• pyenapple over 11 years ago

    I changed this release from Maxi-Single to simply Single because it doesn't say "Maxi" anywhere on it:

    http://www.discogs.com/history?release=410338#latest

    Yet I'm being told to change it back to Maxi.

    In my mind, I'm picturing a Venn diagram. In this diagram is one big circle that says "Single" and there's a second, much smaller circle inside the first circle, and that second one is "Maxi-Single". Is that a correct mental representation? All Maxi-Singles are Singles, but not all Singles are Maxi-Singles.

    I think that this Pras "Ghetto Supastar" release isn't a Maxi (it isn't labeled as one, and is mostly just called a Single on other sites), but it is a Single.

    I'm willing to go with whatever. But I'm tired of having the "it isn't a Maxi if it doesn't say Maxi....UNLESSSSSSSS.....?" back and forth with people. Does it, in the end, all come down to individual taste?
  • Myriad over 11 years ago

    I really think that we need a clearer guideline on maxi vs. single than if it's printed on the release/a reputable source. Something like 4+ tracks = a maxi, up to 3 = a single.
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    It just gets so sticky. Single, Maxi-Single, EP...? As the lines are so blurry, it obviously behooves Discogs to have a rule, and I think that calling it a "Single" as a base is good. Then call it a "Maxi" if it says Maxi on it... as for The_Raven's suggestion: i.e., it's a Maxi simply because it's European and has remixes plus an additional non-album b-side on it... To me, that seems rather complicated and more likely to sow confusion rather than clarify and ease us into making progress. I'd love to feel like I'm on firm ground when I'm making corrections.
  • musicmann1 over 11 years ago

    Myriad
    Something like 4+ tracks = a maxi, up to 3 = a single.


    I agree. Since 3 inch CD's are seldom released these days if a disc has 4 songs it should automatically be classed as a maxi IMHO. And if there is a single version of a release with only 2 songs, a 3 song release of that same title released in the same market should also be classed as a maxi.
    I wouldn't mind if anything with more than 2 songs was classed as a maxi though unless the songs were less than a minute long or something.
  • The_Raven over 11 years ago

    [quote=musicmann1][/quote]

    Oh yes! Thats also very important. CD Single format was strictly for 3 inches CDs aka CD3. And I think it's only for 1-2 tracks, because most of 3 tracked CDs are already named as CD-Maxi Single.

    To find out if it's a CD Single or Maxi in this case it's simple. The release we are talking about has all featured versions, plus it's the most known release. CD Singles are usually rare, hard to find, often for promotional use, special etc. Many of them are country-based, like UK CD Single, well known edition in electronic music.

    It's just logic..
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    The_Raven
    It's just logic..


    I think this is the problem. It's not "just logic". We follow the Discogs Guidelines, not our personal individual ideas of how things should be. In this case, I used to agree with you. A few years ago, I'd have said that this should be labeled a Maxi-Single. However, Discogs seems pretty specific: if it doesn't say "Maxi" on it, we should adhere to the rules and not label it a Maxi. So I defer to Discogs. Why would I buck Discogs Guidelines on this?
  • ahlbomper over 11 years ago

    how many songs would it take to make it no longer a maxi, but an ep (or mini album..) ?

    what should count as different songs ?
    (not Acappella, Instrumental ? Remix ? Radio/Clean//Dirty Version ? short/long version ?...)
  • The_Raven over 11 years ago

    Well the problem we are talking about it's logic, but discogs guidelines? - definitely not.

    Discogs guidelines are for general information. Sometimes you must use your own common sense to find right solution for specific release. The only thing you can rely on is the database - approved releases. Guidelines focus on theory, and submissions on practice. It's a good example that theory is slightly different than practice.

    How can you be accurate if the rules aren't :)
  • DakotaThrice over 11 years ago


    pyenapple
    if it doesn't say "Maxi" on it, we should adhere to the rules and not label it a Maxi.


    The guiidelines also tell us not to use album and single unless the release says so as well, but in general that's just ignored and common sense applied.

    My view is that singles (in any form) should be marked as Single unless a source is given to show that the band/label (and not some random store) consider it maxi
  • djpileup over 11 years ago

    if it doesn't state maxi on it do not use maxi

    if there is an objection to applying a fallback of single then just use CD alone

    going strictly by the guidelines when it doesn't state maxi or single just use CD
  • musicmann1 over 11 years ago

    You know what would fix this?
    Just have the choice of single/maxi that all these releases would fall under.
    End of issue.
  • JM.Beaubourg over 11 years ago

    If we look at it from an historical point of view the guidelines can be made very easy.

    Originally a single was a 7-inch with a single track on each side (hence the name). A maxi single was thus a 12-inch, often with an extended remix (it's now up to you to decide whether maxi refers to the maxi physical format or maxi musical format, i.e. 12" vs. 7" and extended mix vs. single mix).

    Of course, labels changed that general idea by creating 7" singles with three tracks (like DepecheMode* - World In My Eyes / Happiest Girl / Sea Of Sin) and maxi-single where no single version ever existed (like New Order - Blue Monday).

    Thus, in my opinion, a single is either a 7", a 3"-CD or a CD that has 1 or 2 songs. A maxi single is either 12" or a CD that has 3 or more songs. Remixes of the same song should not count as songs. Take Assemblage 23 - Document: I would call this a single.

    Exception: when the release says it's a single or a maxi single (as in it's clearly printed or the distinction can be made from the cat#) than it's so. If there's nothing on the release, we can use the official websites of both artist and label. They should agree. (Using this additional rule, we could deduce that the aforementioned "Document" is indeed a maxi single, but the release says "Special thanks... for their... work on this single." But I'm not going to change that as the guidelines so far are unsatisfactory.)

    As to what constitutes an EP - I hate that format and would enforce a strict rule that a release is only an EP when it is said so on the release, or the official websites of the artist or the label.

    If it does not say so on the release, again, both websites (if they both exist) should agree whether this is an EP or not. If one site calls it a single or album, than it's a single or an album.

    I hope I made my point concise and understandable. ;)
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    @ [Invalid Artist]: why are you asking a submitter to add all kinds of stuff that isn't required? Sorting BaIC alphabetically? Adding ASINs? Come on. If you want that do it yourself. You seem to know what you're doing, so.

