• fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger edited over 6 years ago
    For the first time in years I went into my local HMV today and had a look at their vinyl section, I was quite shocked to see the average LP price must've been around £20.

    Juno Records are selling the same LP's at these inflated prices, and they're selling some 12" singles at £25+ such as

    http://www.juno.co.uk/search/?q%5Bartist%5D%5B0%5D=69&solrorder=relevancy&hide_forthcoming=0&show_out_of_stock=0&facet%5Blabel_facet%5D%5B0%5D=planet+e+us

    http://www.juno.co.uk/search/?q%5Bartist%5D%5B0%5D=69&solrorder=relevancy&hide_forthcoming=0&show_out_of_stock=0&facet%5Blabel_facet%5D%5B0%5D=planet+e+us
  • flipster over 6 years ago

    These are big retailers making hay while the sun shines. Vinyls 'hip' at the moment so they intend to capitalize whilst the goings good, they have no other interest but to make some dosh.

    Plus HMV have always ripped off the unsuspecting dupes.
  • DIFFO over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    For the first time in years I went into my local HMV today and had a look at their vinyl section, I was quite shocked to see the average LP price must've been around £20.


    Not expensive

    It's 2015 :)

    Its the main reason I don't buy much on vinyl nowadays as age old over youth gives so much more commitments :/
  • joescrase over 6 years ago

    joescrase edited over 5 years ago
    flipster
    These are big retailers making hay while the sun shines. Vinyls 'hip' at the moment so they intend to capitalize whilst the goings good, they have no other interest but to make some dosh.

    Plus HMV have always ripped off the unsuspecting dupes.


    It's now cheaper to buy a first pressing of most Beatles albums in VG+ condition than to buy new from HMV. How is that logical? It's not.
  • johnantmoo over 6 years ago

    Most record companies now allow you to buy direct from the source, cutting out the stores completely. For example, Epitaph have a great online store where for less than the high street price of a regular LP you can get the coloured version of most of their albums. A lot of other record labels do the same. Of course you have to factor in shipping but if you were going to spend money on 5 or 6 albums in HMV or Tower, you'd be better off ordering from source. With postage you'd pay around the same, but get a better, more desirable product.
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    DIFFO
    asboFor the first time in years I went into my local HMV today and had a look at their vinyl section, I was quite shocked to see the average LP price must've been around £20.

    Not expensive

    It's 2015 :)

    Its the main reason I don't buy much on vinyl nowadays as age old over youth gives so much more commitments :/


    £20 for a new LP vinyl release or repress is not inline with inflation.

    And this is just ridiculous

    £28 for a 12" single repress

    http://www.juno.co.uk/products/4-jazz-funk-classics/415554-01/
  • DIFFO over 6 years ago

    joescrase
    flipsterThese are big retailers making hay while the sun shines. Vinyls 'hip' at the moment so they intend to capitalize whilst the goings good, they have no other interest but to make some dosh.

    Plus HMV have always ripped off the unsuspecting dupes.

    It's now cheaper to buy a first pressing of most Beatles albums in VG+ condition than to buy new from HMV. How is that logical? It's not.

    As much as I have admired Urban Outiftters for continuing to sell vinyl in store for the last decade I can't help but feel a little pissed of that they insist n overcharging unsuspecting members of the public. Annoys me alsmot as much as people that but records for vanity.


    Yeah busy Hi Streets and employment with people making money always sucks
  • The_Beatles. over 6 years ago

    joescrase
    It's now cheaper to buy a first pressing of most Beatles albums in VG+ condition than to buy new from HMV. How is that logical? It's not.


    Because it's a common mistake to assume that "Beatles'"...."60's"....= "Rare"

    Look at the sales figures rare they weren't ;-)
  • Pbunn1953 over 6 years ago

    It's called GREED. And to speak of greed; how about the prices being charged for Recird Store Day product. I used to enjoy it. Now I think I'm just about done with it. Over priced and then the store owners add the additional 20-30%. It's out of hand. Not to mention the flippers.
  • Farjenk over 6 years ago

    Farjenk edited over 6 years ago
    You all made me start a thread about Urban Outfitters... I have never really even looked at the vinyl in there. Should I? Don't let me hijack this thread.... I don't really think all new vinyl is expensive... Seems like the smaller independent bands keep it cheap most of the time...

    HATE record store day! Couldn't even fit in the store! (Went there for an agoraphobic friend, couldn't even get their record ...
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    Are those Carl Craig records US imports or are they pressed and dist'd over there in UK or Europe? That may make a difference in price, plus its in pretty colored vinyl, tack on a little more.

    At least it has a printed label art. There are EU imports that all you get is an inner sleeve, white label and a stamp with only 2 tracks costing anywhere from 10 to 13 usd wholesale!
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    Tokeowave
    Are those Carl Craig records US imports or are they pressed and dist'd over there in UK or Europe? That may make a difference in price, plus its in pretty colored vinyl, tack on a little more.

    At least it has a printed label art. There are EU imports that all you get is an inner sleeve, white label and a stamp with only 2 tracks costing anywhere from 10 to 13 usd wholesale!


    So what? Coloured vinyl is usually only £1-£2 more at the very most. Carl Craig is 69 and owns Planet E Recordings so the label and music is 100% CC. This means no licensing, expensive admin and middle men costs etc etc.

    £12 maximum for imports is reasonable. £28 is pure greed.
  • Eviltoastman over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    £12 maximum for imports is reasonable. £28 is pure greed.

    Indeed.

    I wrote at length about the issue here. Most of what Diffo says is only partially true. Inflation and costs have increased but the markup is not proportionate.
    http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/396312#3674042
  • Mr.Mystery over 6 years ago

    Buy used records. New music is crap anyway.
  • Eviltoastman over 6 years ago

    Mr.Mystery
    Buy used records. New music is crap anyway.

    Most of the time, yes. Seems to be the case.
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    I was quite shocked to see the average LP price must've been around £20.

