• yuhann over 8 years ago

    yuhann edited over 8 years ago
    it seems quite common for electro/dance vinyl releases to have sides named like
    THIS SIDE / THAT SIDE
    LOGO SIDE / INFO SIDE
    ...

    should such info go to the index track?

    thanks.

    (edit grammar)
  • 8m2stereo over 8 years ago

    ^ can be done, and is very often seen on cogs ..

    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions .. The positions from the release are preferred.

    12.13.1. Index Tracks are used to denote groups of tracks (for example: movements in a musical piece, or where a range of tracks are given a collective title). Index tracks should never be used 'on their own', they should always refer to a group of audio tracks directly below.
  • DonHergeFan over 8 years ago

    Can we use an Index Track for onyl one track? Example: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Megahits-2000-Die-Zweite/release/1975677
  • kwulf over 8 years ago

    DonHergeFan
    Can we use an Index Track for onyl one track?


    Of course. A typical example would be "Bonus Track".
  • DonHergeFan over 8 years ago

    Allright, thank you.
  • punxtr over 8 years ago

    "12.13.5. Index tracks should not be used for denoting generic side, track position, or separate media data (for example, 'Side A', 'CD1' etc), track numbering is used for this.

    12.13.6. Index tracks should not be used for adding incidental information which belongs in the Release Notes. "

    I can interpret this to mean that simply saying "This Side / That Side" denotes generic side and is incidental.

    Also, when track titles are parsed it includes the Index Track. So each track would appear:

    Index Track Track Name

    or more specifically, an example:

    Label Side Yuhann Does Yoga Breaks

    :P

    It's incidental and should be placed in the Notes. I don't care how often it's been used, the Notes do the same thing and don't mess up how titles are parsed for data export.
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago

    Whenever I complain about how data appears awful in MRs, on exported, I get told that "we" don't care if it looks bad there, as long as the submission is correct.
    So why should we stop now?
    I've just been told in another thread that keeping track positions as they appear on releases (a, aa instead of A, AA, or One, Two ....Eight A, Eight B instead of A1, A2, A3....A8 etc) is correct. So what logic is behind allowing that and not allowing index tracks to be used for this?

    Also, This Side, That Side, Logo Side, are not generic imo. Also sometimes it's impossible to figure out which side is supposed to be A and which B, why submit wrongly-guessed information when you can be safe using what appears on the release?
  • wrongdoze over 8 years ago

    I am not 100% sure, but think I remember from another thread that "This Side" and "That Side" were considered generic and shouldn't be used as index tracks.
  • kwulf over 8 years ago

    wrongdoze
    "This Side" and "That Side" were considered generic


    Obviously for me, but not for everybody it seems.
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago

    Apparently it's all about opinions on here. Plus even the power people here change their minds regularly. What was forbidden months ago could be allowed now. Not really helpful.
  • punxtr over 8 years ago

    dollvalley
    imo

    Yep.
    wrongdoze
    I am not 100% sure, but think I remember from another thread that "This Side" and "That Side" were considered generic and shouldn't be used as index tracks.

    That is correct.

    kwulf
    Obviously for me, but not for everybody it seems.

    Same here.
    dollvalley
    Apparently it's all about opinions on here.

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not there own facts. I hate using my laptop... so I can search and link the few topics that agreed upon these index tracks as being generic later.
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago


    punxtr
    Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not there own facts. I hate using my laptop... so I can search and link the few topics that agreed upon these index tracks as being generic later.

    And like I said, you will find topics where people support your opinion, and people who support other opinions.
  • uzumaki over 8 years ago

    You can enter index tracks for This side and That Side. They aren't generic, the example in the guidelines mentions generic referring to CD1, A-side, Side 1 etc - this isn't the same. Besides, the sides have been named that way, we have the ability to show this on discogs release pages, why not show them like that.
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    punxtr
    "This Side / That Side" denotes generic side and is incidental.

