• PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    there is a user who has been adding images of a gold promo stamping on a sleeve to the release images. his argument is that it will keep people from not finding a stamped promo version in the db and adding a dupe.
    obviously, gold stamped promos are not eligible for addition, but should we allow documentation of a generic gold stamp that appears on any given release to be added to release images? it's not unique to the release.

    if visible in the image of a sleeve - thats fine, of course. but detail images of the stamp added as addendum? seems like a waste of time for the user and resources for discogs. anyone agree?

    i removed the stamp and explained to the user such documentation is superfluous when it appears in the same form on any given release. they then added it back. i'd like to avoid a full blown image edit war, so if we can reach a consensus advising against such detail images of promo stamps that can be presented to the user that would be great.
  • silverleaf over 7 years ago

    Adding that just for it's own sake would come under:

    13.1.6. There is no need to have several versions of the same view, nor ultra-detailed images.
  • djindio over 7 years ago

    That's fine for retail releases that have been goldstamped, but what about actual promos with goldstamped covers:
    label: http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1604927-1231642090.jpeg
    stamp on back cover: http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1604927-1231642064.jpeg
  • ahlbomper over 7 years ago

    ahlbomper edited over 7 years ago
    PabloPlato
    but detail images of the stamp added as addendum? seems like a waste of time for the user and resources for discogs. anyone agree?

    more problematic might be that (especially if there isn't also an image of the same spot showing a copy without the stamp) some might then more so assume it's a unique release if it doesn't have the stamp.
    (almost the opposite of what the image submitter said)
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago


    djindio
    That's fine for retail releases that have been goldstamped, but what about actual promos with goldstamped covers:
    label: http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1604927-1231642090.jpeg
    stamp on back cover: http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1604927-1231642064.jpeg


    it is the promo designation on the label that was printed along with the rest of the information which denotes the release as a promo - not the gold stamp. that is shown moer to illustrate that the promo came in the retail sleeve, which was just stamped to differentiate it from the retail sleeve.

    i think in this case

    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1604927

    it would be best to update the release images so the sleeve (front and back) is as big as possible - it will allow more details to be discernable as well as show the stamp more clearly, thus eliminating the need for the detailed view of a gold stamp.

    plus, the sleeve images currently show the retail release sleeve images - the back cover lacks the gold stamp. i assume the detail shows the gold stamp over Nia's hip on the back cover - which is absent on the full back cover image.

    see how it this is handled on this release
    http://www.discogs.com/808-State-Ooops/release/1902148
  • djindio over 7 years ago

    djindio edited over 7 years ago
    PabloPlato
    it is the promo designation on the label that was printed along with the rest of the information which denotes the release as a promo

    It has nothing to do with it being a promo and everything to do with differentiating the entry from the entry for the retail.

    http://www.discogs.com/help/submission-guidelines-general-rules.html#Unique_Releases
    1.4.2. If the difference is subtle, you must explain the difference in the release notes, or with images, or by any other effective means, in order that future users can tell their versions apart by referring to the entry in Discogs.

    It wasn't added
    silverleaf
    just for it's own sake

    Sealed copies of that promo cannot be differentiated any other way.

    1.4.2. clearly allows for detailed images in such cases.

    (edit:fixed quote)
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    submit an image of the sleeve with the promo stamp at 600 pixel width and you eliminate the need for the detail image.
  • djindio over 7 years ago

    djindio edited over 7 years ago
    PabloPlato
    submit an image of the sleeve with the promo stamp at 600 pixel width and you eliminate the need for the detail image.

    Be my guest. Don't have that particular record anymore.

    In the meantime:
    djindio
    Sealed copies of that promo cannot be differentiated any other way.

    1.4.2. clearly allows for detailed images in such cases.


    ...
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    i dont own that one. but as it stands now, the sleeve images are for the retail edition and not the promo, so they should and could be removed. all you'd be left with there would be the detail image, which wont be much help for identifying purposes.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    PabloPlato edited over 5 years ago
    before we get derailed - in instances where no actual promo exists, only retails and gold stamped retails turned into promos, are such detail images necessary? should it be discouraged? can they be removed as being superfluous?
  • djindio over 7 years ago

    djindio edited over 7 years ago
    PabloPlato
    the sleeve images are for the retail edition and not the promo

    Image of the non-stamped back of the cover has already been disabled, the front is the same on both.
    ...I'll see if I can 'borrow' that one back from the new owner.

    PabloPlato
    only retails and gold stamped retails turned into promos, are such detail images necessary?