    DIFFO
    It's 2015 :)

    The £ ain't what it once used to be.
    In Switzerland a new LP costs between 20 and 40 CHF these days.
    In the early 1980s when I started to buy records, a new LP also sold for at least 20 CHF (except for budget reissues which sold for ±15 CHF).
    When I came to Switzerland in 1981, 1.00 CHF was £0.22.
    As of today: 1.00 CHF = £0.70
    Do the math.
  • HM-2 over 6 years ago

    HM-2 edited over 6 years ago
    Production costs have gone up because vinyl releases in general are pressed in smaller quantities. A non mainstream release is hardly pressed in 1,000 copies these days, more like 300. It does however not warrant a 12" getting sold for £28, even 10 is borderline when you take into perspective that you receive a record with two (sometimes even one) songs in return.
    The problem is the few people that do buy these kinds of expensive/manufactured rarity releases buy them anyway, so labels get away with it. Depending on the genre this has had pretty extreme consequences when it comes to vinyl releases in general. Metal is pretty much thriving these days while electronic music is seeing more and more artists and labels either disappear altogether or go digital (which is like one foot in the grave already if you ask me).
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    HM-2
    The problem is the few people that do buy these kinds of expensive/manufactured rarity releases buy them anyway, so labels get away with it.

    It's not a "problem", it's called free market.
    Supply and demand.
    If you don't need it, don't buy it.
    If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it.
    It's really that simple.™
  • cellularsmoke over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    £20 for a new LP vinyl release or repress is not inline with inflation


    you sure about that?

    What did records cost say, 40 years ago? 20$US now is 4.55$US in 1975.
    20£ now was about 2.70£ in 1975.

    So I guess the question is - what did records cost you when you first started buying records, and what year was that?
    Then go put those years into an inflation calculator and see if it falls in line.

    A lot of the cost is inflation, and some of the cost is a Popularity Tax - but even then, vinyl is still selling in tiny numbers compared to other entertainment, so there's only so much novelty add-on they can put on and still make it appealing to a wide enough public to sell more units.
  • bibijeebies over 6 years ago

    Some very good deals to be had still...for instance the Hejira Rhino LP mastered by Chris Bellman and pressed by Record Industry, sometimes offered for euro 16,90...a bargain for such an incredible pressing and mastering!
    On the other hand, Nonesuch Ry Cooder LP's for euro 44,90 or the new wonderful Wilco rarities boxset retailing for euro 130 (4Lp's and a booklet), thats euro 32,50 per LP! Reasonable would have been euro 89 approximately...

  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    Tokeowave edited over 6 years ago
    fecklessscrounger
    So what? Coloured vinyl is usually only £1-£2 more at the very most. Carl Craig is 69 and owns Planet E Recordings so the label and music is 100% CC. This means no licensing, expensive admin and middle men costs etc etc.

    £12 maximum for imports is reasonable. £28 is pure greed.


    Your argument is flawed because those C2 records have everything except a hologram of C2 jumping out of it performing the songs for you. They're also housed in pvc sleeves and those aren't cheap meanwhile there are 12" european singles that are essentially 2 song white labels already expensive at the wholesale level and they don't necessarily have middlemen, admin costs either but it's okay for them to be expensive.
  • Bradx over 6 years ago

    When I worked in a record shop, not so long ago, we used to laugh at the crap that sold at silly prices.
    One day the boss showed me a copy of Tubular Bells that had just come in... it was going to have to be around £30. He was going to send it back to the distributors but I said "nah, it'll probably sell"
    Sure enough the very next day some middle-aged man with too much money bought it first thing.

    In the town I live in you could go around the corner to the 2nd hand district and get a mint original for about a fiver. There's a shop that has multiple copies of all that type of thing for very little cost.
    I mean - Tubular Bells!!?! - it sold 2.5m copies in the UK alone, there's plenty of originals about, why spend £30.
  • kevindgarbett over 6 years ago

    The mark up on most retail products is 50 per cent so if HMV buy a product for ten uk pounds they will sell it for twenty uk pounds.Just sayin.
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    Furthermore, many of the dance labels/artists are sore that they have to sell their releases at a limited mark up at the distro level but then to discover marketplaces and lately retail stores selling it at high retail prices so they increase the price they sell their product to vendors for which in turn also inflate their markup contributing to high retail prices.
  • Plastic-Man over 6 years ago

    Mr.Mystery
    Buy used records. New music is crap anyway.


    Cool generalization bro.
  • PabloPlato over 6 years ago

    vintage vinyl is green & eco-friendly vinyl
    ;)
  • Bradx over 6 years ago

    kevindgarbett
    The mark up on most retail products is 50 per cent so if HMV buy a product for ten uk pounds they will sell it for twenty uk pounds

    Ummm. that's 100%... but anyway. That's no longer true for a lot of shops... they don't get double anymore.... more like 1 3/4 (or 1.75) of the wholesale price (ie you buy for £10 and you sell for £17.50)... (usually round it up to £17.99 or so to inc VAT).
    Margins aren't anywhere near as good as they used to be (with new stuff.... 2nd hand is completely different of course).
  • smzdt76 over 6 years ago

    It's not (usually) the store's fault. Their markup is dependent on the price the label charges. I know people who own record stores and some labels they buy from have greatly increased their wholesale prices for absolutely no reason other than obviously to make more money. Major labels charge ridiculous amounts for vinyl, same as they did for CDs.
    Also, vinyl isn't a 100% markup product as Bradx pointed out.
  • LolH over 6 years ago

    It's not always horrendously priced, although I agree a lot is. Most of Gizeh Records stuff is £12, which don't think is too bad, especially as it is 180g, nicely packaged, high quality sleeves, comes with an instant download and a download code with the vinyl. Plus, they are nice friendly people who appreciate your business. And top tunes/bands on the label.
  • bobbley over 6 years ago

    https://www.queenonlinestore.com/*/*/Queen-Forever-Vinyl-Box-Set/42HJ0000000
    4 LPs and a 12" delivered to your door for a measly £82...
  • boris_the_human over 6 years ago

    At least you have an HMV. In Oxford there's now just one shop in the whole city where you can buy new vinyl (Truck Store). HMV closed about two years ago, Virgin a couple of years before that... I blame the students...
  • rugogs over 6 years ago

    rugogs edited over 6 years ago
    bobbley
    https://www.queenonlinestore.com/*/*/Queen-Forever-Vinyl-Box-Set/42HJ0000000
    4 LPs and a 12" delivered to your door for a measly £82...