    Agreed - the decisions made are different though.
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/207436#2583538
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/220377#2738842
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    double-happiness edited over 8 years ago
    uzumaki
    You can enter index tracks for This side and That Side. They aren't generic, the example in the guidelines mentions generic referring to CD1, A-side, Side 1 etc - this isn't the same. Besides, the sides have been named that way, we have the ability to show this on discogs release pages, why not show them like that.


    Absolutely! Mentioning such designations in the notes is just plain clumsy.

    dollvalley
    I've just been told in another thread that keeping track positions as they appear on releases (a, aa instead of A, AA, or One, Two ....Eight A, Eight B instead of A1, A2, A3....A8 etc) is correct. So what logic is behind allowing that and not allowing index tracks to be used for this?


    Huh? What is the logic behind mentioning one area of inetrpretation of the RSG to show that another area of the RSG is defunct?

    Incidentally...

    DonHergeFan Can we use an Index Track for onyl one track?

    kwulf
    Of course. A typical example would be "Bonus Track".


    Well, it depends how it's shown on the release actually...

    12.13.3. When bonus tracks / bonus content is identified on the release itself as a separate section of the release content, an index track can be used. However, when bonus tracks are identified with an asterisk, with a bonus track mention appended to the track title, a footnote or such like, do not use an index track, enter this in the release notes instead.
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago


    double-happiness
    dollvalley
    I've just been told in another thread that keeping track positions as they appear on releases (a, aa instead of A, AA, or One, Two ....Eight A, Eight B instead of A1, A2, A3....A8 etc) is correct. So what logic is behind allowing that and not allowing index tracks to be used for this?

    Huh? What is the logic behind mentioning one area of inetrpretation of the RSG to show that another area of the RSG is defunct?


    Indeed there is no logic in the handling of such issues on here and I'm pointing it out: on one side they are allowing track positions to follow the release design (as generic as it may be! One instead of "1"), all the while forsaking naming sides.
    However apparently they are not forsaking it since it was pointed out in the threads mentioned by SickMF.
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    So things like this would be correct then?

    That Side (Index Track)
    That Side 1 - Bla Bla
    That Side 2 - Track 2
    That Side 3 - Much Fun With Rob

    This Side (Index Track)
    This Side 1 - Another Track
    This Side 2 - Super Track
    This Side 3 - No Track

    ?
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    double-happiness edited over 8 years ago
    rassel
    So things like this would be correct then?

    That Side (Index Track)
    That Side 1 - Bla Bla
    That Side 2 - Track 2
    That Side 3 - Much Fun With Rob

    This Side (Index Track)
    This Side 1 - Another Track
    This Side 2 - Super Track
    This Side 3 - No Track

    ?


    Not to me (though I have seen it done, or something similar). The obvious problem how how to tell which is the A-side, even when matrices are entered in BaOI!

    12.2.7. For side identification, please use A, B etc in place of 1, 2, One, Two, Side One, Side Two etc, including variations in any language.

    Capitalisation rules only apply to artist, titles and labels so a / aa is acceptable, though I certainly wouldn't be voting against someone using the standard block cap positions.

    Come on folks, use your initiative and enter stuff in the best way you can, if the RSG are unclear take an educated guess what will be clearest and most helpful to other users. What's with all this 'tell us what to do, we don't want to use our own judgment!'?
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    Incidentally there is a bug that needs fixed it seems - index tracks show up under the master - see Various - Sirius Is A Freund (Archiv #01) for example. This could get tricky when people actually want the index tracks shown there - as in classical releases with 'Symphony X, Opus. Y' in the index.

    Still, the simple fact is there is only one other option if the marking is to be shown in the sub - a note along the lines of 'Side A is marked This Side, Side B is marked That Side'. Considering that...

    "The following items are forbidden from the release notes:

    * Any information that belongs in other specific sections of the release data."