    About the Maxi single discussion: I would definitely consider that release a maxi single. When it was released (in 1998) the following was a quite common practice on the European market:
    Singles: 2 or 3 tracks, cardboard sleeve
    Maxi Singles: more than two tracks, jewel case
    You also see that with this particular release:
    Single release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are)
    Maxi release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are)

    The whole 'it has to be on the release, otherwise it can't be true' rule is crazy. The majority of (maxi-)single releases don't mention anything about the format.
    This is just in this particular case, I'm not saying this applies to each and every single released in Europe.
    Nowadays labels seem to only release Singles, regardless of the number of tracks on the discs.
  • loukash over 11 years ago

    The_Raven
    Discogs guidelines are for general information. Sometimes you must use your own common sense to find right solution for specific release.

    --> http://www.discogs.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-format.html#Album_MiniAlbum_EP_MaxiSingle_And_Single
    §6.10.
    Album, Mini-Album, EP, Maxi-Single and Single
    6.10. Album, Mini-Album, EP, Maxi-Single and Single tags should only be used where it is clear that is what the release is, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist. If there is doubt, these fields should not be used. Do not guess at or attempt to apply ANY standard to these tags.
    (emphasis mine)

    I'd have my own "common sense" in how to appy these tags as well. Yet the emphasized sentences are there exactly for that reason.

    Please provide a trustworthy source to back up any claims for such fuzzy and abstract format tags. If there's none, simply leave these tags alone. "Format: CD" is all that's required.

    ~~~
    By the way, anyone who didn't vote for my highly related disbugs request yet, feel free to do so:
    http://www.discogs.com/disbugs/1180
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    pyenapple
    Maxi should only be used if it says "MAXI" on the release. This has been discussed many times in the Forums:
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/173591

    Read that topic again. It doesn't say you can't use it if it's not on the release.
    The RSG also doesn't mention that.
    6.10. Album, Mini-Album, EP, Maxi-Single and Single tags should only be used where it is clear that is what the release is, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist. If there is doubt, these fields should not be used. Do not guess at or attempt to apply ANY standard to these tags.

    It only mentions it as an example. It doesn't say it always has to mentioned on the release.
    So your reasoning for replacing the 'maxi single' tag is wrong.
    jweijde
    the following was a quite common practice on the European market:
    Singles: 2 or 3 tracks, cardboard sleeve
    Maxi Singles: more than two tracks, jewel case

    I know this is true, but I guess I can't be considered a 'reliable source'.
    Anyway I did find a source straight from the music industry which mentions that this particular release is in fact a Maxi Single and confirms my previous statement about this release:
    http://www.dutchcharts.nl/showitem.asp?interpret=Pras+Michel+feat.+ODB+%26+intr.+Mya&titel=Ghetto+Supastar+(That+Is+What+You+Are)&cat=s

    Single release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (cat# IND 97535)
    Maxi release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (cat# IND 95588)

    So the correct tag is indeed 'Maxi-Single'.
  • double-happiness over 11 years ago

    We should only use Maxi if it's labelled as such. The tag should reflect the way the release was marketed and not get into defining formats in the absence of any clear universally-agreed definition.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxi_single "does not cite any references or sources". That says it all really.
  • loukash over 11 years ago

  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    The only thing that can be concluded out of all these Single/Maxi discussions is that it is simply impossible to make a 'one-size-fits-all' guideline for it. All releases should be assessed on their own.
    Discussions that try to make a general rule are pointless.

    Lets limit this discussion to the particular release the poster is talking about:
    pyenapple
    http://www.discogs.com/history?release=410338#latest

    And that release should be a Maxi Single
    jweijde
    Anyway I did find a source straight from the music industry which mentions that this particular release is in fact a Maxi Single and confirms my previous statement about this release:
    http://www.dutchcharts.nl/showitem.asp?interpret=Pras+Michel+feat.+ODB+%26+intr.+Mya&titel=Ghetto+Supastar+(That+Is+What+You+Are)&cat=s

    Single release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (cat# IND 97535)
    Maxi release: Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (cat# IND 95588)
  • TechElec over 11 years ago


    double-happiness
    We should only use Maxi if it's labelled as such.


    Why can't people get a grasp on thsi REALLY simple idea?
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    And why can't people get a grasp on the fact we can't have 'ultimate clarification' because like so many guidelines on discogs there is ALWAYS exceptions and we judge those exceptions on their individual merits.

    Guidelines are just that: guidelines. They do not and cannot apply to every single one of the 2 million-ish entries. They are not 100% consistent for the very reason that record labels and artists are not 100% consistent. They do not make music solely to make it easy for people on discogs to document.

    But in in the main: if it dont say it, dont add it.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    Jayfive
    And why can't people get a grasp on the fact we can't have 'ultimate clarification' because like so many guidelines on discogs there is ALWAYS exceptions and we judge those exceptions on their individual merits.

    Guidelines are just that: guidelines. They do not and cannot apply to every single one of the 2 million-ish entries. They are not 100% consistent for the very reason that record labels and artists are not 100% consistent. They do not make music solely to make it easy for people on discogs to document.

    Fully agree.
    Jayfive
    But in in the main: if it dont say it, dont add it.

    But in this case we can rely on external information that confirms the release is a Maxi Single even though the release itself doesn't mention anything about that.
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    But in this case we can rely on external information that confirms the release is a Maxi Single even though the release itself doesn't mention anything about that.


    Then it relies on the reliability of the source I suppose. Like i said, theres always exceptions.

    I'd like to be able to say:
    2 tracks = single
    more than 2 tracks = maxi-single
    more than 2 tracks and states in an ep = EP

    But we all know its not as simple as that :P
  • JM.Beaubourg over 11 years ago

    DutchCharts.nl is hardly an authoritative industry website. GfK.com is. We have only Hung Medien's presentation of the data (and they often have major gaps in their data). Whether they are correct we can't know.

    Though (using my guideline as stated above) I would agree that this should be a maxi, but using the official guideline of Discogs then it shouldn't.
  • spaceface01 over 11 years ago


    Jayfive
    why can't people get a grasp on the fact we can't have 'ultimate clarification' because like so many guidelines on discogs there is ALWAYS exceptions


    Coudn't agree more. Not every single / EP / maxi is marked as such on the release. I would LOVE to see a little common sense introduced here regarding format. Surely a principle/guideline works better than hard and fast rules which will clearly never work.

