• jmverville over 12 years ago

    Ticket:
    Skrewdriver
    English Rose
    Skullhead
    Pluton Svea
    Brutal Attack
    Angry Aryans
    Midtown Bootboys
    The People Haters, etc....

    Yes, it is a genre that is chalk-full of racist bands. It was started as a reaction to the 'Rock Against Racism' movement in the late seventies, and pioneered by Skrewdriver and other bands.

    In fact, Ian Stuart, lead singer of Skrewdriver, officially desired to break away from the genre we have in the database, "Oi," feeling that it was not an accurate represntation of his musical style as well as it having been hijacked by the left wing, and that associating their music in those genres would be fundamentally wrong.

    For anyone to contribute releases of the above bands and not classify them as 'Rock Against Communism' one would be fundamentally and categorically wrong. Ask any skinhead (traditional, Skin Head Against RAcial Prejudice, or bonehead racist skinhead) and the above bands are certainly not going to fit into any other category than Rock Against Communism.

    Thus, we need to allow RAC as a subgenre.

    A lot of people do not want to have racist bands on here... But would we be the definitive collection of music if they were not?

    Just saying, we need the subgenre. It is a very clear and distinct subgenre and rock music would be different without out. Legitimate non-racist, anti-racist Oi! bands like the Youth Defense League have covered RAC songs, etc.

    I am anti-racist, and I am sure the overwhelming majority of us are, but I am also anti-Communist and I am not a liberal or a ultra-conservative and I would never disallow some subgenre that was characteristically of that.

    I hope the problem is resolved. Thanks.
  • Jayfive over 12 years ago

    Oh great, sytyle defined by the polictics of the artists and not the music they actually make. Stalin on a bike....
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    i need my pills. what a load of crap.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    ok, sorry for "crap" but still.... jayfive nails it.
  • tracerfirefm over 12 years ago

    lets have kkk-hop and nigger-hanging beats while were at it... make shitcogs complete...
  • technosapien over 12 years ago

    out of curiousity, do you all know the personal politics of every artist whose albums you have submitted or have in your collection?

    because i don't...
  • Jayfive over 12 years ago

    And theres no bloody chance of getting a style in for a short-lived movement consisting of a dozen or so bands - I have no personal preference but theres no way youd justify this to the Discogs big cheeses.
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    I totally agree with the addition of RAC as a genre.
    There's slightly more than a dozen bands - you'll be unpleasantly surprised.
  • Europeen over 12 years ago

    the only error was to build a rockcogs....

    And for the first album of Skewdriver, it's not really RAC, we can add it lol ?
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    Actually, I withdraw my agreement after some thought.
    Let's just keep the genres as the music sounds without giving actual acknowledgement to what it is and it's political stance. That'll just add fuel to the fire I think.

    I'm sure I'll be expanding on any addition of the first album....
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    Ticket updated.
  • tracerfirefm over 12 years ago

    as knuckles said 2 posts above
  • Jayfive over 12 years ago

    So that means mods can reject comments on the grounds they concern the politics of the band? Sounds good to me :p
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    lol
  • mayday over 12 years ago

    IF anyone agrees with this genre we really ARE fucked
  • mayday over 12 years ago

    fucking racist nazi cuntscabs
  • donnacha over 12 years ago

    Exactly, shit, what's next - anarcho-punk? Agit-pop?
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    I think we should all just start listing some styles/genres that actually DO need to be in the database. because some of the choices are just too too broad.

    I think we need Crust Punk as a genre.. 'cause there's a world of difference between so called "punk" like Green Day and shit like Assfort.
  • aeternox over 12 years ago

    We need Musique concrète as a genre.
  • pbl3 over 12 years ago

    Lets also add:

    Electro Against Gays
    Japanese Pop Against Jews
    Glitch Against Free Market Capitalism
    Free Jazz Against Abortion
  • pbl3 over 12 years ago

    That was sarcasm by the way if it wasn't glaringly obvious.

    I don't think we should be in the business of defining musical genres by philosophies or political beliefs. Genres should be based strictly on musical and structure and sound characteristics. There are political differences between "hardcore" and "straight edge hardcore" - those differences are best left outside of "genre," which is there to denote a particular sound. Rather those differences should be in the social realm. Every band has different social messages and beiefs- but that is not how we define musical genres. Simple as that.

    PS - If it was up to me, I would keep as much blatantly racist music out of the database to begin with. I consider it below art, and somewhat equivalent to porn sites that would consider allowing snuff, etc..
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    and we need bossa nova. that is unless it's been added already.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    "I think we need Crust Punk as a genre.. 'cause there's a world of difference between so called "punk" like Green Day and shit like Assfort."

    "and we need bossa nova."

    Exactly.
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    Crust can be expanded pretty much with punk, hardcore and grind
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    hmm... meaning what exactly?
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    That crust is not necessary as a new standalone genre.
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    yeah yeah, but with that being said... do we need all THIS???

    House
    Acid House
    Deep House
    Euro House
    Garage House
    Hard House
    Progressive House
    Tech House
    Tribal House

    crust is as specific as any of these fucking house genres!
  • Jayfive over 12 years ago

    Except for possibly tribal, those are perfectly valid and distinct genres. Maybe some blurring between progressive and tech house as well.
  • Mistah-Wedding-Deejay over 12 years ago

    i don,t think racism should be allowed in discogs... one off my local pub footy team is a skinhead but hes hn0T Racest tho he likes reggae etc and thwere was some racist graffiti on my house once but i coleaned it off

    mauron
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    well Jayfive, that WAS my point.
    those are valid... as crust is to rock.
    as bossa nova is to jazz
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    No, as punk is to rock. Crust is a tiny part of it which can be reasonably described by punk, hardcore and grind.
    *that* is my point...
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    hah well you're crazy then.
    hmm I think you're missing what I'm saying or how I'm saying it... 'cause you're nuts if you think labeling a release with Punk, grind, and hardcore automatically means you can assume it's crust. 'cause it doesn't.

    if fucking House can have a billion sub-sub-sub genres.. what's the fucking hold up with splitting rock genres as such?