    Errm...sorry, i was just about to make a post saying that vinyl apart from apparently dance/electronic artists isn't that expensive at all compared to the overall price-development, but then you come around with the Queen-example and i have to say "bollocks!"
    The 2CD is out there for 14GBP / 15Euros without a hassle and they wan't to rip you more than 80pounds just for adding a 1-track, etched 12"-single (which is the only difference apart from format)?
    Well.. if i were into Queen i would feel seriously ripped-off.
    The at least 40GBP overprice (given that there are four vinyl discs) can't just be for the " lift-off lid box featuring a gold foil Queen logo" certainly, that's ridiculous.
  • vikvinyl over 6 years ago



    What did records cost say, 40 years ago? 20$US now is 4.55$US in 1975.
    20£ now was about 2.70£ in 1975.
    I remember in 1972 our apprehension when the sales rep for Warner/Elektra/Atlantic announced the price hike to $5.98 for single-disc releases. Imagine, then, what we thought - not to mention the backlash we received - when the next year Capitol announced a $6.98 retail price for single-disc releases.
  • brunorepublic over 6 years ago

    vikvinyl
    What did records cost say, 40 years ago? 20$US now is 4.55$US in 1975.
    20£ now was about 2.70£ in 1975.


    This exactly.

    A lot of people are comparing current vinyl prices to the price of vinyl the last time it was a mainstream product 25 years ago, and not factoring in inflation.

    Second, there are very few pressing plants left in the world. Vinyl is heavy and costly to ship (especially now since everyone is all about the 180g editions), and unless you live in the Czech Republic, chances are most of the new releases in your local shops came from another country.
  • Farjenk over 6 years ago

    brunorepublic
    Vinyl is heavy and costly to ship


    So true. This is definitely part of the issue when it comes to imported stuff.
  • HM-2 over 6 years ago

    HM-2 edited over 6 years ago
    loukash
    It's not a "problem", it's called free market.
    Supply and demand.
    If you don't need it, don't buy it.
    If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it.
    It's really that simple.™

    If you have no other choice but actually want the music, you will bite the bullet from time to time. This has nothing to do with the 15000th reissue of some Led Zeppellin LP. Pressing an LP on 5 different colors has also become the norm and guess what there are people that buy all colors... Not a "problem" for me (or any other halfway sane human being) but it encourages eBay flippers and ultimately some desperate dude buys a record that came out last week for 40 Euro... In Metal this has become a regularly occurring event.
    Pressing quantities are limited from the start. It seems that a lot of labels think if a release doesn't sell out in two weeks it's not worth it. It might sound exaggerated but at least in Metal this is happening very often.
  • johnfarruggio over 6 years ago

    2 things ..

    1 - General inflation ... Everything has gone up in price since 10 or 20 years ago. Not just the cost of pressing a record, but the shipping costs to send to stores, labor, ink, and everything else that is part of manufacturing a vinyl from start to finish.

    2 - Quantity ... I pressed a few records in the past and youd be surprised how a run of 2000 copies was literally half the cost of just 500 copies (per unit). Imagine when labels were printing 10 to 30,000 copies ... it was probly 1/5 of the cost per unit of the small runs.
  • cellularsmoke over 6 years ago

    vikvinyl
    I remember in 1972 our apprehension when the sales rep for Warner/Elektra/Atlantic announced the price hike to $5.98 for single-disc releases. Imagine, then, what we thought - not to mention the backlash we received - when the next year Capitol announced a $6.98 retail price for single-disc releases.


    That means, adjusting for inflation, vinyl is cheaper now - not more expensive... like a lot of things.

    The raw Dollar amount is higher, but once you take into account the comparative costs, things today are pretty cheap.

    What really hasn't kept up with time is that your Ability To Buy (i.e. how much you make versus how much you can buy with that money) has gone way way down in the last 30-50 years. So things look way more expensive today because we just have less buying power. Which sucks.
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    brunorepublic
    unless you live in the Czech Republic

    Well, in a perfect Utopia maybe.
    In this world though, labels from all around the world are ordering vinyl from GZ who ship it en bloc abroad to them. Then the labels send a handful of records back to Czechia to the few local distributors (if any).
    1st-hand experience. :/
  • brunorepublic over 6 years ago

    loukash
    In this world though, labels from all around the world are ordering vinyl from GZ who ship it en bloc abroad to them. Then the labels send a handful of records back to Czechia to the few local distributors (if any).


    Oh yes, I occasionally encounter that sort of logistical absurdity in my own country (e.g. a product made but not marketed in Canada, so I can only get it by importing it from the US).

    Is the situation any better for Czech labels/artists? Or is there no domestic demand, and basically everything GZ does is for export? I'm told that's how it is with the Czech-made Pro-Ject turntables, but that's a bit more understandable as they're made for an Austrian company.
  • rugogs over 6 years ago

    rugogs edited over 6 years ago
    brunorepublic
    I'm told that's how it is with the Czech-made Pro-Ject turntables, but that's a bit more understandable as they're made for an Austrian company.

    Then you shouldn't forget that the better Music Hall turntables from 5.1 to 9.1. are also nothing else than usual czech built "Pro-Ject" turntables that were further progressed.
    The Pro-Jects themselves are not acutually worth the money they cost. Especially when considering the effort for operation (turning the belt for speed change /special power adapters etc.). They are good, but nothing more.
    Calling 300 bucks for such a 200% fully manual mono-block-turntable with no feature at all and which is not even properly uncoupled is just ridicoulous to be honest, all conviction aside.
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    brunorepublic
    Is the situation any better for Czech labels/artists?