    ...this use of the notes is arguably not just clumsy but plain wrong, IMO.
  • cameosis over 8 years ago

    if at all, it would have to be in reverse order -- "this" always precedes "that" (dieses -> this / jenes -> that):
    rassel
    This Side (Index Track)
    This Side 1 - Another Track
    This Side 2 - Super Track
    This Side 3 - No Track

    That Side (Index Track)
    That Side 1 - Bla Bla
    That Side 2 - Track 2
    That Side 3 - Much Fun With Rob

  • rassel over 8 years ago

    cameosis
    if at all, it would have to be in reverse order -- "this" always precedes "that" (dieses -> this / jenes -> that):

    Hmm, why? Usually the logo side is the A-side and contains the lower matrix number. As the center label text has to be on the other side, the B-side, the tracklisting must start with That Side (A-side).
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    cameosis
    "this" always precedes "that" (dieses -> this / jenes -> that):


    No.

    175 Crew - East Coast Killa / Terrordome
    Joy Orbison - Hyph Mngo / Wet Look
    OD404 - High Volume

    etc.
  • punxtr over 8 years ago

    We need to agree upon some standards before we start doing what is obvious: preferring our own standards.
  • Tokeowave over 8 years ago

    Tokeowave edited over 8 years ago
    Keep this general rule in mind. All info is to be documented as on release except as mentioned per guidelines for standardization purposes.

    Some people do do the "This Side" as index tracks and get away with it, but it does not mean its correct. Things like that sometimes fall through the cracks and just needs to be updated or corrected is all.

    So A) "full word" side designations is for notes. B) Subtitling for sections of material should go into Index Tracks.

    Nothing difficult about this.

    Edit: P.S. There is a difference in purpose between text as side designations and text that is for subtitling a section of material.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    djindio edited over 8 years ago
    "This Side" usually denotes the side with the printed information on it 'info side', opposite of the "That Side" which usually denotes the 'logo'. Either can be A or B depending on the label.

    This/That = Non-generic IMO.

    Side 1/2, Side One/Two, Side A/B, A/B & A/AA = Generic IMO.
  • ahlbomper over 8 years ago

    djindio
    Side 1/2, Side One/Two, Side A/B, A/B & A/AA = Generic IMO.

    does that mean that the guidelines suggest to use capitalized A, B... as side designations instead of other generic side designations ?

    http://www.discogs.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-trk.html#Position
    "12.2.7. For side identification, please use A, B etc in place of 1, 2, One, Two, Side One, Side Two etc, including variations in any language."
  • cameosis over 8 years ago

    rassel
    Hmm, why?

    i go by language definition:

    (quick links)

    -> this: Used to indicate the nearer or the more immediate one: This is mine and that is yours.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/this

    -> that: Used to indicate the farther or less immediate one: That is for sale; this is not.
    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/that

    as to the matrix numbers, while you are correct that often the logo side (or "that" side) is the "a-side", this is not always true -- lower matrix numbers do not necessarily correspond to the logo side.

    effectively, you'd have to use the matrix numbers as indicators, not the designation on the label.
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago

    I fail to see why defining the proximity of "this" and "that" helps defining side A and B. Not to mention that they are not always the same, not all labels follow conventions, if there are any.
  • Tokeowave over 8 years ago

    Tokeowave edited over 8 years ago
    Any side designations: this, that, here, there, up, down, over, under, left, right, upside down, inside up, up the crotch, down the crotch, logo side, non-logo side, etc...all go in notes.

    djindio
    "This Side" usually denotes the side with the printed information on it 'info side', opposite of the "That Side" which usually denotes the 'logo'. Either can be A or B depending on the label.


    AND for the most part, you can tell which side is A or B by runout groove/matrix.

    ahlbomper
    does that mean that the guidelines suggest to use capitalized A, B... as side designations instead of other generic side designations ?


    seems like it. tried it way, way back and got told to change it so now i just do it like the above.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    djindio edited over 8 years ago
    Tokeowave
    Any side designations: this, that, here, there, up, down, over, under, left, right, upside down, inside up, up the crotch, down the crotch, logo side, non-logo side, etc...all go in notes.

    That is not the perferred method, where do you even get that idea from?

    They either go in the Tracklisting Pos.:
    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions (see below). The positions from the release are preferred.

