• zulphur over 3 years ago

    Hi!.
    I have seen some threads about PVC Sleeves and that they can damage the vinyl?.Have you had any bad experience from storing your vinyl in PVC sleeves?. Unfortunately I have spent heaps of cash on those PVC sleeves and have almost my whole collection stored in them I would hate to have to replace them. I always replace the original inner and store it outside the actual sleeve to avoid seam splits. can the plastic in the new inner damage the vinyl?. what is your opinion about this ? cheers / Z
  • nerdfly over 3 years ago

    I think it is more an issue with picture/coloured/etched discs where you have direct vinyl to pvc contact - you'll be fine keeping any sleeved vinyl in them
  • Supernaut1970 over 3 years ago

    I have been using them for years and years and have never had a problem. Other people will say different.
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 3 years ago

    There's polyethylene which is what most outer sleeves these days are, which is fine.
    PVC though is bad. That you're more likely to see on those clear sleeves that some picture discs came in and possibly also some older library style jackets.
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    So I guess its the picture discs I should change both the sleeve and the inner?.
  • Bradx over 3 years ago

    I had my rarest records in PVC sleeves. After I read about the potential damage I went through and examined them all.
    Found about half a dozen where the vinyl had gone 'misty' looking.... and when playing... the sound was hissy and distorted.
    I took all my records out of PVC and threw the sleeves away.
  • devrobot over 3 years ago

    Never had a problem with PVC sleeves and I've had my collection in them for 20 years +
    I always remove picture discs from their covers and put them in a poly-lined inner, but again, never had any problems.
  • Earjerk over 3 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    There's polyethylene which is what most outer sleeves these days are, which is fine.
    PVC though is bad.


    +1

    If you have a lot of old classical or "World Music" albums with plastic lined inner sleeves I would suggest removing them and replacing them with another sleeve ASAP. If you're concerned about the collectability of the original inner, just store the old inner sleeve separately.

    The problem comes from "off-gassing," where there's a chemical reaction between the vinyl and the plastic lined sleeve, and it causes a cloudy film like staining on the record that will not come off. Initially it does not seem to affect the sound quality, but over time I think that it can cause damage. In my experience, the records will slowly develop a soft crackle that gets progressively worse over time.
    I spoke to one of the largest classical music dealers in the midwest last year and I asked about this and he told me that a problem is actually more with pressure, and not exclusively the sleeve that is a problem.
    So you should get rid of them riggt way to avoid this. In the meantime, if you don't have any sleeves to replace them with and you don't want your records to get damaged, make sure that your records are not packed extremely tightly on the shelves, with maybe just a little bit of space. So they're still vertical but there is still a little bit of wiggle room to slide tgem in and out. You shouldn't be having to like tug on your records to pull it out of the Shelf....
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    The verdict is I have to replace my valuable records and picture discs to polyethylene sleeves tedious work....
    not that I own that many valuable records. A store in town is selling 100 polyethylene sleeves for 30.93 € pretty expensive but hey. I think I´ve found two damaged LP´s in my collection, they look kind of misty I dont remember if they looked like that when I bought them.
  • Sombunya over 3 years ago

    zulphur
    So I guess its the picture discs I should change both the sleeve and the inner?.


    I do. Everything. Rice paper type inners and Japanese Mylar resealable outers.

    They add around $0.80 to each record (or 5% to the cost of a $15 record) and offer the highest resonable level of protecton. Not cost effective for thrift store records that are beat up and cost a dollar.
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    Does anyone know where to get resonable priced outers / inners
  • Sombunya over 3 years ago

    My pal Phil owns this small business. He has everything. I can't get anything cheaper than he sells it.
    I know he ships all over but shipping to Sweden might be a bit heavy though.

    http://www.farwestrecordsupply.com/
  • berothbr over 3 years ago

    zulphur
    Does anyone know where to get resonable priced outers / inners

    I recommend buying smaller quantities from a few different brands/stores, figuring out which one works best for you, and then ordering more than you think you'll ever need (I usually do either 500 or 1000; at the time, I always think it's way too much and then always regret not ordering more). If you are having trouble finding a reasonably priced online supply store, Amazon.com's always an option....
  • Jarren over 3 years ago

    Bradx
    I had my rarest records in PVC sleeves. After I read about the potential damage I went through and examined them all.
    Found about half a dozen where the vinyl had gone 'misty' looking.... and when playing... the sound was hissy and distorted.
    I took all my records out of PVC and threw the sleeves away.