    If you're unsure? Raise it in the forums....
  • TechElec over 11 years ago


    spaceface01
    If you're unsure? Raise it in the forums....


    Great idea, 10 new topics per day about maxi arguments.
  • spaceface01 over 11 years ago

    spaceface01 edited over 11 years ago
    TechElec
    Great idea, 10 new topics per day about maxi arguments


    :) True. But how can we ever set rules on such a subjective point. I doubt even the artists behind the releases could agree on correct formats, so how can we ever hope to? All i'm saying is that concrete rules will never work. EVER. Flexibility is required. And if this flexibility is written within the rules then it will save many posts of "this does not meet rule #xxx". If someone REALLY thinks something is set wrongly then raise it.

    I fully admit that i do not regulary check the forums to see how often these kind of issues are raised, and i am trusting in the general intelligence of the average submitter, but no doubt i'm lacking in experience here.

    And i feel its only necessary to point out that the people that really mess things up on here are ignoring many of the rules regardless of what is written. Any changes in this area are unlikely to affect what "they" do.
  • mawiles over 11 years ago

    Since Maxi-Single is by the word a Single, there should be some evidence given why it's a Maxi. This evidence doesn't need to be a direct reference to the release cover, as this is a rare exception. Also, the number of tracks alone doesn't mean anything.

    Here's a list of hints:
    - The catalog# affix: CDM = Maxi, CDS = Single. Often numbers are used instead, for example -5 = Maxi, -3 = Single, depending on the label.
    - The packaging in Europe except UK: Case = Maxi, Cardboard = Single
    - The label homepage: discography, release details, news
    - Covers of other versions of the release show "also available as Maxi-CD". Attention: The term "also available as Maxi-Single" on a CD cover refers to the 12", not to a CD.

    The combination of catalog# affix and packaging is the best indirect evidence for most labels.

    Not adding any tag is not a good solution, as an obvious Single (Several versions of a track, track title = relase title, maybe with a bonus track) would be sorted among Albums that don't have the Album tag (yet).
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    JM.Beaubourg
    DutchCharts.nl is hardly an authoritative industry website. GfK.com is.

    Dutchcharts.nl is a site of GfK. GfK provides the data, Hung Media makes sure it is put on the website.
    JM.Beaubourg
    We have only Hung Medien's presentation of the data (and they often have major gaps in their data).
    The info on that site may be incomplete in some cases, but that doesn't mean all info on that site is unreliable. When it comes to the release we're discussing, the site is pretty clear and in my opinion complete/correct.
  • The_Raven over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    @ The_Raven: why are you asking a submitter to add all kinds of stuff that isn't required? Sorting BaIC alphabetically? Adding ASINs? Come on. If you want that do it yourself. You seem to know what you're doing, so.


    For a simple reason, if somebody wants to update identifiers field, it can be done completely all at once. It's better to update in one take. I just don't like when somebody is updating only part of the information that could be updated. Anyway my suggestion was just a 1 minute of work, plus it was just a request. But yeah.. I already decided that I will do this myself.

    I fully agree with jweijde and JM.Beaubourg statements but in some point others have right as well. Basically according to rules we can call this single in both formats. The only proof in this case is the edition. It's a main European release of a well known commercial song, includes all versions. I think people here have put enough effort to solve this issue and further discussion is a waste of time. Thats just only one submission, we have tons of others..

    For some this will stay as CD Single, while others will know that it's a CD-Maxi. This will be the same in every similiar case. Discogs database has surely alot more CD-Maxis than Singles submitted. Without strict rules each thread will have same conclusion and in this point rules can't be specified.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    The_Raven
    Discogs database has surely alot more CD-Maxis than Singles submitted.

    That's mainly because in the past all cd singles and maxis were listed as CD5"s. At one point all those CD5"s were converted in to "CD, Maxi-Single" by an automated update.
  • The_Raven over 11 years ago


    jweijde
    That's mainly because in the past all cd singles and maxis were listed as CD5"s. At one point all those CD5"s were converted in to "CD, Maxi-Single" by an automated update.


    I know, I remember this update but apart of that, CD Maxi is still most common name for a Single. Much more often printed than CD Single
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago


    The_Raven
    I know, I remember this update but apart of that, CD Maxi is still most common name for a Single. Much more often printed than CD Single


    How so? On Discogs? Like jweijde said, that's because everything was auto-updated, so we're left with many things in the database labeled "Maxi" that are not actually labeled as such on the physical release. We probably have far more Maxi-Singles than we should.

    In the end, I find that it is far more precise to only make additive changes that are verifiably true. If there's confusion, don't add the more specific information. I.e. Maxi.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    pyenapple
    labeled "Maxi" that are not actually labeled as such on the physical release

    Let me rephrase that into just 'labeled "Maxi" that are actually singles'
    Again - and how many times I have to repeat this - the guidelines do NOT require it to be mentioned on the release. And they shouldn't.
    pyenapple
    We probably have far more Maxi-Singles than we should.

    That's for sure, but they shouldn't be changed into singles simply because 'Maxi is not mentioned on them'.
    pyenapple
    In the end, I find that it is far more precise to only make additive changes that are verifiably true. If there's confusion, don't add the more specific information. I.e. Maxi.

    There's no need for confusion anymore. Like I said before this record was released in a time when there was quite a clear distinction between maxis and singles and that theory is backed up by a website which sources it's information straight from the industry.

    It's a Maxi-Single.
  • JM.Beaubourg over 11 years ago

    There are days like this one when I wish collaborative databases were updated by librarians and similar professionals only. We would have relatively fast a standard on how to add what information, and while this would certainly be less fun all these long discussions would be about very precise and rather unusual details not something as common place as Maxi or not.

    (***day-dreaming a while***)

    But alas, here we are in the reality again...

    I'd say to be done with this special case, let's do what would be the minimal consensus:

    We all agree that "Single" would be correct!?

    We do not agree that "Maxi-Single" would be correct!?

    As it is not mentioned on the release, we could just leave it with "Single"? (Okay, I'm biased, because this way I would get my way :p )
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    So if this is a Maxi-Single here, Pras Michel Featuring ODB* & Introducing Mȳa* - Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) CD, four tracks
    then these should be Maxis too?

    Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (Vinyl, three tracks)
    Ghetto Supastar (That Is What You Are) (Cassette, four tracks)
    Ghetto Superstar (That Is What You Are) (Vinyl, four tracks)
    GhettoSupastar (That Is What You Are) (Vinyl, four tracks)

    Whether we decide that every record with more than two tracks that isn't an EP or an Album is a Maxi-Single or we stay with the current rules.
    And if we decide this, what are we gonna do with 3 or 4 tracks Compilations like I'm A Man / Walking On Music / Fire Night Dance - Should we call this Maxi-Single too?
  • JM.Beaubourg over 11 years ago

    I can't help grinning... I'm sorry... I'm not helpful...
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    [duplicate post deleted.]
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    Jayfive edited over 11 years ago
    JM.Beaubourg
    There are days like this one when I wish collaborative databases were updated by librarians and similar professionals only.


    My god. You turn being patronising into a science. But leaving that aside for a second:
    JM.Beaubourg
    As it is not mentioned on the release, we could just leave it with "Single"? (Okay, I'm biased, because this way I would get my way :p )


    Yes we do. The issue is not whether it is a single, its what type of single it is (ordinary/maxi/ep/etc)

    Thats why albums or compilation are labelled as such even though the word doesnt neccessarily appear.
  • pastysurprise over 11 years ago

    The drop down format menus look about as effective as a Volkswagen panel van to me.
    There are no system rules. You could enter:
    12" LP Maxi-Single EP Single and the submission would post just fine.
    Why no definitive rule? Why no logic at the forms level!

    Some distinction between physical media substrate traits and cosmetic marketing classifications needs to be emphasized more.

    Total track-time per side should be available on each and every media side.
    Cosmetic rules for Maxi / Single / EP /Etc.. should have some default basis in :
    1) The number of tracks per side
    2) Total length per side
    3) Total release length

    With an optional field to reflect the "cosmetic name" such as Maxi / EP/...

    I'm talking serious rewrite here!
  • JM.Beaubourg over 11 years ago

    JM.Beaubourg edited over 11 years ago
    Well, in a way that's what chart tracking companies do. There are rules for a single to be eligible for the single charts or album charts. (I believe in the UK for single it's no more that three tracks and no longer than 25 minutes but I could be dead wrong here as I recall that from memory...)

    (And, by the way, that's what I meant by speaking of librarians - don't see a joke when one's jumping at you? I mean, "day-dreaming" and "grinning" aren't allowed? I never, never, ever... err...)

    But yes, I feel these choices aren't exactly understandable...

    That's what I would suggest if we would do a major rewrite (as pastysurprise proposed):

    We have the quantifiers - I guess there's no problem with that (except maybe a AJAX generated information when adding "File" to add the number of files because there're still many submissions out there where that's missing...)

    I believe we should ask people always to add the size (12", 10" etc for vinyl, 3" and 5" for CD), then add a first descriptor (single, album) just depending on a definite set of rules, and a second descriptor for maxi etc...

    Err, I see it's not getting clearer but you have to admit that the drop down menu is indeed a bit overladden. Separating physical description and contents classification should be even complete. (I especially like "Partially unofficial" and the two descriptors "Sampler" and "Compilation" as the distinction between those terms a fuzzy at best).

    (Edit: some grammar etc. English isn't as easy as everyone thinks...)
  • z-music over 11 years ago


    jweijde
    Read that topic again. It doesn't say you can't use it if it's not on the release.
    The RSG also doesn't mention that.


    Well someone say different ...well even give NmC because of that!

    http://www.discogs.com/submissions#item=release/2153628

  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    pastysurprise
    Why no definitive rule? Why no logic at the forms level! ?


    Absolutely, if theres no disbugs about that, there should be :)
  • TechElec over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    Read that topic again. It doesn't say you can't use it if it's not on the release.
    The RSG also doesn't mention that.


    6.10. Album, Mini-Album, EP, Maxi-Single and Single tags should only be used where it is clear that is what the release is, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist. If there is doubt, these fields should not be used. Do not guess at or attempt to apply ANY standard to these tags.

    Bascially, it either needs to be mentioned on the release or the submission notes need to include a link to either an artist or label website, NOT some chart company, that back up the inclusion of the tag.

    There is still a lot of users who add it to everything, I've even seen one track maxi-singles. Go figure.

    If you fail to link conform to the above, requests for canges should be expected and are completely justfied.
  • z-music over 11 years ago


    TechElec
    submission notes need to include a link to either an artist or label website


    Do u do that?
  • TechElec over 11 years ago

    I don't submit releases as single or maxi. I sometimes update one that is tagged as such though, like the ones you trawled through my subs to find in order to cast retalliation votes.
  • z-music over 11 years ago

    z-music edited over 11 years ago
    TechElec
    I don't submit releases as single or maxi


    Of course you don't! http://www.discogs.com/Muse-Bliss/release/975103

    TechElec
    the ones you trawled through my subs to find in order to cast retalliation votes


    Yeah each time I say something in public BANG!!! I'm having few votes from TechElec...
  • TechElec over 11 years ago


    z-music
    Of course you don't! http://www.discogs.com/Muse-Bliss/release/975103


    How long did it take you to find that 2 year old submission?

    z-music
    Yeah each time I say something in public BANG!!! I'm having few votes from TechElec...


    No, I went though a few a week ago, gave you fair warning to make changes before I carried on checking. You started a topic (http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/206008) where a number of users, including the site manager told you bascially the same thing as me, you still ignored the changes for requests I'd made so I voted on a few more.

    You've had this explained to you by a number of people and been given enough time to make corrections. If you don't like the rules, go somewhere else.

    Whatever the case, trawling through my subs to cast changes votes doesn't help your case.
  • z-music over 11 years ago

    z-music edited over 11 years ago
    http://www.pop24.de/rosenstolz/diskografie/ or http://www.musicline.de/de/product/602517044630///1434321 aren't realible sources???? so why EI here=? http://www.discogs.com/history?release=1802026#latest

    You never gave any source why shall I? Why do you think you don't need to give any source?

