice. Clearly not to dance to. It has no funk or much sex appeal. I would rather hear house or electro on dancefloor. Shake that ass!

Trance music is really for home listening. To escape to the stars and out of the world reality. That's about as hippie as I can be;)

Ambient music is that for me too.

Acperience is shit indeed. I have the Hardfloor TB 1993 cd in my car that has that song on it by coincidence in my car. That songs gets skipped everytime. I got straight to 'AM trip'. If you know that song you know my tastes. Mid tempo ambient techno.


Yes its all techno music.

Subgenres are dumb but they do help people discern between or relate to what you are talking about. In a way subgenres just help the hardcore music likers stay more exact on likes than from the masses view I suppose.

Nick_G wrote:

Have you ever heard any Psychick Warriors Ov Gaia abracadabra?

TIM wrote:

Yeah really. Astralasia's first 2 records also, Magic Eye Records.

Youtube Violet Force - Planet E abracadabra

Nick_G wrote:

Here's a couple of good ones:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=khs-Cj61jOg
Detune - Flying Area (Pod Communication/Rising High)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuxt_nUODEI
Ongaku - Mihon #3 (Pod Communication/Rising High)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEmPOw6ZlgY
Air Liquide - Liquid Men With Liquid Hearts (Blue)

The Nights Of Pan - A Night On E (Where Nightmares Never End) (MFS) (no Youtubes for this one unfortunately)

Psychick Warriors Ov Gaia - Maenad 12in (as above)

TIM wrote:

PWOG - maenad ep for example

TIM wrote:

Whoops! You got me before I posted it. Lol

abracadabra-1 wrote:

Yes, I saw them live at a megadog in the brixton academy back in 93 or 94 along with Eat Static and System 7, I thought Eat Static were better on the night tbh, but wasn't rally blown away by any of the acts all that much either.

Except one DJ who played some wicked Acid/Techno between the live sets.

It was the year that they banned the decent sound systems from glastonbury , I remember the guys made an announcement at the end of the show that they'd been canceled from the festival.

That was a surreal time there, all these mad light and laser shows going off in the middle of the night, but no music, totally trippy.

Well except for the guy at the kebab stand who had a tape deck and was playing mix tapes through the nights, funny as fuck to see the crusties raving like loonies around his van.

TIM wrote:

well, there we have it. you know everything

abracadabra-1 wrote:

Just because I happened to catch a live show you say that?
Do you get out much?

stormcore wrote:

I think the commercialization started in 1996 with Mayday X and then passed with Mayday hymn Sonic Empire, in 1997 a lot of producers changed their style.

Alexis_Nembrode wrote:

the really significant change ocurred at the end of 98 i think... Or at least i remember a whole bunch of trance tunes that sounded all the same...with the same synth pad, similar melodies...and these names were all commin up...Yves Deruyter, Dirk Dierickx, Vincent de Moor, Benno E Goeij, Tiesto, Ferry Corsten...

Nick_G wrote:

I'm going to keep saying this, but those producers do not produce 'trance'. It may be called that but trance is an altered state of consciousness that can be induced by repetition and hypnotic music. IMO Basic Channel, acid house, early Plus 8, Michael Nyman, Philip Glass, etc has more rights to be called 'trance'.

Predictable, bland, build-up, breakdown, one-note bassline and frankly horrible productions do NOT equal trance in my book. Why people insist on giving it such a name is completely beyond my comprehension.

TEKNONUTTER wrote:

I can't completely pin-point what caused the commercialisation of this music, but I could tell WHEN it was commercialised. When my older, cheesy ass, bimbo of a sister started playing it everytime I was round at her place :( That's when it dawned on me, I thought this music was shite, now I know it's shite lol;P

Tkon wrote:

LMAO yeah that'll do it alright hahaha,i also think that those of us who were around back in 87 - 93 were of a different generation.From 95 ish on it was then the new teens who started getting into dance.Don't forget the old thing of your kids not being into their parents music cos its not 'cool'.I'm sure that had a lot to do with the renaming of old music to make it feel like it was theirs and different from their older siblings or parents music.But really can anyone see those into that shite cheese being on here like us in 20 years reminiscing about it.I doubt that very much cos in the end crap music isnt remembered fondly by anyone and those into it now by the time they are nearly 40 like me will look back with embarrassment,like seeing an old photo of yourself with the dodgiest clothes and haircut possible,do you really want to share that with the world ? ;)

djfrankiebones wrote:

Hell Yeah, fam. My Mullet ruled the world and everyone should know it...teh lulz....