    Frankly, I don't know. I don't live there since 34 years in fact, so I'm not following all activities overthere. :)
    Nonetheless, even Supraphon has reissued a bunch of old LPs lately:
    Flamengo - Kuře V Hodinkách
    Olympic (2) - Želva
    However, at least in case of the latter, it was with the major help from the Olympic (2) fan club guys who put a lot of free work into the project, as they told me 2 years ago (they also contributed a bit to my Olympic (2) - Everybody! (Thoughts Of A Foolish Boy) compilation).
    There are of course quite a few small Czech and Slovak labels doing vinyl. Some are also active users on Discogs, for example sanberg101 or PoliPet. They would surely know more.

    brunorepublic
    I'm told that's how it is with the Czech-made Pro-Ject turntables

    Obviously they have direct domestic distribution: http://www.sev-litovel.cz/en/gramophones-pro-ject

    Generally, SEV Litovel (the Pro-Ject manufacturer, formerly Tesla Litovel) is apparently a similar case like GZ Media (formerly Gramofonové Závody): the facility was already there for decades. Eventually by some chance they turned out to be one of the last manufacturers in Europe capable of manufacturing large quantities of the desired items, be it turntables (SEV), be it vinyl records (GZ).

    rugogs
    The Pro-Jects themselves are not acutually worth the money they cost.

    I don't know, I've never used them.
    But the old Tesla Litovel hi-fi turntables (not the cheap ones!) from the 1970s and 1980s were pretty good, at least for a behind-the-Iron-Curtain manufacturer. One of my uncles used to have one, I think the Tesla HC43 (see http://www.oldradio.cz/gramof.htm )

    Anyway. Worth the money or not, I'm actually still happy with my Technics SL-QX300 since 1983, thankyouverymuch… ;)
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    loukash
    (see http://www.oldradio.cz/gramof.htm )

    This is apparently the first turntable ever manufactured in Litovel:
    http://www.oldradio.cz/gramofon/h13.htm
    110294 (!) units made from 1952 to 1954.

    When I was a child, my grandparents used to have a radiogramophone with this kind of turntable built in, also made in Litovel:
    http://www.oldradio.cz/gramofon/h21.htm
    That was the beast that has ruined my first albums back in the 1970s… :D
  • brunorepublic over 6 years ago

    rugogs
    The Pro-Jects themselves are not acutually worth the money they cost. Especially when considering the effort for operation (turning the belt for speed change /special power adapters etc.). They are good, but nothing more.


    The Pro-Jects and Music Halls are still miles better than anything with the Crosley name on it, or other similar plastic USB junk. I disagree that they aren't worth it, simply because the unfortunate reality of today is there's very little in the way of "mid-fi": it's all either low-end garbage, or exotic high-end product which cost thousands of dollars/pounds/euros. There's very little in between, and that's where Pro-Ject/Music Hall come in.

    I too hate fiddling with a belt to change speeds, but aside from the Hanpin OEM table (available under a dozen different brand names), I can't think of any current table worth owning which can change speeds at the touch of a button.

    I have a Pro-ject RPM 1.3 which I use for casual listening. I'll admit part of the reason I bought it was because it looks really cool, but I have no regrets about getting it or what I paid for it.
    Then again, I'm the kind of guy who buys a cartridge that costs more than the table I put it on, so there's that. But in attempt to steer this back on topic: factoring in inflation, it still wasn't much more expensive than what a basic consumer table would've cost 30 years ago.
  • Kein.Mensch over 6 years ago

    In my opinion the correct question is "Why is new mainstream vinyl now so expensive?". Dealing with music that is not mainstream, someone can easily see the difference. In DIY punk for example (the music I'm involved and not only as a listener), currently 12-14 euros for a new LP release is the norm. And I'm talking about fine looking releases too, with fine paper, gatefolds, colored vinyls etc etc etc
  • loukash over 6 years ago

    brunorepublic
    back on topic: factoring in inflation, it still wasn't much more expensive than what a basic consumer table would've cost 30 years ago.

    That's actually true. My Technics SL-QX300 cost about 400 CHF back in 1983, being one of the top models in its class. The Pro-ject RPM 1.3 costs the same these days: http://www.toppreise.ch/index.php?a=227767

    Kein.Mensch
    "Why is new mainstream vinyl now so expensive?"

    Is it?
    In 2008 I bought the Beatles* - Magical Mystery Tour reissue new for ±25 CHF (in Media Markt, d'oh!). That's about 10-20 % more than what it would have cost me back in 1981, and exactly the same it would have cost me 20 years ago. But given the actual buying power of CHF these days, it's in fact much, much cheaper. (And I don't even compare to prices in Euro outside the "Swiss Island"… :)
  • serious_sam over 6 years ago

    Vinyl prices vary hugely around the world. For example, the new Sufjan Stevens album is available to pre-order on the Asthmatic Kitty website for $13. In my local record shop in Bristol, they want £15 for it, approx $23, nearly twice as much. So, to answer the question, why is new vinyl so expensive, I would answer, it all depends on where you are shopping!
  • kevindgarbett over 6 years ago

    Vinyl prices have always varied.I remember when Littlewoods and Tesco sold vinyl albums in the late seventies and would charge £2.99 or £3.49 or whatever for a chart album( I paid £4.99 for London Calling by The Clash in Jan 1980 from Sundown Records in Wolves,price stickered and a double LP which if you allow for inflation is probaly around £20ish today) but at the same time HMV would be charging £5.99 for imported 12 inch disco singles.
    Reddingtons in Brum were charging 49p for top 100 chart singles in 1978 but started overcharging when it became more of a collectors shop in the nineties.I bought a Detroit Emeralds single from there around 93ish and the guy tried to charge me £15 for it !
  • Plastic-Man over 6 years ago

    I actually recall buying records from HMV in the mid to late 90's at very low prices; for example they regularly had Mokum Records stuff priced from £1.99 to £3.99 that was going for £7.00 at a nearby independant store.
  • bobbley over 6 years ago

    I bought Smile (6) - Gettin' Smile from HMV in Peterborough in the mid 90's for £4.99 - I remember thinking at the time, a bargain for a Japanese Import...
    Back then there was no-where else really to find imports, let alone buy them - the good ol' days before t'internet!
  • joescrase over 6 years ago

    Plastic-Man
    I actually recall buying records from HMV in the mid to late 90's at very low prices; for example they regularly had Mokum Records stuff priced from £1.99 to £3.99 that was going for £7.00 at a nearby independant store.


