TheTreeTribe wrote:

It has recently come to my attention that one of my favourite labels is in a spot of trouble. Yes I'm talking about Twisted Records, home to Hallucinogen and Shpongle. Here is a post from Simon Posford regarding the new Shpongle album on the Twisted Forums ( http://www.twistedmusic.com/fo...read/3674/P15/#17484 ):

-----
So some fucker has released the album on the internet already…. thanks a lot, whoever it was… Maybe twisted will still recoup, maybe not… all i know is that we are teetering on bankruptcy, and are seeking deals elsewhere…. the 12 loyal fans on this forum are not enough to sustain a record label…. How much do you think Twisted has in the bank account? Have a guess? More than $10,000 ? More than $20,000 ? Well it is actually less than $1,000….. Raj and i haven’t even been paid our advance for this album…. All the artists on twisted are seeking deals with other labels now… We can’t pay a label manager, and we can’t pay the artists…. always putting our hope in ‘just ONE more release’.... “We’ll be ok if the DVD sells”....“Surely the Shpongle CD will sell, right?”


...And to everyone else, please don’t bother reviewing tracks that you have downloaded… it’s not fair… we all know the huge disparity in quality between stuff that gets posted on the net….

This sucks, for Twisted, for myself and Raj who have spent 3 years working on the album….

Just as i started looking around and posting on this forum again, i remembered why i shouldn’t bother….

I’m outta here… Soon to be followed by Younger Brother and probably Twisted…

Enjoy.

-----

Can we all please try to keep the label alive ? Perhaps now is the time to order that CD you've been wanting to but haven't got around to yet.....

birdpoop wrote:

It's really sad... that Simon Posford resorts to making posts like that on his website.

First of all, Twisted Records is a more well known and commercial label than most others in psytrance and chillout. I don't see any other labels acting like that. I'm sure Twisted sells a lot of CDs and merchandise. There are tons of Shpongle fan kids that don't listen to any other psytrance, chillout, and have never even heard of goa trance before.

Second, I wonder how they can possibly have under $1000 when they charge 100,000euros for a live concert. I find that impossible to believe. Maybe the Twisted bank account is completely separate from the Shpongle one, or something.

Third, he is making a big deal out of something that always happens since at least 5 years ago: mp3s of popular new releases quickly being distributed on the internet. Every label has to deal with this and it's nothing new. It happened with the last few Twisted albums too. It's mostly their own fault for handing out so many promos which are even available on eBay before the release date.

Here is another quote from Simon talking about his new Shpongle album in the same topic. Keep in mind this album was finished over 2 months ago and this post was made yesterday. :-S

birdpoop wrote:

Oh, one more thing: the mp3s that were leaked are in 320kbps as far as I can see. There is definitely no audible difference between them and the original WAVEs, but I see Simon is creating dumb rumors of a "huge disparity in quality". Of course in the event that the leaked mp3s really weren't good enough, he could always release a better version himself that he feels does justice to the music.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

birdpoop, sounds to me like you have an axe to grind with Simon and the Crew ? anything we should know about ?

AFAIK, the 100,000 euros that you refer to is maybe a price quoted, not a price paid for Shpongle live. It has also only been done in Japan, Russia, and Ozora (Ozora I know for a fact, the promoters are good friends of Simon's so I doubt they'd pay 100,000 euros).

You're right in saying that Twisted is among the more well known and "commercial" labels in the genre, but you really think they earn enough to pay all their bills and live comfortable lives simply selling a few 100 or even 1000 CDs a year ?

And as far as the leak goes, it wasn't leaked from promos distributed by Twisted, but by some geezer in the pressing plant.


PLEASE SUPPORT THIS LABEL !


PS. I love your nickname/username birdpoop! Always brings a smile to my face :)

birdpoop wrote:

Interesting. How do you know that's where it leaked from?