TIM wrote:

no, because you saw them out once, you think they are dissmisable and wont check out anything we are recommending.

no, i dont get out much.

robsol wrote:

Cheese production caused the commercialization of trance, maybe there is a key beer commercial we can point to that did it, but I don't know which one it is. In the US the Chemical Brothers plays under Budweiser commercials at the moment, gotta love that.

But I cringe when I hear shit from tidy trax and people refer to it as trance... or some of pete tongs absolute piss. I can't even imagine how it is in the UK right now, you have cell phone ring tones and elevator music of trance classics perpetrating your everyday life, LOL, fuck that. The US hasn't gone there yet but look how fucking pathetic our music scene is here, no DJ or producer gets due credit in this dumb ass industry. MTV is a complete joke out here too, it's become reality TV and shit rap.

As for Robert Miles being singled out, I can't believe that because he left it all behind when he saw the direction it was going. You don't see him finger-banging the air everytime he drops a record in the mix like Frankie Wild, errr excuse me, I meant Paul Oakenfold. Now he does weird covered in mud, world beat, ambient stuff. I remember in 2002 he played at a huge party in LA and all these candy raving retards wanted to hear him through down Children, he played just off-the-wall shit and they were all heart broken. He honestly should have furthered his set by doing some performance art and pissed on them from the top of the speaker stack.

OMG, I just wiki'ed Robert Miles:

In 1994, Miles wrote his most famous dream house work, titled "Children".

... dream fucking house!!! who is the cunt that coined that phrase, I'm sorry but if anyone had come into the record store I'd worked at and asked for the latest in dream house... wow, I would have just laughed my ass off. Disclaimer: I was never a record store smug fuck, I hate those guys. But it remind me of the asshole that coined the phrase "electronica", what the fuck, forty years late on that, yeah, when did theremins & moog synthesizers come out?

djfrankiebones wrote:

I think the GZA said it best when he said:

TOMMY ain't my motherfuckin' BOY
When he fake moves on a nigga you employ
Well I'll EMIRGE off ya set, now ya know God damn
I show LIVIN LARGE niggaz how to flip a DEF JAM
And RUFF up the motherfuckin' HOUSE
Cause I smother you COLD CHILLIN' mother fuckers are still WARNER BROTHERS
I'm RUTHLESS my clan don't have to act wild
That shit is JIVE, an old SLEEPING BAG/PROFILE
This soft comedian rap shit ain't the rough witty
On the reel to reel it wasn't from a TUFF CITY
Niggas be game, thinking that they lyrical surgeons
They know their mics are formed at VIRGIN
And if you ain't boned a mic you couldn't hurt a bee
That's like going to Venus driving a MERCURY
The CAPITOL of this rugged slang, is WU-TANG
Witty Unpredictable Talent And Natural Game
I DEATH ROW an MC with mic cables
The EPIC is at a RUSH ASSOCIATED LABELS
From EASTWEST to ATCO, I bring it to a NEXT PLATEAU
But I keep it phat though
Yo, I'm hittin' batters up with the WILD PITCH style
I even show an UPTOWN/MCA style
Who thought he saw me on 4TH & BROADWAY
But I was out on the ISLAND, bombing MC's all day
My PRIORITY is that I'm FIRST PRIORITY
I bone the secret out a bitch in a sorority
So look out for A&M, the abbot and the master
Breakin' down your PENDULUM
As I fiend MC's out with a blow that'll numb the
a-ppendix, I'm holdin more more weight than COLUMBIA
Index INTERSCOPE, we RCA. clan
That's comin' with a plan to free a
slave of a mental death MC don't panic
Throw that A&R nigga off the boat in the ATLANTIC
Now who's the BAD BOY character, not from ARISTA
But firin' weapons released on GEFFEN
So duck as I struck with the soul of MOTOWN
While CENTRAL BROADCASTING SYSTEMS are slowed down
You're Dirty, like that Bastard
It's gettin drastic

Not that hip hop has anything to do with trance....

Except the Shawn carter edition Reeboks they could not sell and turned them into Tiesto editions, LOL.

Alexis_Nembrode wrote:

tottaly quoted