    Yer, I know of at least one of my local stores that openly admitted to buying stock from other stores such as HMV, buying every copy they had, causing a shortage and then pricing them up slightly in their store. A concept covered by Graham Jones in Last Shop Standing

    http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/last-shop-standing-author-graham-jones-readies-new-book-of-record-store-anecdotes/
  • socalrecords over 6 years ago

    Some stores sell vinyl as novelty merchandise and focus on customers who are less savvy about comparison shopping and want the instant gratification of walking out of the store with the item in their hand NOW. It feels gross but it's legal and there are people (I'd imagine younger kids or people shopping for gifts) who will naively pay $35 for a record they can get elsewhere for $20.
  • savagepink-us over 6 years ago

    An interesting listen, on this very topic. "Vinyl's Difficult Comeback" by John Harris, The Guardian.
  • kevindgarbett over 6 years ago

    One thing about the seventies was the randomness of buying vinyl like even the shop that my dad bought his fishing gear from sold vinyl and every newsagent would have one of those wire display things with those budget albums in
    I bought loads of happy hardcore and hardcore from HMV in the nineties mainly priced at £4.99 or £4.49 for twelve inch singles.
    Another memory,walking into my local post office in about 1983 and finding boxes of really obscure disco stuff mainly 12 inchers at 3 for a pound.Only bought about 6 if I remember.
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    cellularsmoke
    vikvinylI remember in 1972 our apprehension when the sales rep for Warner/Elektra/Atlantic announced the price hike to $5.98 for single-disc releases. Imagine, then, what we thought - not to mention the backlash we received - when the next year Capitol announced a $6.98 retail price for single-disc releases.

    That means, adjusting for inflation, vinyl is cheaper now - not more expensive... like a lot of things.

    The raw Dollar amount is higher, but once you take into account the comparative costs, things today are pretty cheap.

    What really hasn't kept up with time is that your Ability To Buy (i.e. how much you make versus how much you can buy with that money) has gone way way down in the last 30-50 years. So things look way more expensive today because we just have less buying power. Which sucks.


    If the majority of us have less disposable income then in real terms vinyl and everything else is significantly more expensive. So when a millionaire record label owner charges £28 for 12" single represses of his own music, this is the ultimate in pure money grabbing greed. Shame on Carl Craig.
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    Carl Craig is a millionaire? First I heard of this. :)
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    Tokeowave
    asboSo what? Coloured vinyl is usually only £1-£2 more at the very most. Carl Craig is 69 and owns Planet E Recordings so the label and music is 100% CC. This means no licensing, expensive admin and middle men costs etc etc.

    £12 maximum for imports is reasonable. £28 is pure greed.

    Your argument is flawed because those C2 records have everything except a hologram of C2 jumping out of it performing the songs for you. They're also housed in pvc sleeves and those aren't cheap meanwhile there are 12" european singles that are essentially 2 song white labels already expensive at the wholesale level and they don't necessarily have middlemen, admin costs either but it's okay for them to be expensive.


    WTF? No 12" repress can justify £28 just for been in PVC sleeves. If PVC were that expensive then no artist would use them!
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    -Printed label
    -Colored vinyl
    -Unconventional sleeve
    -4 tracks

    Look at the other standard releases on his label, they're not overpriced. Even then they have printed labels, shrinkwrap more than 2 tracks.

    I'm talking about what you get for the money charged. And how do you know that Carl priced them that high? It could be the store itself padding it.
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    Tokeowave
    Carl Craig is a millionaire? First I heard of this. :)


    Well I don't know for sure but I would assume the majority of the early big name techno pioneer / dj's / label owners are?
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    TokeowaveCarl Craig is a millionaire? First I heard of this. :)

    Well I don't know for sure but I would assume the majority of the early big name techno pioneer / dj's / label owners are?

    Either they are not or very discrete with their bling. :)

  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    Tokeowave
    -Printed label
    -Colored vinyl
    -Unconventional sleeve
    -4 tracks

    Look at the other standard releases on his label, they're not overpriced. Even then they have printed labels, shrinkwrap more than 2 tracks.

    I'm talking about what you get for the money charged. And how do you know that Carl priced them that high? It could be the store itself padding it.


    No other 12" single coloured represses in PVC are sleeves or whatever are anywhere near £28. Those represses are overpriced everywhere, I emailed Juno who said their prices reflect what they cost in wholesale.

    I just bought Paperclip People's (Carl; Craig) Country Boy Goes Dub on Red vinyl on CC's label Planet E from Juno, came with inner paper, cardboard and PVC sleeve for £7.99! Which is reasonable and what all his 69 releases should cost.
  • Tokeowave over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    I just bought Paperclip People's (Carl; Craig) Country Boy Goes Dub on Red vinyl from Juno, came with inner paper, cardboard and PVC sleeve! Also released on CC's label Planet E. Cost £7.99 which is what all his 69 releases should cost.