    ...or Index Track:
    12.13.4. Index Tracks should be used only when the release divides itself into named sections in some way. They can be used to enter special titles given to release sides or different media, if so done on the release.

    ...depending on the nature of the usage on the release.

    http://www.discogs.com/help/submission-guidelines-release-trk.html#Insert_Index_Track
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    SickMF edited over 8 years ago
    cameosis
    as to the matrix numbers, while you are correct that often the logo side (or "that" side) is the "a-side", this is not always true -- lower matrix numbers do not necessarily correspond to the logo side.

    Or in short, they're casual and arbitrary.

    Index tracks of any content are not necessary for side identification in any way (except for vinyl releases which lack side-identifying run-out etchings - are there any?). Track positions and track titles are already explicit as can be for that. Once the track titles have been transcribed from the labels or cover and assigned to sides, most cleary either by print (if positions are available on the release) or by etchings, they are the closest and most obvious reference points.

    Transcribing "This" and "That" as index tracks effectually only serves documenting wether "This" and "That" are used on the release.

    Edit: grammar.
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    I am still convinced that the most logic and consistant method to add side names / positions would be:

    - All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.
    - Track positions MUST be added as A1, A2 and so on.

    Everything else leads to everlasting discussions and uncertainty. Also track positions as This Side 1 are ridiculous, imagine credits like
    Trumpet, Harp: Artist X (Tracks: This Side 1 to This Side 3, Logo Side 2, Logo Side 4, Other Side 7 to Other Side 9).
  • cameosis over 8 years ago

    rassel
    - All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.
    - Track positions MUST be added as A1, A2 and so on.

    word.
  • Tokeowave over 8 years ago

    djindio
    That is not the perferred method, where do you even get that idea from?


    From past subbing. That's why I said:

    Tokeowave
    seems like it. tried it way, way back and got told to change it so now i just do it like the above.


    Could be a misinterpretation on a moderator or voter's part in the past suggested I make the change but I just stuck to that idea after that. And in track positions use Discogs standardization.

    Gosh, I wish they'd fix the preview feature already.
  • Staff 3.1k

    nik over 8 years ago

    This / That is fine as index tracks if used like that on the release. The guidelines would mention if they were considered generic - they are not.

    rassel
    So things like this would be correct then?

    That Side (Index Track)
    That Side 1 - Bla Bla
    That Side 2 - Track 2
    That Side 3 - Much Fun With Rob

    This Side (Index Track)
    This Side 1 - Another Track
    This Side 2 - Super Track
    This Side 3 - No Track

    ?


    No, it is not helpful and probably not correct to use the same thing as index track and side position. Use the index tracks, then A1, A2... B1, b2 etc.

  • hermanito over 8 years ago

    rassel
    I am still convinced that the most logic and consistant method to add side names / positions would be:

    - All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.
    - Track positions MUST be added as A1, A2 and so on.

    Everything else leads to everlasting discussions and uncertainty. Also track positions as This Side 1 are ridiculous, imagine credits like
    Trumpet, Harp: Artist X (Tracks: This Side 1 to This Side 3, Logo Side 2, Logo Side 4, Other Side 7 to Other Side 9).

    I fully concur.
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    thanks for clarifying this.
  • hermanito over 8 years ago

    Nice example where I'd like to make some changes. But not without asking here first.
    DJ Duke Presents Clubpeople* Featuring Ela'n - Party Time (Remixes)
  • dollvalley over 8 years ago


    nik
    This / That is fine as index tracks if used like that on the release. The guidelines would mention if they were considered generic - they are not.

    Does it mean that every time the guidelines give a couple of examples followed by "etc", the examples list ends there and everything else is allowed then? Another instance the guidelines need updating.

    nik
    o, it is not helpful and probably not correct to use the same thing as index track and side position. Use the index tracks, then A1, A2... B1, b2 etc.