Anyways, there are a lot of labels that probably don't even sell 100 copies of their CDs. It's crazy. There's lots of releases not even making it onto discogs, which means collectors don't even buy them. Either way, begging in public for support seems a little pathetic to me. I'd rather support a smaller label that releases music I really enjoy (Shpongle is hardly related to psy or ambient at all now).

TheTreeTribe wrote:

Its not begging. Its venting his frustrations on piracy and giving everyone an overall picture of how Twisted is doing as a label.

i know of the leak through a twisted insider.

inexpressible wrote:

birdpoop, are you eiko?

303 wrote:

hmmm... maybe 10,000 is more real

Infected and GMS had a price of around 10k-12k and they are divas

Josephschembri wrote:

Rather: birdpoop, you are eiko

draeke wrote:

This is really sad, pressing plant assholes, it is really shameful.

But anyway it would have been a matter of weeks to be leaked out, as we all know someone attending the live would have bought and ripped the disc anyway.

I will of course buy the album as many loyal fans will do on the concert event, so he should be thinking that piracy has always existed, but still sucks.

I hope the live and the dj sets will help them to keep on going and surely will cross my fingers for them.

Record label business is really harder and harder...

inexpressible wrote:

it really is a shame.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

what is "eiko" ???

inexpressible wrote:

eiko is a user who's been trolling discogs' forums for quite some time now (mostly the ambient forum afaik). nik banned his different aliases, but he always came back with new accounts. birdpoop was another alias, and i wouldn't be surprised if there are even more.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

i see.. i suspect he writes under the name "okyup" on the Twisted forum. Same general degenrate line of thought....

inexpressible wrote:

yep, could be.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

okyup writes:

It’s funny how this works.

In reality there are hundreds of labels out there that aren’t 1/100th as commercial or well known as Twisted Records. Yet they have the dignity not to complain publicly about their monetary situation to try and rally support. It’s too bad people are rushing to support Twisted but I’m sure they will continue to download everything else as usual.

----

Hallucinogen writes:

Wow - what an insight into a mean-spirited mind!! Too bad that fans of a label are rushing to support the music they love? Maybe you never really got into music as much as i did, or some of the other people here… i am truly passionate about the bands i love…

To me what’s funny is that i am curious about what peculiar kind of turd would sign up to a forum of a band they didn’t like, on a label they don’t like, and start discussing an album they don’t like…. this is really the most interesting thing about you…. It’s really extraordinarily lame behaviour… Hands up all those who have actually done this??
Okyup i can only guess you feel some kind of resentment towards us that you needs airing… maybe i have wronged you in the past?
Or maybe it’s jealousy…. because i can certainly see no other reason why a normal person with a life and things to do n stuff, would bother at all with a label they’re not interested in… I don’t get it… perhaps you can explain why you’re here, slagging us off? I know i have never felt the urge to take the time to join xxxxx’s forum and show my indifference tinged with simmering resentment to their artists…..“Hey, just thought i’d sign up to tell you that your album is boring!”. Rather like the people that write in to TV shows to complain… who does that? I guess i am getting an idea now wink ... the TV does have an ‘Off’ switch you know - if you don’t like it just ignore it…. why don’t you use your venom to rally against a REAL injustice in the world?
Also you are clearly pissing off the fans… it’s a bit like crashing someone’s party, throwing up on the guests, calling the host’s wife a whore and refusing to leave… except that would be braver, (and certainly more entertaining!) because you wouldn’t just be cowardly hiding anonymously behind your computer….