    Looks like this release is UK distributed. And has 2 tracks; original track, 1 remix even though with color vinyl. Could explain the lower price. This is his latest release and is trying to move stock. The fact that this is priced way lower balances out those records with a higher price and as a consequence can afford to have a lower price on this Paperclip 12" you're talking about. I don't claim to know why he would price some titles lower and some more but if you examine what you get for the price of those expensive ones in and of itself, it's not too unreasonable. If kept in nice condition can go up in value.
  • kevindgarbett over 6 years ago

    I think prices for vinyl have stayed the same (allowing for inflation) for the last 30 years or more.Maybe our perceptions have changed ie music is more readily available now therefore it should cost very little to buy in a physical form.

    Compact discs used to cost £15 to £20 each when they first started to appear in 1983/84,the equivalent of £30 to £40 now.
  • Pbunn1953 over 6 years ago

    Its called GREED.
  • joescrase over 6 years ago

    Pbunn1953
    Its called GREED.


    *capitalism
  • Bradx over 6 years ago

    Bradx edited over 6 years ago
    What I liked about 'the olden days' was finding vinyl in strange outlets.... like I used to visit my parents in a small town and in the newsagents there was a few racks of vinyl .... and there was a lot of good stuff..... reggae, punk all sorts. And it was cheap so I always filled my boots. I was buying things like The Slits 'Cut' and King Stitt 'Herbsman Shuffle' for £1. each. Things like that. Still got most of them.

    You could find junk shops with a box of records... or electrical shops - they used to sell vinyl. There was no other format (apart from cassette) back then - so vinyl was everywhere. In charity shops you could find boxes of avant garde elecronics, experimental stuff... all about 50p/ or £1 for albums that are £50 - £100 now / or more.
    Nobody knew the value of obscurities (well, not many apart from a few clued-up dealers, and they priced from their knowledge - not from price guides)... so it was all guesswork.

    Now there is so much money in vinyl the vibe has changed for me. The chances of getting true bargains have receded.
    Everyone can look at popsike, discogs, price guides... so all the prices are the same wherever you go.
    At record fairs you can still get bargains... especially at the end of the day when dealers are desperate to make some money out of their over-priced, according-to-the-internet records.

    Its not all doom and gloom. The chances of finding that record I saw once in 1978 and never bought ... that is easier now. I remember trying to get hold of Starsailor by Tim Buckley in the late 70s - and nowhere had even heard of it. I couldn't understand why a record that the NME kept on about was hard to find... but it was deleted and trying to find it where I lived was imposssible. Now you can get a decent copy for about £10 or less...... I eventually paid £15 in 1979 for a copy. Big buckeroos back then.

    Ah sigh... the old days, weren't they great lol.
  • fecklessscrounger over 6 years ago

    fecklessscrounger edited over 6 years ago
    Tokeowave
    asboI just bought Paperclip People's (Carl; Craig) Country Boy Goes Dub on Red vinyl from Juno, came with inner paper, cardboard and PVC sleeve! Also released on CC's label Planet E. Cost £7.99 which is what all his 69 releases should cost.
    Looks like this release is UK distributed. And has 2 tracks; original track, 1 remix even though with color vinyl. Could explain the lower price. This is his latest release and is trying to move stock. The fact that this is priced way lower balances out those records with a higher price and as a consequence can afford to have a lower price on this Paperclip 12" you're talking about. I don't claim to know why he would price some titles lower and some more but if you examine what you get for the price of those expensive ones in and of itself, it's not too unreasonable. If kept in nice condition can go up in value.


    Planet E is stated as US import on Juno and discogs as far as I can see. CC's Country Boy Goes Dub on red wax is average priced, like his other 69 re-releases should be. Having numerous average priced releases does not justify £28 for other 12" represses, especially when its his own music on his own label, 300% mark-ups is just pure greed. It's us techno lovers who have made CC rich. Imagine if poor Detroiters like CC was suddenly having to pay 3x more for vinyl because their idols became greedy, I'm sure they would have something to say about the matter.
  • loizoin over 5 years ago

    Even for the smallest run of LPs (say a pressing of 250), vinyl production costs work out at about £4 each. And that is on THE most uneconomical production run. On a (tiny) run of 2000, it's less than £2. So to charge anything over than £12 is scandalous.
  • steve.fletcher over 5 years ago

    In the Philippines I found record stores were charging an average 5-6000php for new imported vinyl. This is a staggering £80-90 per vinyl release. I know import tax almost doubles the price. Neighbouring countries such as Hong Kong, and Thailand is no where near as expensive for vinyl.
  • BennyILL over 5 years ago

    It's not the stores over charging, it's the distributors jacking retailers. The prices I get from my distro are crazy, after mark up and staying competitive I'm lucky to make $3-$4 bucks.
  • typoman2 over 5 years ago

    What bugs me much more than the unrealistic prices is the shitty quality you get these days much too often.
    Often sounds worse than mp3's, either because of bad mastering or quality flaws when pressing. Not to speak of scratches all over on sealed "mint" vinyl.
    I can't really say whether this is the "new standard" – I don't buy enough new stuff to be able to assess this – maybe it was just bad luck.
    But I decided to avoid this in future and concentrate on pre 1990 stuff.
  • RockerFrank over 5 years ago

    typoman2
    What bugs me much more than the unrealistic prices is the shitty quality you get these days much too often.
    Often sounds worse than mp3's, either because of bad mastering or quality flaws when pressing. Not to speak of scratches all over on sealed "mint" vinyl.
    I can't really say whether this is the "new standard" – I don't buy enough new stuff to be able to assess this – maybe it was just bad luck.
    But I decided to avoid this in future and concentrate on pre 1990 stuff.


    Well spoken. I rarely buy any new releases either because of these issues. And those heavy new LPs are a bitch to carry anyway when changing apartments.
  • F104G over 5 years ago

    Inflation.
    The oldest record I have that I bought new and still have the receipt for is Iron Maiden - The Number Of The Beast. This cost me £4.99 back in 1982. Now, looking at this website tells me that, in today's money, that price is £17.11.
    Vinyl is no longer "the norm" - so I don't think paying twenty of your British quids for an LP is too bad really.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    Those CC recs at juno's have been there for... 5 years?
    "in stock £27.99 - Add to cart" - apparently not too tempting for all us CC fans out here.