    While I understand why this is, I don't understand why you won't allow it, but allow track positions for vinyl to be submitted as on release (One, Two, Eight A, Eight B) and make us decide which of the This/That sides is going to be A and B for track positions, creating something that is foreign to the actual release. There's no consistency with your rulings.
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    hermanito
    Nice example where I'd like to make some changes. But not without asking here first.
    DJ Duke Presents Clubpeople* Featuring Ela'n - Party Time (Remixes)

    Off with those positions, replace with standard ones. Index tracks only. Compare http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/207436#2585285
  • hermanito over 8 years ago

    Yes very familiar topic :)
    I'll go change it then.
  • punxtr over 8 years ago

    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/207436#2586582

    I feel like these topics are going to keep coming back until we fix something up officially, rather than using et cetera...
  • cameosis over 8 years ago

    hermanito
    Yes very familiar topic :)
    I'll go change it then.


    you have reverted the sides ... why? the tracklist indicates the order was correct (not talking about the indexing terms) as it was.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    djindio edited over 8 years ago
    ahlbomper
    does that mean that the guidelines suggest to use capitalized A, B

    No. Although using capitalized A & B is standard Discogs practice and has been for some time, there is NOT a written rule to replace "a" with "A".
    "12.2.7. For side identification, please use A, B etc in place of 1, 2, One, Two, Side One, Side Two etc, including variations in any language."

    The A and the B are capitalized in the 12.2.7 sentence for emphasis, the same reason I capitalized "NOT" in my sentence above this one. Would you also argue that only "Side One" should be replaced with standard side indicators and "side one" should not be replaced? I think not.
  • ahlbomper over 8 years ago

    djindio
    Would you also argue that only "Side One" should be replaced with standard side indicators and "side one" should not be replaced?

    no, they are equally generic designations, capitalized or not.

    it used to be a firm rule that the A, B... should be capitalized (agreed?)
    if we replace other side designations which we consider generic, with standard designations, wouldn't it make sense that they are capitalized as standard ?
  • ahlbomper over 8 years ago

    would it be ok to tell the submitter of Euclid Beach Band - The Euclid Beach Band to replace a & b with A & B here ?
    (along with the other things which i have just commented at that history)
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    ahlbomper
    would it be ok to tell the submitter of Euclid Beach Band - The Euclid Beach Band to replace a & b with A & B here ?
    (along with the other things which i have just commented at that history)

    Yes, the guidelines are designed to either use the positions on release (if reasonable/possible) or the Discogs standard, not to use whatever else one prefers.
    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions (see below). The positions from the release are preferred.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    djindio edited over 8 years ago
    ahlbomper
    it used to be a firm rule that the A, B... should be capitalized (agreed?)

    Yes, as I remember that was an unwritten rule (back in the 'mod' era). Going strictly by to todays guidelines however, it does appear that lowercase 'a / b' side indicators are allowed only if that is how it's printed on the release because of:
    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions (see below). The positions from the release are preferred.

    .
    ahlbomper
    if we replace other side designations which we consider generic, with standard designations, wouldn't it make sense that they are capitalized as standard ?

    Yes, I agree, in my personal opinion, if other/generic side indicators are being replaced with "A/B" then they should be capitalized. I am not sure if the current guidelines clearly suggest this however. (It would be nice if it was clear in the guidelines)
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    djindio
    I am not sure if the current guidelines clearly suggest this however. (It would be nice if it was clear in the guidelines)

    It is. Either as-on-release or standard positions are to be used.
    Anything else made up is not valid.

    Maybe 12.2.2. is useful to be worded more strictly in that regard.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    SickMF
    Maybe 12.2.2. is useful to be worded more strictly in that regard.


    A small tweek to 12.2.7. would do:
    12.2.7. For side identification, please use A, B etc in place of 1, 2, One, Two, Side One, Side Two etc, including variations in any language.

    -to->
    12.2.7. For side identification, please use capital A, B, etc, in place of 1, 2, One, Two, Side One, Side Two, Side A, Side B, etc, including variations in any language.
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    "A, B" is explicit enough being capitalized.

    This is also just one case. Including an "either ... or" into 12.2.2. grabs it by the root.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    SickMF
    "A, B" is explicit enough being capitalized.

    This is also just one case. Including an "either ... or" into 12.2.2. grabs it by the root.


