• S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Hello!

    There was a band from Sweden. They released 5 albums under the name Morgana Lefay. Then they split up in two fractions.

    One fraction got the rights to the name Morgana Lefay and released one self-titled album.

    The other fraction took the name Lefay and released 2 albums.

    Depending on how you see it, this is 1, 2 or 3 bands ("Morgana A", Lefay and "Morgana B").

    Then it gets more tricky. Morgana Lefay split up and Lefay changed their name back to Morgana Lefay ("Morgana C")!

    Morgana A, B, C are of course only used here to tell the bands apart in this discussion, they don't mean that I think they should be 3 different bands.

    Wikipedia treats A, Lefay and C as the same band, so does the band themselves. http://morganalefay.se/biography/
    None even mention the self-titled album (which, if it matters, has a different sound than the others which go in the same vain).

    I take the liberty to speak for the fans, who agree with the view of the band.

    Personally, I have no problem with using the same artist for all, with an ANV for Lefay. This has also already been done for most releases. Apart from the compilations it seems.

    But I'd like some input on this. Tagging some people who have been active on the band's releases.
    yourobituary Oaken_Shield Killian600 Gundozer c4d4v3r Fladder72
  • Gundozer over 2 years ago

    Gundozer edited over 2 years ago
    I was about to start this and even wrote something like this today since I saw there was a user just changed it all...but gave it up and got tired.
    My view is the Lefay part of band releases should stay as Lefay and the Morgana Lefay before and after is of course Morgana Lefay. So I think the adding of ANV for this was not correct edits.

    ( And hey thanks for the reminder -I never even heard the Morgana Leafy self titled thing there. Must look for it on spotify or something. )
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Gundozer
    My view is the Lefay part of band releases should stay as Lefay and the Morgana Lefay before and after is of course Morgana Lefay. So I think the adding of ANV for this was not correct edits.


    Thanks for your input! This has bugged me for a long time but because of the edits today, I had to do something.

    Why do you consider S.O.S. and Grand Materia to be released by different bands? To me they are two albums by the same band, only one with an ANV.
  • Gundozer over 2 years ago

    Well It's hard to "un-learn" something and I remember the band Lefay as Lefay when I listened to it/bought CDs and the releases before Leafy was Morgana Leafy. They where not the same even if of course the sound/vocals are the same. he he...And I actually never bought the later releases after SOS. So I need an updated listening on those as well..
    But I rather see this solved by rules/guidelines or what do we have that decide this? (other cases as example?)
    Not just feelings and suggestions?
  • phallancz over 2 years ago

    Gundozer
    (other cases as example?)

    only case i remember was the division of Faust into Faust (6) & Faust (7) but they never reunited as Faust
    and i cannot find the discussion for this example
  • yourobituary over 2 years ago

    To be honest i think we should seperate Morgana Lefay and Lefay into 2 different bands. I have 10 releases from Morgana Lefay and 3 releases from Lefay. It was meant to be another band anyway. I see it like Entombed going further like Entombed A.D.. They are listed as 2 different bands and not as ANV.
    For me...releases Lefay - The Seventh Seal / Lefay - Symphony Of The Damned / Lefay - SOS should be releases under "Lefay" and all the others under "Morgana Lefay".
    All Morgana Lefay releases, whether it is A, B or C can be combined under 1 name.
    But...that is just my opinion.
    yourobituary
  • c4d4v3r over 2 years ago

    In 1997, Morgana Lefay split apart. Persson, Heder and Soderling relocated to Stockholm, leaving Rytkönen and Eriksson to find new members. Contractual disputes with Black Mark ended with Rytkönen and Eriksson (along with new members from Fantasmagoria) having to change name to simply Lefay. Persson, Heder and Soderling recorded an album under the Morgana Lefay name, but only to get rid of contractual obligations. The album is not recognised by the current incarnation of the band.

    In September of 2004 Lefay resigned with Black Mark and regained the rights to use their full name.

    Peter Grehn previously filled in on tour between Tommi Karppanen leaving and Daniel Persson joining.

    Morgana Lefay went into another period of inactivity following the release of "Aberrations of the Mind" in 2007 and did not regroup again until 2012.
  • c4d4v3r over 2 years ago

  • c4d4v3r over 2 years ago

    For me Morgana Lefay and Lefay it's the same band. The band has always considered. if you look at the band's website, they consider lefay albums in the discography of Morgana Lefay. Even reissued the first album as Lefay.
    I think the opinion of the band that counts.

    Also passed something similar with Cemetary, which left Black Mark and had to change its name (Cemetary 1213). Then return to Black Mark and they retook the name of Cemetary
  • c4d4v3r over 2 years ago

    1998:
    Under the name of LEFAY (modified for legal reasons), the band recorded the album “The Seventh Seal”, now signed to the label of Noise Records. (From Morgana Lefay web)
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Gundozer
    My view is the Lefay part of band releases should stay as Lefay

    Gundozer
    Well It's hard to "un-learn" something and I remember the band Lefay as Lefay when I listened to it/bought CDs and the releases before Leafy was Morgana Leafy. They where not the same even if of course the sound/vocals are the same. he he...And I actually never bought the later releases after SOS. So I need an updated listening on those as well..
    But I rather see this solved by rules/guidelines or what do we have that decide this? (other cases as example?) Not just feelings and suggestions?


    Agree but can't find anything in the guidelines.

    yourobituary
    To be honest i think we should seperate Morgana Lefay and Lefay into 2 different bands. I have 10 releases from Morgana Lefay and 3 releases from Lefay. It was meant to be another band anyway. I see it like Entombed going further like Entombed A.D.. They are listed as 2 different bands and not as ANV.
    For me...releases Lefay - The Seventh Seal / Lefay - Symphony Of The Damned / Lefay - SOS should be releases under "Lefay" and all the others under "Morgana Lefay".
    All Morgana Lefay releases, whether it is A, B or C can be combined under 1 name.
    But...that is just my opinion.