    Necessary? no.

    PabloPlato
    should it be discouraged?

    Personally, I think that managing the addition of images + releases notes would be better. People are gonna keep adding them, maybe an attempt to manage the flow in an agreed upon manner would be more sensible? Example:

    Notes:
    "Retail edition was also 'goldstamped' and used as promo".

    Images:
    Both non-goldstamped + goldstamped images would be fine (and of course no need for scans of just the goldstamp as you say).

    Submission notes:
    goldstamped cover, not allowed as a unique entry, adding images here + notes.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago


    djindio
    Both non-goldstamped + goldstamped images would be fine (and of course no need for scans of just the goldstamp as you say).


    indeed. i just dont see the point of adding a detail of the gold stamp when it would look the same on any other record, and as such, the detail image could be uploaded to just about any other release's image set.
  • Mr.Mystery over 7 years ago

    What possible reason would there be to add an image of the stamped cover?
  • schtel over 7 years ago

    I'm sure it's ok to add to the notes "Gold Stamped versions also exist, see pic."
    I'd say it's better to know that, over not knowing it. IMHO
  • Staff 3.1k

    nik over 7 years ago

    PabloPlato
    should we allow documentation of a generic gold stamp that appears on any given release to be added to release images?


    Yes.

    schtel
    I'm sure it's ok to add to the notes "Gold Stamped versions also exist, see pic."
    I'd say it's better to know that, over not knowing it. IMHO


    I agree.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    http://s.dsimg.com/image/R-792879-1316717223.jpeg

    so this would be better than showing the stamp on a 600pixel wide image of the entire sleeve? as of now, the detail of the stamp could be from any canadian release with a red cover. i would rather see a clear properly scaled image of the entire sleeve with the gold promo stamp - you would still be able to make out the gold stamp but also be able to tell what the release is.
  • schtel over 7 years ago

    ^ agree. We'd want a better pic than that anyway so we can read the text, and have it the right way up, at least! :)
  • SampleKween over 7 years ago

    Since gold stamped promos arn't able to be added why should there be notes about them?
  • 8m2stereo over 7 years ago

    ^
    nik
    it's better to know that, over not knowing

  • Curiopete over 7 years ago

    Yes, very important info. I'd rank that to be as equally important as knowing whether it was released in a plain paper inner-sleeve or a plain poly inner-sleeve.
  • ahlbomper over 7 years ago

    nik
    PabloPlato
    should we allow documentation of a generic gold stamp that appears on any given release to be added to release images?

    Yes.

    can you be more specific ?

    is detailed image showing only a promo stamp ok (also if copies without stamp exist) ?
    (i think that might mislead some to think it must have the stamp or it's a different version in some cases?)

    or if it exist both with & without a stamp is it ok to upload 2 sleeve images, 1 having stamp the other not ?
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    i think it should be just assumed that for releases from the (i'm guessing here) late 70s?/80's onwards that there will likely be a gold stamped promo copy available.

    just as we assume items to be stereo without the need to point it out.
    or vinyl to be black unless we indicate otherwise.

    documenting promo-markings that are not unique to a release is just trivial i think.
  • silverleaf over 7 years ago

    I don't understand. Nik, what is the actual importance of allowing the close-up images of the 'gold stamps'?
    Are there any releases that couldn't have had at least a few of those [commercial release made promo] distributed?
    Why is that not better suited to the notes area of your own My Collection and/or the description area of a seller's page?
  • Mop66 over 7 years ago


    Curiopete
    in a plain paper inner-sleeve or a plain poly inner-sleeve.

    There are also those combined inner sleeves, you know, the ones made from paper but with additional inner poly as well.
  • Curiopete over 7 years ago


    Mop66
    There are also those combined inner sleeves, you know, the ones made from paper but with additional inner poly as well


    OMG, how could I be so careless.

    ummm...the remark was a product of my twisted sense of humour, is all ;)
  • SampleKween over 7 years ago


    silverleaf
    I don't understand. Nik, what is the actual importance of allowing the close-up images of the 'gold stamps'?
    Are there any releases that couldn't have had at least a few of those [commercial release made promo] distributed?
    Why is that not better suited to the notes area of your own My Collection and/or the description area of a seller's page?


    Agree but still think it is not needed since we can't add Gold Stamp Promos as unique releases any ways. It's redundant.
  • cvalda44 over 7 years ago

    cvalda44 edited over 7 years ago
    I think close-up image is Ok if gold stamp can't be seen well on big image, or, especially, if the whole image with gold stamp is not present.
    That's just like close-up of a sticker. A "retail promo" may have all various kinds of stamps and stickers and pictures+notes always serve better than just notes.