    So basically you are asking for some sort of forced capitalization rule even on releases that have lower case side indicators?
  • carpelux over 8 years ago

    Would this release: http://www.discogs.com/release/2624082 be considerd right according to the track indexes?

    It's a split 7" Vinyl Single where each artist is on one side as main artist.
  • wrongdoze over 8 years ago

    carpelux
    Would this release: http://www.discogs.com/release/2624082 be considerd right according to the track indexes?

    That has to be the most messed up track positions I have ever seen on Discogs.
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    ^ Commented. It just ruins the appearance of the entry to use that approach. Let's have some consideration for useability here, folks.
  • carpelux over 8 years ago

    I agree it looked very messed up, so I changed it according to your comment Double-happiness.

    Looks better now!

    Thanks for the help!
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    djindio
    So basically you are asking for some sort of forced capitalization rule even on releases that have lower case side indicators?

    Not at all.
    I have said wording the exact 12.2.2. guideline just with "either" included would be more clear to avoid anyone using any positions other than either the ones on the release or the Discogs standard.
  • djindio over 8 years ago

    SickMF
    12.2.2. guideline just with "either" included would be more clear

    OK, I see now, that would be a positive change.

    SickMF
    "A, B" is explicit enough being capitalized.

    I have to say that 12.2.7. is suggestive but definitely not explicit and not 100% clear to all users as it is now.
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    another example how things should not be done, imho: Six Organs Of Admittance / Azul (4) - Six Organs Of Admittance / Azul

    [edit] emphasis
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    yuhann
    another example how things should not be done, imho: Six Organs Of Admittance / Azul (4) - Six Organs Of Admittance / Azul


    Aargh! Horrible! This is just going to open up a whole horrible can of worms with all sorts of nonsense track postions based on some hippie's scribbling on the labels. Boo!

    Now I so much want to EI this but am torn between

    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions (see below). The positions from the release are preferred.

    and

    12.13.4. Index Tracks should be used only when the release divides itself into named sections in some way. They can be used to enter special titles given to release sides or different media, if so done on the release.

    RSG = FAIL, IMO. We need to have some clear-cut criteria for what should be used for the track positions or for the indeces.

    This Side A / That Side B I could just about stomach but when the positions numbering "needs to be under fifteen characters long, and can use lower-case or mixed case letters" we are in for all sorts of fun and games.

    For pete's sake, was A1, A2, B1, B2 not nice?
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    double-happiness
    For pete's sake, was A1, A2, B1, B2 not nice?

    I just repeat myself, I know, but it's still my opinion:
    rassel
    I am still convinced that the most logic and consistant method to add side names / positions would be:

    - All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.
    - Track positions MUST be added as A1, A2 and so on.

  • hermanito over 8 years ago

    I might repeat myself too, but I agree 100% with rassel
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    ^ Yeah, I'm with you, but I don't see the point of 'Side 1' / 'Side 2' indeces at all though. It obvious, so long as you can count to 2 (that wasn't meant to be sarcastic).
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    rassel edited over 8 years ago
    double-happiness
    I don't see the point of 'Side 1' / 'Side 2' indeces at all though.

    Because:
    - It doesn't hurt, be it Side 1, Side A or This Side whatever
    - It's a fantastic possibility for our obsessed to update Side 1 to Side A ;)
    - It gets useful if you've got three or more records in one release

  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    yuhann edited over 8 years ago
    double-happiness
    12.2.2. You can enter the positions from release, or using the Discogs standard positions (see below). The positions from the release are preferred.

    and

    12.13.4. Index Tracks should be used only when the release divides itself into named sections in some way. They can be used to enter special titles given to release sides or different media, if so done on the release.


    I do not own the release but according to the scans both RSG 12.2.2. & 12.13.4. apply here and are not opposed to each other.