    I can see the reason to have Lefay and Morgana A as seperate bands (but also to not doing it). But splitting them, and at the same time say that Morgana Lefay and Aberrations Of The Mind are released by the same band...? It's completely different people.

    I definately think that these records are made by the same band:
    SOS ...---... and Grand Materia
    Reason: Same people (apart from bassist), same style, and part of the same "musical direction".

    I can't agree that these records are made by the same band:
    Morgana Lefay and Aberrations Of The Mind

    I'm waiting for more input but at the moment I think it should be like this:

    Morgana Lefay album 1999 => Morgana Lefay (2)
    3 Lefay albums => Lefay
    Grand Materia & Abberations => Lefay ANV Morgana Lefay

    I think the database should reflect that the the old band was split in two bands + marking the difference between the 3. In 2005, there was nothing more than a name (ANV) change.

    Just my opinions :)
  • c4d4v3r over 2 years ago

    the band considers the LEFAY albums like MORGANA LEFAY albums. First album was rereleased as LEFAY.
    So is more important that considers tha band, or us?

    The fans for the band, know the story, and no problem in seek the LEFAY albums, among the MORGANA LEFAY albums
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Of course the guidelines and consesus of Discogs users rule over artists' opinions.

    There are many cases where band members fight legal battles over names, both sides of course think that they have right to the name. So which fraction should the database go with? Look at the already mentioned Faust for example.
  • Gundozer over 2 years ago

    And the fans know this as commented above...
    -but the database should reflect and help all potential users and viewers with as correct info as possible whatever info they have or not have, so what the fans or the band think should not be that important in solving this. Maybe ask someone from a totally different point of view /taste in music?
    But the forum is open for comments so hopefully we will get more inputs.
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Gundozer
    Maybe ask someone from a totally different point of view /taste in music?
    But the forum is open for comments so hopefully we will get more inputs.


    Yes, I thought the same thing. Might be good with some fresh/outside eyes on it.
  • yourobituary over 2 years ago

    So i did....

    I came up with the following story to someone who doesn't know anything about the music:
    If there is a band and they are called Happy Cats...they make music and everything...couple of albums. Then there is a disagreement over food. One part of the band wants dry food and the other wet food. So they split up. They become Happy Cats and Angry Cats...and both continue to make the same music and bring out albums. After a while they settle for a new brand of food they both like.....Would you file those albums all again under Happy Cats with a note to the other name, or do you keep the albums of both Happy Cats and Angry Cats seperate?

    Well...the first question i got was: ?????????????? What did you drink?
    But after that i got this answer: not separate, together as CATS whatever their mood is.

    It is of course a weird story, but if i came up with the band names and everything, first of all there would be no interest in dealing with the problem and now it is really a fresh eye on it.
    yourobituary
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Haha, great story yourobituary :)

    But it would be more correct if:
    - after the split, Happy Cats changed musical style but kept the old name, Angry Cats kept the style but changed the name
    - there was never a reunion between the two. The new Happy Cays disbanded and the Angry Cats changed their name to Happy Cats.
  • yourobituary over 2 years ago

    Hahaha S8nsick66 I know but i didn't want to make the story more complicater than it was. If i tell someone who don't know the bands, the story etc. they get dizzy if you tell all at once. For me i wanted to see what someone else would do with the names. It was clear that the opinion was...leave them together. That is opposite of my opinion. I gave already the example of Entombed...but you can take a look at Mercyful Fate and King Diamond also, beside the reunion later. But even after the reunion they are kept seperated. In my opinion: they are 2 seperate bands. Regarding Morgana Lefay...in my collection i keep 1 band at the 'L' and the other in 'M' (My collection is in alphabetical order)
    Strangest thing that could happen....what if Queensryche and Geoff Tate are going to be together again? I would seperate still Queensryche / Geoff Tate / Operation: Mindcrime like seperate bands. What i want to point out is that there is a name change and therefore meant to be a new band. A new band with a new name should be treated as one i think. Afterward you can say that a release should have been under Morgana Lefay, but in the end when it was released it was a Lefay release.
    Funny how i bought the first album from Morgana Lefay - The Secret Doctrine and The Alley Of The Oaks had to compete with T'Pau, Sheena Easton and Turn Up The Bass from my brothers room =)
    But!!! In the end we are discussing if we should combine the names Morgana Lefay and Lefay and using an ANV for Lefay. In my opinion no...but when you take a look at the website of Morgana Lefay...definitly yes...as they are using the albums of both bands as discography.
    I am for combining with that in the back of my mind! But of course looking at Entombed and Mercyful Fate you get my hesitation.

    yourobituary
  • Gundozer over 2 years ago

    Im still more over to the side of keeping them (as was) two different bands one artist is Leafy the other Morgana Lefay, with some info and link on both pages.
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Ok so 3-1 on keeping Morgana Lefay and Lefay as separate bands.

    If no more opinions are raised S.O.S., Seventh Seal and the re-recorded Symphony Of The Damned (which is not btw a compilation) will be moved to the band "Lefay".

    IF we should make it more complicated I think that it's wrong to say that Morgana Lefay (the album) and Abberations are by the same band. It's two different bands with the same name => should be separate bands on Discogs.
  • S8nsick66 over 2 years ago

    Made the edits (changing all Morgana Lefay ANV Lefay to Lefay). Left a note to this thread in the submission notes.

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