Looks like Discogs is finally doing somthing to combat scammers!

Just received this message from Discogs:

"Discogs has recently detected an increase in scammers in the Marketplace, and we’re taking action to address the issue. New sellers on Discogs will undergo a waiting period to reduce fraud attempts.

We are committed to maintaining a safe and trustworthy marketplace for independent buyers and sellers. If you see suspicious activity, please report it immediately to Discogs Support through this form.

Learn more about how to recognize fraud in our guide to best practices for buying safely on Discogs:

Safe Buying Tips

Sincerely,Discogs"

What do you ppl think? I think this is a good start but they should also create a setting that prevents ppl from selling brand new releases at egregious and greedy mark-ups until an album is actually and certainly out of print for some time. Perhaps create a cap at what you can sell certain releases for? Like you can't sell that new RSD releases for more than 10-15% more than the MSRP or something like that...

Thanks for posting.

It's a good thing the one person they sent this message to decided to share it!

massenmedium
the one person they sent this message to

um, I received it via my messages here and via email. I presumed everyone was sent it.

yea... this caught my attention lol...

curious how long the wait period is... also whether the seller wait-time applies to newly created accounts only, or like all accounts that try to sell for the first time

something something taylor swift rsd

It's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

massenmedium
It's a good thing the one person they sent this message to decided to share it!

Careful, it might be a scam.

UNKDelts
It's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

CharvelJackson
UNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

You can designate a "minimum buyer rating" for yourself as a seller, where people below that set rating (or people with no ratings at all) cannot purchase from you.

EMount91
westcoastcoryUNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

You can designate a "minimum buyer rating" for yourself as a seller, where people below that set rating (or people with no ratings at all) cannot purchase from you.

That feature does not block buyers with no feedback.

EMount91
or people with no ratings at all

Noop.

CharvelJackson
UNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

Yes.

UNKDelts
westcoastcoryUNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

Yes.

You're losing money on fees and setting yourself up for negative feedback.

CharvelJackson
UNKDeltswestcoastcoryUNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

Yes.

You're losing money on fees and setting yourself up for negative feedback.

Not sure if Discogs still does this but I had a friend get his account suspended a few year ago doing the "canceling order from sketchy new buyers" strategy.

SenorHobbes
westcoastcoryUNKDeltswestcoastcoryUNKDeltsIt's a great step in the right direction, and I'm sure they will try additional security measures. As a seller, I do not sell to new accounts: there's too much risk and very little upside.

Do you cancel the orders after they've already paid you?

Yes.

You're losing money on fees and setting yourself up for negative feedback.

Not sure if Discogs still does this but I had a friend get his account suspended a few year ago doing the "canceling order from sketchy new buyers" strategy.

It's possible. I don't know.

A waiting period is just a delay. Scammers will create accounts ahead and wait it out.
There needs to be more than that to change much of anything.

The biggest change would be instant payment (via Paypal) that will not let an order be placed until the payment is made. That would eliminate NPB and most of the scams not being covered by Paypal. Totally stops off site payments - as that seems to be the biggest scam tool, luring buyers away from payment protection.

And why would anyone want to be held to a maximum price for selling new releases. This is free market and if you don't like the price, don't buy it. You whiney f.

zontonmc
So is the new policy not working today?

Those accounts are not new. They're all.older than yours.

mandomtz
Just received this message from Discogs:

"Discogs has recently detected an increase in scammers in the Marketplace, and we’re taking action to address the issue. New sellers on Discogs will undergo a waiting period to reduce fraud attempts.

We are committed to maintaining a safe and trustworthy marketplace for independent buyers and sellers. If you see suspicious activity, please report it immediately to Discogs Support through this form.

Learn more about how to recognize fraud in our guide to best practices for buying safely on Discogs:

Safe Buying Tips

Sincerely,Discogs"

What do you ppl think? I think this is a good start but they should also create a setting that prevents ppl from selling brand new releases at egregious and greedy mark-ups until an album is actually and certainly out of print for some time. Perhaps create a cap at what you can sell certain releases for? Like you can't sell that new RSD releases for more than 10-15% more than the MSRP or something like that...