    SampleKween
    but still think it is not needed since we can't add Gold Stamp Promos as unique releases any ways. It's redundant.

    Documenting variations is never redundant. It's like saying adding SID Code variation is redundant. Gold stamped promo is a release version, just not always allowed to be a separate sub, so you have to document it within present sub - but there should not be restrictions.
  • ahlbomper over 7 years ago

    cvalda44
    Gold stamped promo is a release version, just not always allowed to be a separate sub, so you have to document it within present sub - but there should not be restrictions.

    i think there is restrictions generally disallowing uploading sets of images of several color shades of the same labels (& such).
    i think we shouldn't upload extra image of a copy which has a cutout or cut corner..., just to document that some copies has that.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    ahlbomper
    i think there is restrictions generally disallowing uploading sets of images of several color shades of the same labels (& such).
    i think we shouldn't upload extra image of a copy which has a cutout or cut corner..., just to document that some copies has that.


    exactly - it should just be assumed that retails marked as a promo may exists out there.
    if anything, the label page should have an image set of the various ways they are known to have marked items as promo, and what years such markings are likely to be found. that way if anyone cares, they can see a detail on the label page of the promo stamp and know to expect a retail of a particular release marked in such manner.

    such a marking is inherent to all releases rather than to a specific one, so why should these vague detail images be added to any specific release?
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago

    if release images are good from the get-go, there is no need to add a detail shot of the gold stamp.

    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2895180

    those wishing to document the gold stamp should aim to upload as optimal a release image as possible, thus showing the stamp within it's context and with the whole sleeve image visible.
  • cvalda44 over 7 years ago

    cvalda44 edited over 7 years ago
    PabloPlato
    exactly - it should just be assumed that retails marked as a promo may exists out there.

    oh yeah we should just assume there are may be promo sheets, stickers and stamps. i'm not sure you wasn't joking. did you forgot what this site is for ?

    PabloPlato
    if anything, the label page should have an image set of the various ways they are known to have marked items as promo,

    these markings can be only release-specific. even "generic" gold stamps may be different. then a gold stamped promo may exist.. or may not exist - and it should be documented, not "assumed".

    ahlbomper
    i think there is restrictions generally disallowing uploading sets of images of several color shades of the same labels (& such).
    i think we shouldn't upload extra image of a copy which has a cutout or cut corner..., just to document that some copies has that.

    currently, we are discussing additional promo "artwork", not colour shades or damages.
  • Staff 3.1k

    nik over 7 years ago

    I don't see the harm in adding images of any promo stamps that may appear on the release, along with release / submission notes explaining that.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago


    cvalda44
    promo sheets, stickers and stamps.


    i never said they couldn't be uploaded. just that they should be included in context. no one would ever upload just the header of the promo sheet - they scan and upload the entire sheet. but the promo sheet is also release specific - you will (hopefully) never see the same promo release sheet in a kylie minogue release as you would in a madonna release. so why upload just the promo stamp? i'm arguing for users to upload the entire sleeve with the promo stamp if they are so inclined.

    cvalda44
    even "generic" gold stamps may be different.


    i've never seen a gold promo stamp that was unique to a release. there are several variations of them, as seen in the two images i posted in this thread, but they are not release specific and appear on other releases too.
  • ahlbomper over 7 years ago

    cvalda44
    ahlbomper
    i think there is restrictions generally disallowing uploading sets of images of several color shades of the same labels (& such).
    i think we shouldn't upload extra image of a copy which has a cutout or cut corner..., just to document that some copies has that.

    currently, we are discussing additional promo "artwork", not colour shades or damages.

    i know.
    but i think what i posted there is a relevant perspective to include in the considerations in this discussion.

    promo stamps isn't exactly the same as cuts or different shades of color, but all these things do have in common they don't mean unique release at discogs.
    & we can't in any form upload additional images just to show that some copies have cuts (or different shades of colors as far as i know).
  • SampleKween over 7 years ago


    cvalda44
    Documenting variations is never redundant. It's like saying adding SID Code variation is redundant. Gold stamped promo is a release version, just not always allowed to be a separate sub, so you have to document it within present sub - but there should not be restrictions.


    Then I say they should be allowed as Unique Releases. Still makes no sense to me but ok.
  • PabloPlato over 7 years ago


    SampleKween
    Then I say they should be allowed as Unique Releases.


    no, absolutely not.
    /discussion

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