    I mean grind has little to do with crust at all... and when I hear grind.. I do NOT think of crust.
  • stffn over 12 years ago

    isn't it called White Core ??
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    hah well you're crazy then.

    um, fuck off, i post here to suggest ways of streamlining the site and i get this shit. nice...
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    My gist, which you have unfortunately ignored, is that Discogs has generally held back on opening sub-sub genres where-ever a mixture of already existing genres has been enough. Two excellent examples are 'power electronics' and 'rhythmic noise' which have been under discussion many times. If you understand consistency, you will understand my objection for the addition of this any other sub-punk genres. Now, if there was a punkogs or whatever, then there would be no problem (and I'd be happy to give anarcho punk the thumbs up too!) and we can add many punk sub genres. But since there are also many genres (and sub-) outside punk, the last thing we wish to do is create clutter, which has so far successfully been avoided in the original version of Discogs.

    As an extension of the original post. It is a shame that the editor who closed the ticket did so in an overt reactionary nature whereas people have recently been able to discuss this in an adult manner. A nice example for all....
  • Christopher_Jion over 12 years ago

    fucking hell chill out. didn't realise you were so damn sensitive.
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    read your post one the 6th then ask who needs to chill out
  • donnacha over 12 years ago

    The most annoying missing subgenre is darkwave - it's 100% electronic Goth music. Look at this thread, the closest style is Goth Rock, but that's in the Rock genre. Industrial and synthpop are less correct.
  • la-voie-du-sabre over 12 years ago

    jmverville.. no surprise.
  • Finn over 12 years ago

    Indeed.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    Agreed donnacha, darkwave is sorely missing... tired of having to label submissions as EBM, Electro, Industrial, Synth-pop, or a combination thereof.
  • jmverville over 12 years ago

    I am not a racist, and I do not agree with the politics of all the music that I listen to. If I did, I would be a homosexual Nazi Third Positionist Anarcho-Communist Corporatist against circumcision (unless it is of an unborn fetus).

    RAC has a distinct style from Oi! music.

    Brutal Attack, Skullhead, Pluton Svea, etc. all have a style that is slower than a lot of Oi as far as tempo, yet cannot be called regular rock or metal being that it has hardcore vocals (though obviously not hardcore style).

    If we did not have the subgenre I would have to admit: I would feel fundamentally wrong calling Brutal Attack or Skullhead Oi music, and I would also feel wrong +not+ calling it RAC.

    RAC music does consist of many bands, and it is expanding and growing as a genre (whether you like it or not).

    And the point has to be made: a lot of electronic music nuts can easily say that 'there doesn't need to be another rock subgenre, it will make clutter...' But at the same time, I do not think that a lot of people understand that RAC, for all intensive purposes, REALLY, TRULY is independent in sound and in its' essence.

    The differences between RAC and Oi/Punk/Hardcore/Metal/etc. is all extraordinarily clear to a lot of those who listen to the music.

    There should be racist music on the Ogs: not because it is racist, but because it is music. There is music of many political beliefs represented, and many lifestyles represented; I am just here to complete my record collection and learn more about music. I am not ar acist nor do I wish to promote racism.

    ALSO...

    I would support adding Crust, being that it is certainly distinct from Green Day and the likes ine very way, shape, and form. Crust would be able to embrace the entire 'tough as nails anarcho-commie-killyourself-vomit-punk' genre.
    ------

    I am no racist. I am a Korean linguist who stands in awe of Eastern cultural, political, and social achievements just as much as I do of Western. But I have some RAC in my collection, and it needs a home. It would feel wrong to put it anywhere else.
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    I've heard a lot of RAC and you can see my position from my addition to the ticket. The early stuff can be classed as Oi, take Brutal Attack's first LP for example. It's classic stuff, but musically, you wouldnt be able to give it it's own bracket. Later RAC is essentially hard rock though, do you not think? Understandably, it's a little more rougher and more amatuerish and they can't sing that well, but put the same music in a different mould and I think it's reasonable to just give it a hard rock tag.
    Crust vs Green Day -> hardcore, punk, grind vs pop rock, punk.

    Please dont think I'm trying to be a spoilsport by not extending genres, hopefully what I said above about put some sorts of limits on genre creation is somewhat valid.
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    BTW verville, be interested in seeing what you have!
  • jmverville over 12 years ago

    Knuckles, after I made that post I went back and read what you said in the ticket, and it is making sense, overall. And to be honest, you are right as far as one being able to put a lot of the RAC into one genre of another; although it could, theoretically, all fit together and have certain themes in common, you would be right in saying that it can be divided up.

    Same with the Crust, etc.

    I recognize your point, and I am willing to accept it.

    And Knuckles, I'll keep what I have coming. :) Plan on slowly pushing it all on through.
  • aeternox over 12 years ago

    Why add splinter faction homemade music genres when we don't even have 'musique concrète', a genre of eminent importance for the history of music?
  • Knuckles over 12 years ago

    I wouldnt go as far as saying they're homemade!
  • Spankwa over 12 years ago

    You can always just use a style and then in the notes add a more specific style that doesn't exist in the drop-down selection list...

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