    [edit]
    All I want to say is that there's nothing to be torn about (that said, I'm not a big fan of negative votes though, as it tends to trigger a more negatory reaction rather than being educational, imho).
  • double-happiness over 8 years ago

    yuhann
    I'm not a big fan of negative votes though, as it tends to trigger a more negatory reaction rather than being educational, imho


    Yeah, same here, but I won't vote + either.
  • loukash over 8 years ago

    rassel
    double-happiness
    I don't see the point of 'Side 1' / 'Side 2' indeces at all though.

    Because:
    - It doesn't hurt, be it Side 1, Side A or This Side whatever
    - It's a fantastic possibility for our obsessed to update Side 1 to Side A ;)
    - It gets useful if you've got three or more records in one release

    I don't see any value in adding "Side 1 / Side 2" either, but if I should choose between rassel's proposal and a "whole horrible can of worms with all sorts of nonsense track postions based on some hippie's scribbling on the labels", I could definitely live with "Side 1"/"Side 2" index tracks.
  • muntz over 8 years ago

    double-happiness
    Now I so much want to EI this but am torn

    you'd better read the voting guidelines first

    anyway, feel free to change these submissions too: Blitzoids - Look Up and Exhaust - Exhaust (where i found the old guideline: "More creative track positions such as "Up, Down" (for example) are acceptable if under fifteen characters long, and were listed like that on the release.")
  • loukash over 8 years ago

    muntz
    i found the old guideline

    The point of this discussion is less whether it is allowed or not (it is, unfortunately), rather than if such a guideline is a Good Thing™ or not (it isn't, as some of us have unmistakably pointed out).
  • SickMF over 8 years ago

    loukash
    I don't see any value in adding "Side 1 / Side 2" either, but if I should choose between rassel's proposal and a "whole horrible can of worms with all sorts of nonsense track postions based on some hippie's scribbling on the labels", I could definitely live with "Side 1"/"Side 2" index tracks.

    Very reasonable.

    I'd even go further and toss the "This" & "That" ones. "This Side" of what? A vinyl disc I won't happen to hold in my hands most of the time while reading the database? Useful.
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    rassel
    I am still convinced that the most logic and consistant method to add side names / positions would be:

    - All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.
    - Track positions MUST be added as A1, A2 and so on.

    Apart from the generic nature of Side 1, Side A and the likes, what else is it if not a designation for a groupment of tracks after all?
    At least rassel came up with a straightforward proposal.

    Therefore:
    loukash
    if I should choose between rassel's proposal and a "whole horrible can of worms with all sorts of nonsense track postions based on some hippie's scribbling on the labels", I could definitely live with "Side 1"/"Side 2" index tracks.

    +1

    [edit] typo
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    yuhann edited over 8 years ago
    And according to rassel's proposal, I would even go further and scrub the A, B, C, D prefixes from the track position to get something more like this:

    Side A (Index track)
    1
    2
    3

    Side B (Index track)
    1
    2
    3

    [edit] typo
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    yuhann
    would even go further and scub the A, B, C, D prefixes from the track position to get something more like this:

    Side A (Index track)
    1
    2
    3


    Well, this is really short, but I fear we would run in troubles when we need to credit the artists in the general credit section and should specify the tracks they're credited for. 1 will not be unique and credits like
    Tracks: (Side A 1, Side A 3, Side B 2)
    will be a bit clumsy.
  • rassel over 8 years ago

    Another thing about the "generic" nature of side names:

    As far as I'm aware all Azuli Records 12" have side names as "This Side" and "That Side", so these names are quite generic too....
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    rassel
    All kind of side names are allowed to be added as index track, be it This Side, Logo Side, Side 1 or whatever.

    such a guideline would simply avoid discussions about the generic nature of side names, and that's a Good Thing™ (as loukash would say...)
  • yuhann over 8 years ago


    rassel
    1 will not be unique and credits like
    Tracks: (Side A 1, Side A 3, Side B 2)
    will be a bit clumsy.

    point taken.
  • yuhann over 8 years ago

    another index track case: Sun Circle - Tapes
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2620296

    opinions please.
  • kwulf over 8 years ago

    yuhann
    another index track case: Sun Circle - Tapes
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=2620296

    opinions please.


    fine for me

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