• stickfiguredistro over 3 years ago

    Hey everybody,

    Please help user gregorystitt and I with this dilema: http://www.discogs.com/history?release=2383519#latest

    a) Do promotional versions have the same catalog number as the retail version?

    b) Do promotional versions have barcodes?

    Who do you'll think is right here?

    take care,

    Gavin
  • gregorystitt over 3 years ago

    I don't understand where you got the idea that promotional items are required to have a different catalog number and no barcode. Why wouldn't you think an item is a promo even after being given the info that the disc has a promotional box as a part of the printed artwork? It has a hole punch in the barcode, that's the SOP for most labels. If it only had the punch, it wouldn't qualify for the db, but it is specifically marked as a promotional release. The scans of the item that are and have been available in the sub should speak for themselves, but you chose to take it upon yourself to edit something without asking questions in the sub notes, or reaching out to any of its owners.

    As for "anybody could have screened that tag to your cd" - are you kidding me?
  • THE-ONE-AND-ONLY-SBL over 3 years ago

    Vinyl promos can indeed have barcodes on the sleeve, but there are normally stamped over the top (often in gold) with the term FOR PROMOTIONAL USE ONLY. This was often just a money saving exercise as the used the upcoming official release sleeve to send them out in. Likewise, you could often get promo CD singles with different cat no's on the inlay than the disc. The cat no on the sleeve would be from a different promo of the same track, just with additional tracks/mixes added. I cannot recall an actual time where a promo CD had the same cat no as the official release. The often were proceeded with PR or PRCD. There are lots of examples of vinyl release where the promo and the official release have the same cat no. I also know of a Hammer (MC Hammer) promo CD single where the cat no is exactly the same as the official 7" release.
  • snickersnots over 3 years ago

    6.12.2. Promo...Retail releases with stamped, stickered, or similarly altered covers and / or media are to be considered the same as retail, as should retail releases with...cut barcodes...

    Based on the pictures, it looks like it has a cut barcode and a stamped/stickered disc. This should not be a unique release.
  • gregorystitt over 3 years ago

    Based on my owning the disc, I can confirm it is not a stamp, nor a sticker, but is part of the design on the disc face.
  • cellularsmoke over 3 years ago

    While the presence of barcodes and/or catalog numbers are meaningless for determining if a release is Promotional - this release look entirely like it's a post-manufacture promotional item (meaning, it doesn't get its own release page).

    It doesn't have to be a "sticker" - grabbing a bunch of discs off the line and sending them through to have something added to the CD face doesn't automatically qualify it for Promo either.

    It might even need to be merged with the other release in the MR with it; full scans of that release should be uploaded to verify actual similarity.
  • gregorystitt over 3 years ago

    Holy crap, it's not a damn sticker. It's the exact same thing as http://www.discogs.com/Cassius-15-Again/release/2193431
  • Opdiner over 3 years ago

    There was a big discussion about this a few years back and I'm pretty sure a screened promo notice was not regarded as a unique entry. I can't find the thread but I'm sure Eviltoastman will have it at hand.
  • Eviltoastman over 3 years ago

    That's a heat transfer. it's not screen printing. It should be handled as retail.

    here's the thread, but even here we thought it was screen printing. it's actually thermal transfer. You can buy the kits at Staples and most promotional companies have them. It's post manufacture alteration.
    http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/272319
  • Opdiner over 3 years ago

    Eviltoastman
    ere's the thread, but even here we thought it was screen printing. it's actually thermal transfer. You can buy the kits at Staples and most promotional companies have them. It's post manufacture alteration.
    http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/272319


    And ETM arrives like the cavalry .. thank you :)
  • devin306 over 3 years ago

    stickfiguredistro
    a) Do promotional versions have the same catalog number as the retail version?

    b) Do promotional versions have barcodes?


    A) Sometimes.

    B) Sometimes.

    Why would anyone think there's any hard or fast rules regarding this?? Companies did and continue to do as they please.
  • stickfiguredistro over 3 years ago

    Hey everybody,

    Thanks for the input.

    I think Discogs should create some more specific rules for promotional items. The current stated criteria for unique releases is too vague in regards promotional items IMO.

    For instance, I've gotten into arguments with other users about items that have "For Promotional Use Only" stamped in gold ink on the front cover.

    take care,

    gavin
  • velove over 3 years ago

    stickfiguredistro
    For instance, I've gotten into arguments with other users about items that have "For Promotional Use Only" stamped in gold ink on the front cover.

    The guidelines clearly address this exact situation. Not a promo on discogs.
  • stickfiguredistro over 3 years ago

    Hey,

    Under the guidelines at 6.12.2 promos are specifically addressed. However in Database Guidelines 1. General Rules under Unique releases - 1.4.1 one is told to consult the forums if one has a question about whether or not something is a unique release.