    TechElec
    I went though a few a week ago


    yeah very short after my joke that it's unfriendly to take over somebody's ideas ... and directly after I did say in forum that larger updates should be discussed in forum. from this moiment you go over my subs and bullying me.

    TechElec
    go somewhere else.

    sorry u're not in position to tell me where I should go. You seem not following the rules so why expecting from the others?
  • TechElec over 11 years ago

    z-music
    http://www.pop24.de/rosenstolz/diskografie/ or http://www.musicline.de/de/pro...2517044630///1434321 aren't realible sources????


    Are they the artis page? No. Are they the label page? No. Do I need to point out the obvious direction in which this answe is going? Probably not.

    z-music
    so why EI here=? http://www.discogs.com/history?release=1802026#latest


    because you made an empty edit to get rid of the NmC vote.

    z-music
    yeah very short after my joke that it's unfriendly to take over somebody's ideas ... and directly after I did say in forum that larger updates should be discussed in forum. from this moiment you go over my subs and bullying me.


    Now your delving into paranoia. I periodically go throught forum posters subs and work through some of them, I didn't single you out for any reason but I was alarmed by you adding maxi to virtually all your CD submissions.

    z-music
    sorry u're not in possition to tell me where I should go. You seem not following the rules so why expecting from the others?


    I've done nothing out of line. I'm not replying to you anymore, I've asked nik to step in because you don't seem to want to play nicely or listen to anyone else.
  • z-music over 11 years ago

    TechElec
    you don't seem to want to play nicely

    look who is talking!

    TechElec
    Are they the artis page? No. Are they the label page?

    where is written it must be artist or label page? it might be other realible source. Well here is the news... pop24.de is... Universal's page read there...http://www.pop24.de/service/impressum-und-agbs/ was enough to click "Impressum" the same "Music Line" - "PhonoNet ist die Plattform für den elektronischen Datenaustausch der deutschen Musikbranche" what else do you need? "Certyfied by TechElec"?
  • TechElec over 11 years ago


    z-music
    where is written it must be artist or label page?


    6.10. Album, Mini-Album, EP, Maxi-Single and Single tags should only be used where it is clear that is what the release is, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist. If there is doubt, these fields should not be used. Do not guess at or attempt to apply ANY standard to these tags.
  • z-music over 11 years ago

    For the future before you cast incorrect vote ask politely about the source. I'll give you politely the answer.
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    z-music
    For the future before you cast incorrect vote ask politely about the source.


    He is under no obligation to do so.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    z-music
    where is written it must be artist or label page?

    TechElec
    for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist.

    It's just given as an example. It doesn't say it must be mentioned on an artist or label page.
  • KrissO over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    It's just given as an example. It doesn't say it must be mentioned on an artist or label page.

    I second that, as long as this is the wording the RSG uses it's not up to us to set a rule what kind of sites are valid and not.
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    KrissO

    I second that, as long as this is the wording the RSG uses it's not up to us to set a rule what kind of sites are valid and not.

    This is getting really ridiculous now.
    How about referring to z-musics rules then?
    z-music

    SINGLE:
    15 minutes and no more than one audio track. No multimedia content.
    OR
    15 minutes and one audio track plus additional audio track OR video OR ringtone.

    MAXI SINGLE:
    25 minutes and no more than four songs plus alternative versions of featured songs.
    OR
    25 minutes and no more than four songs (audio or video) plus alternative audio
    versions of featured songs.
    Playing time of video tracks will not count towards total permitted playing time providing
    the video is cut to substantially the same mix as featured audio tracks or is the only commercially available video for the tracks.


  • mjb over 11 years ago

    TechElec
    ...what the release is, for example it is explicitly mentioned on the release, or by the label or artist


    "e.g." / "for example" is not the same as "i.e." / "that is".
    i.e., the list is not exhaustive, it's just a few examples, just a few among many.

    TechElec
    ...what the release is


    Is, as in, the format/description refers to the release's nature, a separate piece of information from the evidence of that nature. For example, a record with 45 RPM printed on it but that actually plays at 33 is a 33 RPM record. Whether it's OK to put 45 or 33 in the format field is another matter. Same goes for Single vs Maxi.

    TechElec
    Bascially, it either needs to be mentioned on the release or the submission notes need to include a link to either an artist or label website, NOT some chart company, that back up the inclusion of the tag.


    Only if you interpret the list of examples as exhaustive.

    A chart company, especially one whose rules the label companies are deliberately trying to accommodate, certainly seems like a good source of info to me; it's just another example of an authority about what a release is, single- or album-wise, if not maxi-wise.

    If you disagree, then please explain your skepticism of the authority of chart companies on the single/album/maxi-ness of releases, without referring to the submission guidelines. Are there some non-singles that charted as 'singles', or non-albums that charted as 'albums'? Are there enough of either of these to matter, or are they rare enough to just be treated as exceptions?
  • musicmann1 over 11 years ago

    musicmann1 edited over 11 years ago
    Would anyone be inconvenienced if we got rid of the maxi format completely for CD's and marked them all as singles?
    I mean, is there anyone out there who collects CD's that are strictly maxi CD's and not singles? It seems kind of pointless anyway since these days there is really no difference.
    IMHO, we should just make it compulsory to add whether it is a 3 inch or promo and what kind of packaging it has.
    eg. jewel case, slimline, digipak card sleeve etc.

    It might save alot of confusion by making it simpler?
    If you agree, please vote here.

    http://www.discogs.com/disbugs/1438
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    musicmann1
    I mean, is there anyone out there who collects CD's that are strictly maxi CD's and not singles?

    I do. When I go out to buy 'old' cd singles, I'm usually looking for maxi singles.
    musicmann1
    It seems kind of pointless anyway since these days there is really no difference.
    Nowadays most labels don't have both singles and maxi singles anymore. They're all singles.
    However in the past there was a difference and Discogs should reflect that.
  • greenoaks over 11 years ago

    i'd be happy if maxi single was completely removed

    there would be albums

    mini-albums or EP's

    and singles, of verious lengths
  • Staff 3.4k

    nik over 11 years ago

    greenoaks
    i'd be happy if maxi single was completely removed

    there would be albums

    mini-albums or EP's

    and singles, of verious lengths


    Then there would still be arguments about if something was a 4 track 'single' or a 4 track 'EP'.