    I've noticed that, buying from the label itself is sometimes a lot more expensive than from Juno or from a seller on Amazon. The record is more expensive - the shipping is REALLY more expensive...
    "Support the label/Artist!!" How? Why? If it isn't plain stolen goods, I buy the cheapest copy.

    Generally, if a record is expensive from the start these days, I just ask myself "Do I really want it? Is it probable that it will be sold out soon/immediately? Will I regret not buying it and watch it at double the price from an Ogger that goes *Classic*Must Have*?

    I have no problem to admit that I got an email from the Eric Prydz site with an offer for his new album on an exclusive 4LP at €80 including shipping, and I only hesitated shortly, and pressed Buy. A couple of days later it was sold out.
    Will there be a repress? Will the music be unappealing?
    The real reason to the staggering price is probably because it was marketed by the Pistol's own EMI.

    Still - the price of a new vinyl is much more variated now than 20-30 years ago.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    ... Also, the new Massive Attack 12" at 18£ is an absurd price to me. Makes the Prydz 4 LP look cheap...
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    loukash edited over 5 years ago
    After all my work is done and our new project is finally out, I'd painstakingly count all the hours I've spent working on it for the past two years, and it all boils down to an hourly wage of a whopping €6.12 (in words: euro six point twelve) while I'm trying to make a living.

    And yet you guys still have the nerve to ask:

    Why is new vinyl now so expensive?


    Answer:
    Labor is not being done for free. ;)
  • typoman2 over 5 years ago

    loukash
    After all my work is done and our new project is finally out,

    Damn, that's what I call cover design!!!
    Looks great, man! My respect.
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    typoman2
    Damn, that's what I call cover design!!!
    Looks great, man! My respect.

    Thanks!
    It's quite a bit of a homage to this kind of covers from the olden days.

    In any case, making a digital layout look "analog" in Illfrustrator takes a LOT of time.
    That said, it's probably still the only professional design tool that can do it the way I want it. OutDesign doesn't have the nifty randomizing vector effects, Shot'o'Fopp is the wrong tool for this kind of work, and Affinity's very promising new apps are not there yet.
  • beercanchicken over 5 years ago

    typoman2
    What bugs me much more than the unrealistic prices is the shitty quality you get these days much too often.
    Often sounds worse than mp3's, either because of bad mastering or quality flaws when pressing. Not to speak of scratches all over on sealed "mint" vinyl.
    I can't really say whether this is the "new standard" – I don't buy enough new stuff to be able to assess this – maybe it was just bad luck.
    But I decided to avoid this in future and concentrate on pre 1990 stuff.


    I think the mastering issue is slowly being addressed. But the physical quality control of vinyl is insulting. Couple that with most brick and mortar store's extremely conservative return policies; it makes it hard to justify the expense to risk buying a new release without researching first. Another problem is that there's frequently a well documented "bad pressing" of an album. You walk into a record store see _____ album and have no way of telling if it's the crap one or the fixed one. Runout code stickers on the outside cellophane would help greatly.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    I also bought a new sealed vinyl box last year - with a big deep eccentric 1 cm scratch!
    I contacted the on-line shop and they sent a replacement copy.
    And yes - generally I do not buy remasters.
  • jweijde over 5 years ago

    CDs are getting more ezpensive too. Last week a seller rejected my reasonable offer for a used dance music cd, claiming his £ 33 asking price was a very good one, since the item had sold once on Discogs for € 60.
    I hate that. Rip off.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    jweijde
    CDs are getting more ezpensive too. Last week a seller rejected my reasonable offer for a used dance music cd, claiming his £ 33 asking price was a very good one, since the item had sold once on Discogs for € 60.
    I hate that. Rip off.


    Well, that's second hand. If any given person is willing to pay an exaggerated amount for a used CD, any seller could assume any price because of that.
    Maybe he will get his asking price, eventually.
    If some one buys it at €12 - will he automatically lower his asking price? Probably not.

    I bought two copies of a CD for €1 both, in Near Mint/Mint condition, that at the time had been sold for €50 (!) repeatedly.
    Now, a few years later, they are offered at €21, witha recent sale of €12.

    Then again, I haven't sold anything on Discogs, and can't really grieve a "missed profit of €100". I bought them for €1, and frankly, that is a loss I can live with.
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    jweijde
    a used dance music cd

    That's definitely not the subject here.
    Supply and demand.
    Welcome to the free market. ;)
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    Also, the new Massive Attack 12" at 18£ is an absurd price to me.


    Just repeating the obvious.
  • Fauni-Gena over 5 years ago

    loukash
    Supply and demand.
    Welcome to the free market. ;)

    Exactly. Huge clue: people charge what the market will bear. Greed? Nothing wrong with charging market prices. If that means greed to you then greed is good. The real word for it is freedom.
  • webweaver over 5 years ago

    Just a thought: when I was a teenager in the early 1970s a single LP averaged about £2.50 ( I remember paying this for a first pressing of Ziggy Stardust, which I wish I still had). My weekly wage then was about £10 and the average weekly wage for an adult around £30. From that point of view, buying a new LP represented a much more significant proportion of income than it does now. As I said, just something to think about.
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    zevulonAlso, the new Massive Attack 12" at 18£ is an absurd price to me.
    Just repeating the obvious.

    Massive Attack - Ritual Spirit
    Have: 8
    Want: 196

    Massive Attack - Ritual Spirit
    Have: 11
    Want: 163

    loukash
    Supply and demand.
    Welcome to the free market. ;)

    Also repeating the obvious.