    I think 1.4.1 should be edited to state that when in doubt one needs to check the rest of the database guidelines BEFORE being told that one should post a question to the Forum.

    take care,

    gavin

  • stickfiguredistro over 3 years ago

    Hey,

    Also, after thinking about this some more, I think the onus should be on the submitter to PROVE that a release with a barcode IS a promotional item.

    I think the default should be that ALL releases WITH a BARCODE default to being a retail version. The reason why I think this is because why would somebody put a barcode on a promotional item that is NOT meant to be sold? The whole purpose of a barcode is to HELP SELL an item.

    take care,

    gavin
  • Opdiner over 3 years ago

    No it's not - the purpose is to document an item in a catalogue or inventry and assign values to it, whatever the use.
  • Mr.Mystery over 3 years ago

    stickfiguredistro
    I think the default should be that ALL releases WITH a BARCODE default to being a retail version. The reason why I think this is because why would somebody put a barcode on a promotional item that is NOT meant to be sold? The whole purpose of a barcode is to HELP SELL an item.


    In a perfect world, maybe. I can't even remember how many times I've received a promo copy when I thought I was purchasing a retail copy. At least in electronic music it used to be very common for promo and retail be almost indistinguishable.
  • PabloPlato over 3 years ago

    gregorystitt
    Based on my owning the disc, I can confirm it is not a stamp, nor a sticker, but is part of the design on the disc face.


    is it screen printed to the disc face in the same manner as the rest of the ink?
    Eviltoastman
    That's a heat transfer. it's not screen printing. It should be handled as retail.


    heat transfer would melt the disc, no? many of the links in your foo fighter thread do not exist anymore, any chance you can dig up an image of a cd face with one of those heat transfers you speak of for comparisons sake?

    also, re: retail CDs sent through an additional step in the manufacturing process to receive a promotional indicator screen printed to the disc face, please see this thread http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/231700 where nik was all for allowing such borderline cases to be included into the database, and cvalda44 gave many examples where such promos are valid.
  • avalon67 over 3 years ago

    stickfiguredistro
    The reason why I think this is because why would somebody put a barcode on a promotional item that is NOT meant to be sold? The whole purpose of a barcode is to HELP SELL an item.


    But if a label used stock retail sleeves to house specially pressed promo discs then it would be perfectly acceptable to tag it promo.
  • PabloPlato over 3 years ago

    http://www.discogs.com/Alabama-3-Street-Angels-Choir-NYC-Woke-Up-This-Morning/release/4441843
    here is a release i have where the CD has a silkscreened PROMNOTIONAL text printed onto it but some think it is a stamp. it is not a stamp. it comes with a front and back cover, with a barcode on the back cover.

    strange thing is, i cannot find any evidence of a non-Promotional version. no one can provide evidence or a claim of owning a non-Promotional copy. all the sellers state that their copy states Promotional on it.

    here is a potential dupe sub that i think should be merged with the one above.

    http://www.discogs.com/Alabama-3-Street-Angels-Choir-NYC-Woke-Up-This-Morning/release/184866

    do others think it ought to be highjacked? i have been waiting for responses and no one has come forward with a claim of owning a non Promotional copy.

    sorry to highjack the thread, but it's related and i remembered this example and now that it's in the forefront of my mind i would like to resolve it.
  • stickfiguredistro over 3 years ago

    Hey Avalon67 and Mr Mystery,

    As I stated: "the onus should be on the submitter to PROVE that a release with a barcode IS a promotional item."

    The scenario that Avalon67 described of promotionally pressed discs packaged with the original packaging material is a VALID exception.

    If you can NOT provide pics that prove your item was manufactured to be a promo and it has a barcode it's most likely NOT a promo.

    PabloPlato, since the cd face art for BOTH of the releases that you mentioned look to be identical it's probably a valid promotional item. If it was a post manufactured alteration the position of "Promotional" on the cd face for each item in the photo's would be different.

    And Opdiner as I asked: "Why would somebody put a barcode on a promotional item that is NOT meant to be sold?" Please answer that question.

    take care,

    gavin
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 3 years ago

  • Eviltoastman over 3 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    Here you go
    http://www.discogs.com/search/?q=mazarati+japan+cd+wpcp-3707&type=all

    These Japanese CDs, some facts. The term Sample is applied to the mould or the CD face before leaving the factory (before release). In fact they're frequently stickered by the manufacturer too and all this occurs below the manufacturers shrinkwrap. This isn't post manufacture (or more relevantly post release) alteration and quite frequently the text is added to the CD to the mould which occurs during manufacture. A promoter or record company hasn't just taken some retail copies and affected them after release, they are made and assembled that way at the plant :)

    Nik:
    http://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/166164#2131756

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