As for “Do some more shows to make money”, I’m not going to show you the budget sheet, but the last roundhouse show is what broke the bank…. it was a one-off show, we didn’t know if we’d ever do it again, so we wanted to make it something to remember, hence we spent £35,000 on lights… and a lot recording it for the DVD… we wanted to do something special for the FANS, in the same way that we host twistedsessions.com, allowing them to set up online stores, with free hosting and promote and sell their own music to people with similar tastes…
So we thought ‘at least the DVD will make back the money we lost on the roundhouse’ - hopefully it will….. and yes, how one can sell out the roundhouse and still lose money i find a little confusing too, quite honestly…. but all the musicians were well paid, and all the lighting crew, but twisted made a big loss….
Then we did Moscow - again, we paid all the band, but twisted didn’t make any money from it… why should we? We weren’t the promoter!
Australia… well this proves you are as stupid as you seem to judge everyone else here to be… or you don’t take as much interest in the other forums as you do in the twisted one (!) because that was a ridiculous offer by a deranged promoter who ripped off thousands of people… and if someone says “ok i’ll pay you 100,000 euros “... of course i would say yes! In fact, let’s try it now: Okyup i’ll pay you 100,000 euros to go and get a life right now….(that might be a little more challenging than a full shpongle show, i admit… but i’ll sign a contract promising 20 grand up front if you like?) As history shows, we never saw a penny, there was no show, the promoter sold a load of tickets and fled with people’s money…. apalling behaviour.
So that brings us to this year’s shows at the roundhouse…. 2 sellout shows will make how much profit for the label? have a guess? I’ll tell you, it’s £8000…. I showed the budget to a manager who ran island records for 10 years and asked how this is possible, and he replied that we are paying the musicians too much, and spending a lot on production….. which is fine by me - the musicians are all amazing, i am in awe, and i want them to be paid well because they work hard… they certainly wouldn’t have time to post in forums of bands they don’t like! I mean, after all… they are rational, compassionate, loving human beings, with enough dedication and passion to spend their lives mastering their instruments and bringing happiness to thousands of people….
There is nothing clever or interesting about being a troll…. but i understand some people need the attention… you’ve had it now…
Luckily i see the forum has an ‘ignore’ button next to everyone’s name… i never used it before, but let’s see if it works! I suggest anyone else who finds Okyup a bit of an irritating loser to do the same…..

inexpressible wrote:

brief and to the point :D

Josephschembri wrote:

It's eiko for sure. I'm sure this guy is very lonely.

Dolmot wrote:

One of the reasons for banning was constantly advocating piracy and file trading.

I didn't bother pointing out this reincarnation, because he wasn't a total twat this time...until now. (Come on, a new user signs up, uploads his 800 album goa mp3 "collection", joins goa & ambient forums and instantly starts bitching like he'd always been there. Who could it be? What a mystery!)

There are about a dozen of his sock puppets on Psynews too. Quite obviously forum posting isn't the only activity where his only friend is his own hand.

Now, back to the point. Yeah, the current state of the scene is a bit sad. Even celebrated Suntrip CDs are pressed in batches of 1000. Vastly more people just download the stuff with made up excuses. "I'm helping to advertise, others will pay.", "There's one bad track on this CD so I wouldn't have bought it." etc. As for leaking, well it has always been there, but today people are awfully shameless about posting full tracks on Youtube, sharing sites and such. A small label (which in this genre means any label) cannot afford a hunting & takedown squad so the free downloads remain online. The really sad bit is that when googling for an artist, I have to skip over three pages of mp3 blogs and Russian "shops" to find a legit source.

It must be infinitely frustrating to those people who actually do something. In the digital world it's damn hard to reward your buying customers without a million freeloaders buzzing around.

Anyway, Twisted CDs are currently £7.49 (~8.30e) each in their online store. I have an order in for new Shpongle and a pile of others, regardless of any "begging posts". It's a real bargain for the widely praised titles we all know.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

I apologize for the compliment and take it back.. I realize now that is only what you have in place of a brain.

Ooze wrote:

This is distressing news for sure and I wish the label and artists all the luck at pulling through.
I will add that I'm REALLY looking forward to the concert on the 31st
:)

Euphobia wrote:

"Twisters & Twisterettes :

It has come to my attention that one of my favourite record labels [Twisted Records] is not in the greatest health financially. It would really help if people actually bought CDs, rather than just downloading MP3's and saying how much you like Twisted. The new Shpongle album may well be their last, and I for one, do not want that to be the case. Music piracy is inevitable in today's instant-interconnected-ipod world, but downloads should be used as a preview. If you really like an album, please go out and buy the CD to support the artists.