    £18 ≈ CHF 25 today.
    While CHF 25 is a lot for a 12" EP compared to the usual CHF ±15 for a 12" maxi ever since the 1980s, in the end it's the same piece of vinyl as a standard LP which today also costs at least CHF 25 in a regular store. So, add the "limitness", the colored vinyl, the "sleeves artfully hand-finished by Del Naja", and also the "high expectations" and "long awaitingness" to the mix, and there you have the prime price of £18.
    Meh.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    loukash
    it's the same piece of vinyl as a standard LP


    We used to pay for the music.

    In the US, I believe it was customary to charge for the actual songs.
    An album, 2xLP, was always more expensive than a 2x12" single/maxi.
    We are supposed to pay for the copyright, not only the basic materials and van drivers.
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    We used to pay for the music.

    In case of the Massive Attack EP you don't pay extra for the music (or the lack of) included, you pay extra for the "exclusivity" surrounding and accompanying the whole release.
    That's called "hype".
    (Hint: Don't Believe The Hype / Prophets Of Rage! ;)

    If they would have wanted to release a black vinyl 12" in a generic company sleeve, knowing that they could sell like tens of thousands of copies, they would have very likely charged less than £18. (Although… who knows, but I'm not the average "hypeable" target audience anyway, so… :)
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    zevulon edited over 5 years ago
    loukash
    That's called "hype".


    I'm willing to pay for Hype - but not Massive Attack 2016.
    Massive Attack early 90s, maybe, yes, but not this year.

    ...of course, I might take this back, but I doubt that I'll ever even hear it.

    Like, impossible as it may seem these days, take this awesome Massive 12" of olde
    (love the Underworld rework :D

    Limited Edition, # ....51386 (!!)

    https://www.discogs.com/Massive-Attack-Risingson/release/69539#images/10414294

    If they sell 5 000 of that new £18 12", I'll get very impressed.
    If the'd sell it at £4.99, they still will not reach 50,000 copies.
  • fecklessscrounger over 5 years ago

    loukash
    jweijdea used dance music cd
    That's definitely not the subject here.
    Supply and demand.
    Welcome to the free market. ;)


    The problem is what begins as a market mechanism quickly becomes the accepted market norm, and they exploit us music fans big time, like other industries such as football ticket prices.

    Many artists are music enthusiasts themselves and should remember who made them rich, or wealthier, respect their loyal fans and look at ways of thanking us for our support and loyalty instead of trying to swindle us.
  • loukash over 5 years ago

    fecklessscrounger
    they exploit us music fans

    When I was a kid back in the communist Czechoslovakia, every now and then I went drooling at the Western rock LPs at the "illegal" weekly record fair somewhere in Prague on ever changing outdoor locations, playing hide and seek with the police.
    People were usually selling a used album for 400 Kčs which was at that time on the black market about 25 Deutsche Mark, more than what an LP would have actually cost in Western Germany at that time, if I recall correctly.
    For comparison, a domestic Czechoslovak LP would officially cost Kčs 44.-.
    The average monthly salary of a worker was about 2500 Kčs.
    Do the math.
    (Also for comparison: 0.5 l beer was Kčs 1.70 ;)

    Supply and demand.
    The free market mechanism in full effect, even in an otherwise "planned economy" society.
  • Jarren over 5 years ago

    "Why is new vinyl now so expensive?"

    Regardless of the undoubted resurgence of vinyl in the past 5 or so years, it's still very much a niche market.

    Niche markets attract higher prices due to their very nature.
  • MJG196 over 5 years ago

    The New York Dolls first LP sold for $5.99 retail in 1973. Adjusted for inflation, that's over $30. Seems to me like prices are pretty comparable.
  • jweijde over 5 years ago

    jweijde edited over 5 years ago
    loukash
    Supply and demand.
    Welcome to the free market. ;)


    Supply and demand, really? Rather "what a fool is willing to pay". These sellers see that 10 people have it on Discogs and 100 want it and say "It must be rare" and crank up the price. Unfortunately sellers at other marketplaces follow the example set by Discogs´ sellers. They simply want to score big. Also this "if you don´t like the price, don´t buy it" looks like a fair argument, but if all sellers mirror the prices of their competition, then how are you ever going to get it at a reasonable price ? I see this happening more and more often. It sucks being a potential buyer in such a marketplace. It just ain´t fun.
    This applies to both vinyl and cds.
  • fecklessscrounger over 5 years ago

    loukash
    asbothey exploit us music fans
    When I was a kid back in the communist Czechoslovakia, every now and then I went drooling at the Western rock LPs at the "illegal" weekly record fair somewhere in Prague on ever changing outdoor locations, playing hide and seek with the police.
    People were usually selling a used album for 400 Kčs which was at that time on the black market about 25 Deutsche Mark, more than what an LP would have actually cost in Western Germany at that time, if I recall correctly.
    For comparison, a domestic Czechoslovak LP would officially cost Kčs 44.-.
    The average monthly salary of a worker was about 2500 Kčs.
    Do the math.
    (Also for comparison: 0.5 l beer was Kčs 1.70 ;)

    Supply and demand.
    The free market mechanism in full effect, even in an otherwise "planned economy" society.


    But as I and other posters have explained, the so called discogs 'free-market mechanism' is now a rigged market.
  • Plastic-Man over 5 years ago

    I heard a song from 2011 the other week and looked it up in the database...

    Two on sale: £19.32 & £20.00

    Sales History - Lowest: £10 / Median: £10.39 / Highest: £40...

    "Meh", thought I, "As great as it is I'm not paying that much for a single the B-side of which is a remix I'm not even that fussed about."

    On a whim I checked out the labels site... £3.99 new.

    A winnar is I... :D
  • MJG196 over 5 years ago

    loukash
    When I was a kid back in the communist Czechoslovakia...


    In Soviet Russia, you did not buy records. Records bought you!
  • magpiesandcurios over 5 years ago

    His Masters Voice has always been a rip off anyway! (just my two cents)
  • verleider67 over 4 years ago

    i was in HMV today and I was alot of people looking at the overpiced vinyl and did not see one record make it's way to the tills , tells me that no one is buying it

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