OPs suggestion is a nonstarter. We live in a capitalist society, so no one can dictate a selling price; sellers are free to set their prices, and buyers are free to set their personal budgets. Private negotiations are always part of the mix in any marketplace, but on Discogs don’t get caught striking financial deals outside the platform. (The make an offer function is real, but only on a one time basis. You can certainly ask a seller what they might take for a piece, and they can certainly let you know if they will adjust the price so you can they pay an adjusted price. But this ain’t eBay.)

The notion of manufacturer suggest markup pricing died ages ago, and anyway, it was an illusion. Concept, not a rule or statute. Record labels and distributors could operate how they wanted to, including cutting off stores’ purchasing and return allowances as they saw fit, a double whammy if any given store decided to break the holy “street date” rule.

Limiting the percentage of allowed markup in the retail world might seem logical, on paper. This would be a private business decision although if, say, Target, WalMart and Home Depot were to be caught for collusion in a price fixing scheme on their window fans, power drills, and potting soil, there might be some unfavorable legal and consumer backlash.

We’re sure not seeing too many consumer-demanded market controls these days at the gas pumps, that’s for sure; 2 weeks ago I could buy gas at about $3.29; I’m seeing $4.79 now.

But anyway, by definition, the market for collectibles - and in general, any consumer goods - is always in flux.. Someone who yanks up the price on a Taylor Swift RSD album from $30 to $130 ain’t a crook. Maybe an opportunistic dick, sure, but well within his rights as a reseller of commercial goods. The rest of us have the freedom to be outraged dicks on Reddit should we choose that option.

Okay, gotta run, someone just dropped their price on that Joe Strummer white vinyl RSD album so I need to make an offer while I can…

zontonmc
So is the new policy not working today?

How about adopting a policy of not making fake sales. You are not helping, you are creating more work for Discogs staff and you are jeopardising your main discogs account by breaking discogs rules and bringing yourself to the attention of scammers.

Do nothing else except report such accounts by Support Request and the big thread in the marketplace forum.

Also FWIW one of those accounts has already been deleted. Had you reported them via the proper channels inside of attempting ineffective vigilantism the other two might be already gone as well.

You need to stop making fake orders. You are flagging yourself up to scammers, creating more work for discogs staff and generally mudding the waters. It does not help and it does not work. If you don't stop this there's a liklihood that Discogs will stop you making orders entirely.

Also the policy is for NEW accounts. These are older accounts that appear to have been hacked. These accounts to not prove that things are not working. Indeed another one of the three accounts you linked has been deleted.

Please stop posting up accounts in this thread, do it in the relevant thread over in the marketplace forum and in support requests. And if you must make fake orders, don't make them with your main account. You are jeopardise many other user's info as well as your own.

JUST A HEADS UP TO EVERYONE AND DEVS: the new thing is the scammers are doing fake buys to get 1-2 good buyer feedback ratings, then theyre allowed to sell again.

zontonmc
https://www.discogs.com/seller/mickeywiz/profile

it appears this new "policy" has already been defeated.

yep. i think i also already reported this account. Had a bunch of stuff listed on my wantlist that were absolutely scam prices.

Donobob
The biggest change would be instant payment (via Paypal) that will not let an order be placed until the payment is made. That would eliminate NPB and most of the scams not being covered by Paypal. Totally stops off site payments - as that seems to be the biggest scam tool, luring buyers away from payment protection.

A mutual agreement to skirt the sales and transactions policy of the site is not a scam.

FredKiller
A mutual agreement to skirt the sales and transactions policy of the site is not a scam.

Indeed.

A few other other non-scams are -
1 - sellers offering items at prices higher than people want to pay but there are no more for sale elsewhere (that is a free-market economy)
2 - sellers offering multiple copies of the same album for sale (that is called a shop).
3 - "OMG. I paid too much for that record last night after one-too-many drinks" (that is called regret)

Possble scams have a few warning signs. Actual scams occur when you pay for something but it does not arrive and the seller disappears.