    Don't assume the use of these tags. Look it up, see if you can find confirmation of the release type.

    If you can't find confirmation, or you don't want to research it, just leave the tag off.

    If you have doubts about the use of the tag on a release, do some research, ask some owners, and ask in the forums about that specific example. If it turns out it's wrong, update it. If you don't want to do the research, just leave the tag be.
  • cvalda44 over 11 years ago

    I think, the quidelines are perfect as is. I doubt any ultimate clarification is needed. And how you will bring it in if the maxi-single term isn't used in UK ? Btw, I hate when exactly the same 4-tracker is tagged as Single for UK version and ...oops.. Maxi-single for EU version. I find this very confusing... I think I agree with musicmann1...
  • little_alien over 11 years ago

    nik
    If you can't find confirmation, or you don't want to research it, just leave the tag off.

    Which is probably best. Different terms were also used in different parts of the world. For Europe (excl. UK) it's very clear to me having bought a lot of them back in the 90s and I know how they were marketed to the public. Unfortunately I can't go about and tag everything as I can hardly ever find "hard" proof for it. Give me a time machine and I'll show you.
    greenoaks
    i'd be happy if maxi single was completely removed

    Nope, because a lot of EU singles have a 2-track single (card sleeve) and a 3+ track (slimline jewel case) maxi single version. Having the maxi format it's easy to identify both.
  • cvalda44 over 11 years ago

    Sure when you think only about EU singles, Maxi format looks useful. But when you add UK singles to the box, a confusion starts. UK single may have the same tracks as EU maxi or even more. Btw, you may add Cardsleeve to FTF to identify EU cardsleeve.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago


    cvalda44
    you may add Cardsleeve to FTF to identify EU cardsleeve.

    Usually that isn't needed because there usually aren't any 'otherwise identical versions' of the same cardsleeve single around.
  • cvalda44 over 11 years ago

    Sometimes that isn't needed, but for big MR pages those 'Dig' and 'Car' descriptors are very useful. And there's no need for releases to be 'otherwise identical', the same title and format is enough to add Digipak etc. to FTF.
  • jweijde over 11 years ago

    cvalda44
    but for big MR pages those 'Dig' and 'Car' descriptors are very useful.

    That is, if you know what they mean. Personally I find that those three-letter-semi abbreviations look ridiculous. The occasional viewer won't understand, unless they view the release page and know where it comes from.
    see also here
    cvalda44
    And there's no need for releases to be 'otherwise identical', the same title and format is enough to add Digipak etc. to FTF.

    I see the whole 'otherwise identical' part has been removed from the RSG, so I guess you're right.

    But I believe we're steering too much offtopic here.
    The main question has already been answered.
    Yes, the release mentioned in the first post is a Maxi-Single
    and
    No, an ultimate clarification can't be given - or it should be that each case needs to be assessed on its own.
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    Yes, the release mentioned in the first post is a Maxi-Single

    Did I miss something in this thread here? Who decided this then?
  • Starshiptrooper over 11 years ago

    jweijde
    Nowadays most labels don't have both singles and maxi singles anymore. They're all singles

    There were many maxi's released without the single (2-track) version.
    You don't need to have/know both versions to decide what it is.
    If a single has several alternative versions/remixes I consider it a maxi-CD, regardless of the year, country or packaging.
    Even if there's "CD-Single" printed on the artwork or "CDS" in the cat#.

  • rassel over 11 years ago

    Starshiptrooper
    If a single has several alternative versions/remixes I consider it a maxi-CD, regardless of the year, country or packaging.
    Even if there's "CD-Single" printed on the artwork or "CDS" in the cat#.


    To sum it up, still everybody acts however he feels like in applying this tag (no offence).
    All the discussions we had before seem useless on this subject. So whether we delete "Maxi-Single" as tag or we enforce a stricter rule, that Maxi-Single has to be printed on the item itself.
  • KrissO over 11 years ago

    rassel
    that Maxi-Single has to be printed on the item itself.

    And this is how common?? Except for stickers maybe
  • loukash over 11 years ago

    KrissO
    rassel
    that Maxi-Single has to be printed on the item itself.

    And this is how common?? Except for stickers maybe

    Just off my head, for instance:
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=98631

    But as a reference of tracks sort of coming from "maxi-singles":
    Various - Maxi Disco
    Various - Super-Maxi Funk, Rap & Disco Remixes (14 Explosive & Original 12 inch Versions)
    Various - Super Maxi II (Pop, Funk & Disco Remixes)
    Various - Super Maxi III (Dance M.I.X.E.S.)
    Various - Super Maxi 4 (Dance M.I.X.E.S.)
    Various - Super Maxi 5
    etc…

    (OK, this is all vinyl… :)
  • Kergillian over 11 years ago


    KrissO
    And this is how common?? Except for stickers maybe


    Very common on 80's US vinyl, very common on 90s German CDs - off the top of my head, from my collection I have at least 3-4 Depeche Mode maxis from the 80s with 'Maxi-Single' clearly listed - as well as other, similar synth-pop/new wave bands like Thompson Twins, Dead or Alive and Tears for Fears

    From the 90s, I have German singles for bands like Nirvana and bands like Aqua, which all have Maxi-Single clearly printed on them.
  • JT_X over 11 years ago

    Kergillian
    Very common on 80's US vinyl, very common on 90s German CDs - off the top of my head, from my collection I have at least 3-4 Depeche Mode maxis from the 80s with 'Maxi-Single' clearly listed - as well as other, similar synth-pop/new wave bands like Thompson Twins, Dead or Alive and Tears for Fears

    Virtually every Warner Bros.-related 12" record and equivalent CD single I have has "Specially-Priced Maxi-Single" printed on it somewhere.
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    JT_X
    Virtually every Warner Bros.-related 12" record and equivalent CD single I have has "Specially-Priced Maxi-Single" printed on it somewhere.

    Yep, like http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1836635
    And if you go by the definitions of some users here, more than 2 tracks but less than 5 tracks = Maxi-Single, then this wouldn't be a Maxi-Single at all.
    IMHO this is a good example why all these definitions wouldn't work, we would have to tag this record as "Single", even if it's written Maxi-Single on the sleeve.
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    It's fairly obvious that record labels applied the "Maxi-Single" tag to simply push the market for singles. "Hey! People are buying the 45s! Maybe we can toss in another song and get them to spend more money, so they buy the Single when it comes out before the album, then the Maxi-Single, then they buy the album when we release that two months later!" Perhaps at one point it meant something, but the definition was stretched and distorted over time. I don't see how one can truly apply definition to a term that is essentially meaningless except as a cynical marketing term.