So in an almost appealing tone, I urge you that if you have been meaning to buy any Twisted CDs for some time, and haven't got around to it yet : now is the time !

http://www.twistedrecords.co.uk/shop/catalog/

It would be a shame if they were not around tomorrow, and if Simon was forced to lock himself in a dark room for the rest of his days because his "fans" never bought his CDs.... "

Saw this on my mail

TheTreeTribe wrote:

i guess your a member of my facebook group ! :)

i sent that out this morning.

MattMan wrote:

I really hope they can keep doing what they're doing.. It's a great direction they've taken the last 2-3 years and I'd hate to see it go elsewhere because of money.

Let's shop some twisted stuff, y'all

Ooze wrote:

Shpongle T-shirts look nice

RabidHummingbird wrote:

i totally understand where Simon P is coming from - BUT, it is HIGHLY unprofessional to reply to these posts in such negative, hateful, ways - resorting to name calling! If a post really upsets him that badly, I think the professional (and tactful) thing would be to either ignore it, or simply DELETE it! Simon ranting on and on like that is seriously on par (maturity-wise) as some 13 year old fanboy protesting the new hollywood horror remake on an imdb message board.

It sucks that he's losing money, but really (and I know I am stepping on toes here) he has been like the top goa trance producer of all time since 1995. He is lucky people still know who Hallucinogen/Shpongle IS these days, what with the thousands of goa trance artists that arguably sound identical to him (even 16 years ago this was a fact), that wind up disappearing completely after 1 or 2 releases, and maybe a few compilation tracks. He got LUCKY, because in my opinion, a lot of those flash-in-the-pan artists had ten times the creativity and ingenue that he ever has! So he really needs to grow a pair and not let every little message board post go to his head. Piracy is and always has been a problem. If he has been such a huge musician for such a long time, you'd think that this would not be news to him! I think ALL artists/bands need to expect that to happen. I mean, go to google, type in ANY album name (no matter how arcane and rare) and then type "blogspot" next to it, and I guarantee you someone has posted it to download for free! I remember you could do this 10 years ago, too! This is not some brand new kind of illegal phenomena! I remeber finding "The Lone Deranger" for download on napster the week it was released!

Ekto-Basilisk wrote:

It's funny that some people really refuse to give Simon credit for his musical prowess. Even if you don't like his sound I don't fathom how anyone can't recognize his abilities.

RabidHummingbird wrote:

i'm not saying he isn't talented. quite the contrary. What I was getting at is that he should not be profanely insulting people on his website.

TheTreeTribe wrote:

I think it has been made clear that there was only one "insultee" who is basically a troll / spammer on several forums.

Would you rather he just closed shop without letting anyone know about it ?

brainbug wrote:

i feel sorry for simon & raj. at first their new album gets leaked and now they have to argue with eiko...shit.

nonetheless i preordered the new cd and cant wait to hear it :)

DeathPosture wrote:

Horrible news.
I just preordered the CD + the DVD... which makes me feel special. =)

Pinpinkula wrote:

Can you type down any of those artist for the greater good..

gal_ wrote:

I too pre-ordered the CD and DVD as soon as I received the email notification from Twisted.

However, I notice that someone has commented on this release already as well as claiming to own it??? Considering we are experiencing postal strikes here in the UK at the moment and the fact that it's not released yet I wonder how the said reviewer got hold of their copy?...

Josephschembri wrote:

http://www.discogs.com/Shpongl...land/release/1986939

RabidHummingbird wrote:

really, its a matter of opinion, I wasnt trying to offend anyone, this is just my personal thoughts on the matter. not to say I dont like Hallucinogen (Shpongle I could live without)because I do. But I can honestly say, for example only, that most artists from Flying Rhino I personally like a lot better than Hallucinogen.