Donobob
The biggest change would be instant payment (via Paypal) that will not let an order be placed until the payment is made. That would eliminate NPB and most of the scams not being covered by Paypal. Totally stops off site payments - as that seems to be the biggest scam tool, luring buyers away from payment protection.

100%

I think this is a very good point. Immediate payment would put a big dent in their game.

FredKiller
A mutual agreement to skirt the sales and transactions policy of the site is not a scam.

Call it what you like but what using an engineered pretext* to persuade buyers to pay off-site for goods that the advertiser has no intention of sending is a large part of the activity we're hoping will be stopped. These are the scams we're talking about.

* the regular payment fails becuase the account is in a country where there are restrictions on receiving international payments. Initially they were saying they were in Ukraine (maybe some are / were) to play on the sympathies of buyers, which is like a confience trick or something.

Blackpapercrown
Actual scams occur when you pay for something but it does not arrive and the seller disappears.

or that high £$€ value rare original record purchase turns up as a Fake bootleg

massenmedium
Call it what you like

"Discogs has recently detected an increase in scammers in the Marketplace, and we’re taking action to address the issue."
Discogs has recently detected an increase in the dishonest actions of sellers and buyers in making agreements to skirt the sales and transactions policy of the site, supposedly to their mutual advantage, but resulting in a financial loss for the buyer, and we're taking action to address the issue because it makes us look bad.

SpareGrooves
turns up as a Fake bootleg

Fake bootlegs? Like...Bootlegging The Bootleggers?

FredKiller
supposedly to their mutual advantage

Maybe you're joking now or maybe you missed the irony when I said you can call it what you like. Well, *you* can of course.

Firsty here are no goods, or no intention of sending goods. Secondly buyers are tricked or otherwise persuaded on false grounds to pay some other way when the regular payment fails by design. And no, typically buyers are not doing it for any "advantage" other than to complete the purchase.

That's very much definitionally a scam / confidence trick.

If you personally want to categorise this organised activity as not being scams that's up to you but you're on weird (and ignorant or victim blaming) ground with that. More importanly, this is the stuff we're talking about and trying to stop and the suggestion to use "immediate payment" is a really good one with other advantages.

AI scammers will crush sites like this. They will be able to set up and manage 10s of 1000s of accounts as one person. The only way to defeat them is to charge a membership fee.

Blackpapercrown
massenmediumthe one person they sent this message toum, I received it via my messages here and via email. I presumed everyone was sent it.

+1

Still selling
https://www.discogs.com/sell/seller_feedback/angelcatrom

Woolis
The only way to defeat them is......

MASSIVE NUCLEAR RETALIATION

zontonmc
This site is what happens when people in Portland Oregon try to run a business.

LMAO

Yes they have addressed petty criminals with the same level of effectiveness.

"We sent an email so all fixed now."

https://tinyurl.com/2mafbmxb

Just a thought, but considering we have years worth of sales history for items on this site now, might it be possible to implement some system that flags up suspicious pricings for manual (and that's the important part) review? Yaknow, things that usually sells for hundreds of bucks used suddenly gets an influx of vastly underpriced new items across multiple listings from the same user?

Edit:

Or flagging up sellers who suddenly accrue a large number of negs in a short period of time - that could catch a lot more than just scammers. I know that eBay do that one.

Or flagging up accounts that start listing large volumes of items after years of inactivity?

Again - I'm stressing manual review by staff, not bot-banning people - because of course there are legitimate reasons why something like that might happen.

Breckman
Blackpapercrownmassenmediumthe one person they sent this message to um, I received it via my messages here and via email. I presumed everyone was sent it.

+1

You guys having a problem with your sarcasm detectors? :^D

Scam sellers are listing so many counterfeit copies and release information is often wrong or missing information. Discogs has become completely untrustworthy. I no longer buy or sell on here. It's sad seeing this site go to hell with scams, counterfeits, and reddit kids.

Chesty_Vulva
reddit kids.

Great name for a band!