    Some users of Discogs seem to have a very concrete idea of what they think a Maxi-Single is. Let me ask you this: where is it written? Where can one find a resource that explains exactly what this mysterious, nebulous format is? Is there a book? ...A website? ...An aged guru on a mountaintop? I really want to know why it is that some people are so convinced that they are 100% correct in their definition of "Maxi-Single" when it's fairly obvious that the only definition is the definition that individuals assign to it on their own. Yeah, there's a sort of loose idea that a Maxi-Single is at least 3 songs long but less than 5 songs. However, that definition is neither necessary nor sufficient. There exist Maxi-Singles that don't meet this very simple definition. There also exist plenty of regular Singles that meet the definition of Maxi-Single...but aren't Maxi-Singles.

    What I'm trying to say here, fundamentally, is this:
    "Maxi-Single" is, ultimately, a useless term. If we can assign no true definition to it, it does us no good. And how many hours have been spent arguing over it? Has it even merited this amount of discussion? How many more discussions will there be? These endless discussions stem directly from the fact that the term was never nailed down by the record companies, it was applied with little or no caution, and it was a marketing ploy. And now it's really...kind of a waste of our time.
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    pyenapple
    "Maxi-Single" is, ultimately, a useless term.

    Of course, that has always been the outcome of many many discussions here. But, it's just useless because it's impossible to derive any useful rules and standards for Maxi-Singles.
    But are there any rules for "Limited Edition" ?
    And if we would have a format tag for "As Seen On TV" ?

    These are all tags applied by the label for MARKETING PURPOSES. The only useful rule is to add the tag if it's printed on the release. Period.
  • strummin over 11 years ago

    Single, EP (or both) ? Or none of it:

    Sudden Sway - Autumn Cutback Job Lot Offer

    I think the worst criterium for any of this is the number of tracks.

    Also it is meaningless to transfer the term Maxi-Single to the CD format. A Maxi-Single (or a "Super Sound Single") used to be a 12" vinyl. The fact that there was usually less than 10 minutes of music on either side allowed for better dynamic range and a higher signal to noise ratio compared to 7" and LP. None of these advantages apply to the CD or Mini-CD format, where shorter total duration doesn't mean a gain in sound quality.
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    I only apply "Limited Edition" if the release says it on it, or if there is enough data to support it. However, in the long run...everything's limited edition, eh? Will they be pressing CDs or even vinyl 100 years from now? :)

    Oh, that makes me think that ALL physical formats should be labeled "Limited Edition" — because only digitally downloaded formats are forever. Hahahaha.
  • Starshiptrooper over 11 years ago

    rassel
    The only useful rule is to add the tag if it's printed on the release

    Even if there are just 2 short radio edits?
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1350505
    I don't think so!;)

  • rassel over 11 years ago

    Starshiptrooper
    Even if there are just 2 short radio edits?
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1350505
    I don't think so!;)

    Yes
    See, you're starting to apply your personal rules again for the judgement of this release. "2 short radio edits can't be a Maxi-Single".
    The same as I posted above: This can't be a Maxi-Single because it contains just two tracks.
    If we start to apply our own rules for these tags, you will open the floodgate for changes from Album to Compilation and back.

    It's a PR tag, there's no meaning behind it. Once you accept this fact things will be a lot more easier.
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago


    Starshiptrooper
    Even if there are just 2 short radio edits?
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1350505
    I don't think so!;)


    Wait...so this one doesn't get the "Maxi-Single" format because we've determined that it isn't one? Based on a definition that holds no water. Bizarre. The fact that some of us aren't even using the "Maxi" format on a release that explicitly tells us it's a Maxi makes the whole thing beyond absurd.

    A Maxi-Single is just...a Single. Other than that, we can apply no definite attributes to it. Therefore, the term is useless.
  • ahlbomper over 11 years ago

    i used to think of every 12" that didn't have "enough" tracks or wasn't lengthy "enough" to be an ep, a maxi single.
  • Starshiptrooper over 11 years ago

    pyenapple
    A Maxi-Single is just...a Single. Other than that, we can apply no definite attributes to it.

    Nothing is definite - it's usually a case-by-case situation, but still no rocket science.
    It's all about the content of the release.

    And if a CD Single has "Maxi-CD" printed on the sleeve then we should correct the info, like we do with wrong tracklistings and durations.
    Record companies make mistakes all the time:)
  • DaveRowat over 11 years ago

    Starshiptrooper
    "Maxi-CD" printed on the sleeve then we should correct the info, like we do with wrong tracklistings and durations.
    Record companies make mistakes all the time:)

    Maxi-single only exists in our minds anyways. If the label called it a maxi-single, then they are marketing it a certain way, and we should add the tag to represent that regardless of what we think Maxi-Single is.

    As I understand it, Maxi-Single (just like album, EP, etc) is an abstract marketing term that has nothing to do with the amount of tracks, or packaging etc. (by Discogs definition), and that's how we should use it.

    I don't know what argument there is for not putting the Maxi tag on this one by the current guidelines, it is pretty clear that it is a maxi.
    Ha, but I'm not touching it until this gets resolved, which means I will probably never touch it. :)
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    Starshiptrooper
    Nothing is definite - it's usually a case-by-case situation, but still no rocket science.
    It's all about the content of the release.

    And if a CD Single has "Maxi-CD" printed on the sleeve then we should correct the info, like we do with wrong tracklistings and durations.
    Record companies make mistakes all the time:)


    Ahhhh...what? Wrong tracklisting = an error. Printing "Maxisingle-CD" in huge bold type spanning the height of the disc is not an error. It's the record company telling you what you're holding in your hand. The record company indexed that as a Maxi-Single very clearly by labeling it in huge letters, therefore it's a Maxi-Single. A meaningless term meant only for marketing purposes, but a format accepted by Discogs. I'm inclined to go change this to Maxi to advance the argument here.

    Also, "it's all about the content of the release" is spurious when nobody can agree on what the content of the release would have to be to properly merit the "Maxi" format status.
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    Jayfive edited over 11 years ago
    Starshiptrooper
    And if a CD Single has "Maxi-CD" printed on the sleeve then we should correct the info, like we do with wrong tracklistings and durations.


    No we bloody well should not.

    If it says it we add it
    If it doesnt say it we dont
    If we're not sure, we don't add it - no info is better than wrong info.

    And we especially dont dick around with our own convoluted personal definitions of the term. Apart from anything else theres always going to be exceptions to any attempt at definition of a term that is by its very nature undefinable.

    And we especially dont remove format tags because what it says on the release doesnt fit in with one's own personal definition of a format. If its titled as an EP but its got one 45 second track, we chuffing well add 'EP' to the format.

    And that compadres is as definite as you are EVER going to get on this. So ffs just learn to live with it.
  • Starshiptrooper over 11 years ago

    pyenapple
    Also, "it's all about the content of the release" is spurious when nobody can agree on what the content of the release would have to be to properly merit the "Maxi" format status.

    That particular "Ritmo De La Noche" release *would* have been a Maxi-CD if they had included the extended mixes from the vinyl version.
    But they didn't, so in this case they misused the term "Maxi".
    It's really very, very simple.
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    Jayfive edited over 11 years ago
    Starshiptrooper
    That particular "Ritmo De La Noche" release *would* have been a Maxi-CD if they had included the extended mixes from the vinyl version.
    But they didn't, so in this case they misused the term "Maxi".
    It's really very, very simple.


    They may well have mis-used it in your opinion, but its still there. We might correct things on a release, but we dont directly contradict them.

    And they havent mis-used the term at all, theres no universally-regarded sets of definitions to misuse. 'Maxi' is pretty much whatever you want it to be.

    Fact is whatever you do it'll keep getting re-added, so you might as well accept its on there because 'as on release' will always win out.
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago


    Starshiptrooper
    That particular "Ritmo De La Noche" release *would* have been a Maxi-CD if they had included the extended mixes from the vinyl version.
    But they didn't, so in this case they misused the term "Maxi".
    It's really very, very simple.


    It's a Maxi-Single. It's really very, very simple. It says so. On it.
  • Jayfive over 11 years ago

    And dont go saying 'but its not got enough tracks to be a maxi' or whatever.

    Ive seen enough 2-track eps and 7-track singles to blow that idea out of the water.
  • Starshiptrooper over 11 years ago

    I am not changing or editing formats.
    I was just trying to help you understand, but apparently to some people it IS rocket science.
    Oh well, most people here know how to use it correctly so there's no need for Big Drama.
  • musicmann1 over 11 years ago

    We may as well be talking to trees about this.
    Management won't change it.
    The suggestion I made was up for one day before it was closed on discbugs which seems to be about the average amount of time it takes for any suggestions I do have to make to be closed.
  • Staff 3.4k

    nik over 11 years ago

    musicmann1
    Management won't change it.
    The suggestion I made was up for one day before it was closed on discbugs


    http://www.discogs.com/disbugs/1438

    You seemed to put up a discussion rather than a statement.

    musicmann1
    It seems there is alot of confusion over which CD's should be labelled maxi and singles.


    Only if users don't follow the quite simple guideline.

    musicmann1
    Would anyone be inconvenienced if we got rid of the maxi format completely for CD's and marked them all as singles?


    Yes, all the people that have entered and checked items as 'Maxi Single' would be inconvenienced, as well as any user browsing the artist pages looking for specific releases.

    musicmann1
    I mean, is there anyone out there who collects CD's that are strictly maxi CD's and not singles?


    I imagine so. Also, just normal users looking for a single instead of a maxi, or vice-versa.

    musicmann1
    It seems kind of pointless anyway since these days there is really no difference.


    Cite? OFFICIAL UK SINGLES CHART RULES (October 2009) include very clear definitions of a number of 'maxi' types.

    musicmann1
    IMHO, we should just make it compulsory to add whether it is a 3 inch or promo and what kind of packaging it has.
    eg. jewel case, slimline, digipak card sleeve etc.

    It might save alot of confusion and make it simpler?


    Mini-CDs and Promos need to be tagged as such in the format. Packaging needs to be taken in context to be relevant.

    Starshiptrooper
    That particular "Ritmo De La Noche" release *would* have been a Maxi-CD if they had included the extended mixes from the vinyl version.
    But they didn't, so in this case they misused the term "Maxi".


    You may or may not be correct.

    You'd need to look up the German chart rules circa 1990, and possibly also cite another trustworthy source saying that that release was tagged in error.
  • earlyadoptr over 11 years ago

    I'll start by admitting I haven't read all this thread.
    How does defining Maxi-Single as a Single with 2 or more mixes of the title track sound?
    for example:
    http://www.discogs.com/Cure-Mint-Car/release/178717 (CD,Single)
    http://www.discogs.com/Cure-Mint-Car/release/82545 (CD,Maxi-Single)
  • rassel over 11 years ago

    Oh no, not again , please.
  • earlyadoptr over 11 years ago

    HUH??????
  • pyenapple over 11 years ago

    Funny, Rassel! :)

    Earlyadoptr, it's really for the best to thoroughly read the thread.
  • earlyadoptr over 11 years ago

    I have subsequently read this thread and did not find my suggestion within it prior to my posting
  • Gabbahead over 11 years ago

    The formats above should be OK IMO. But this has been discussed 10000 times. ;-)

    This is also a typical MCD and no CDS like mentioned on sticker. They just were lazy or whatever, often their German isn't correct. ;-)
    http://www.discogs.com/Sido-Ein-Teil-Von-Mir/release/1222808

    We often should more rely on our common sense, then any obsolete thoughts. Labels are often lazy and don't care about correct definitions. Would this be an EP if a sticker, website or whatever would call it EP?
    http://www.discogs.com/Sido-Ein-Teil-Von-Mir/release/1979894

    NEVER! The special status for UK is also a strange thing. Sorry, but why should we care about it, when the rest of the world calls these "singles" with 3, 4 or more tracks, maxi-singles? What do most of the oggers, sellers think when they see these "singles". Dunno, maybe I'm too egoistic?

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