    This is truth. Avoid all sleeves that have that "beach ball" smell to them. You know, the shiny rigid ones that look amazing on vinyl sleeves.

    They will kill your vinyl, slowly. And they will damage any vinyl in the vicinity.

    This will not happen overnight, it will not happen in a year. But it will happen.
  • berothbr over 3 years ago

    Jarren
    But it will happen.

    And deteriorate artwork, inserts, and everything else too!
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    zulphur edited over 3 years ago
    SHIT! . had my collection in those sleeves for ages... hopefully the vinyl wont have taken any damage :-(. will buy polyethylene sleeves ASAP. dont know about the inners...polyethylene inners are ok i guess. does anyone know how long the process take before the vinyl get damaged? I guess heat and humidity has some effect . Most of my vinyl have that distinct STRONG smell of those PVC sleeves. :-(even if they have been removed from them, they also feel like there is some kind of "sticky coating" on them. though I have not been that intimate with them.. I fear my whole collection might be destroyed or damaged in some way.:-(
    Read this on another forum:
    "The sleeves are "leeching" plasticizer. It's a stabilizer that seeps out and can cause other materials to degrade or warp. The loss of plasticizers also contribute to the sleeves "drying out" and becoming brittle. Heat and UV exposure speed up the process dramatically. PVC is fine for a limited time and under certain conditions but definitely not the best option. It is cheap, easily made, and can look as clear as glass. I hope this info helps. Source: Plastics Engineer"

    Painful to look at :-(
    http://imgur.com/a/TEpBw
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

  • devrobot over 3 years ago

    Is some of this environment related?

    Like I've said before, I have all of my collection in PVC sleeves and have done for 20 years +, without any problems and on some rare records too. I just don't get it.
  • berothbr over 3 years ago

    devrobot
    Is some of this environment related?

    No — PVC is reportedly less stable
  • Devon1 over 3 years ago

    Devon1 edited over 3 years ago
    To answer the OPs question, yes, PVC damages your vinyl. I never filed my albums in PVC sleeves, opting for the safer material instead, but a few I bought in PVC outer sleeves, I left them on and regret it now.
  • coopzilla over 3 years ago

    Probably why my copy of Burning is a bit noisy then...
  • hermanito over 3 years ago

    zulphur
    Does anyone know where to get resonable priced outers / inners

    As a European you might consider Protected.de: http://protected.de/en/lp-accessories
    Will at least save you on shipping costs compared to the USA :-)
  • Earjerk over 3 years ago

    devrobot
    Is some of this environment related?


    Yes. According to my classical friend, the PVC alone can harm your records, but most likely would be fine if temperature and humidity are suitable/stable and/or you avoid pressure between the plastic and vinyl, by not packing your records in tightly. So to be safe, I'd avoid them.
  • Sneerwell over 3 years ago

    Devon1
    To answer the OPs question, yes, PVC damages your vinyl.

    Earjerk
    Yes. According to my classical friend, the PVC alone can harm your records


    Isn't PVC (Polyvinyl chloride) what records are made of? What am I overlooking here?
  • Earjerk over 3 years ago

    Sneerwell
    Isn't PVC (Polyvinyl chloride) what records are made of?


    Do what you will. I speak from 25 years of vinyl collecting. The point is, there are all kinds of old sleeves- some might not harm your records, but some definitely will. Do you really want to take that chance? Especially when there are new alternatives out there.
  • Sneerwell over 3 years ago

    It was just an honest question, no need to get all defensive.
  • Devon1 over 3 years ago

    Devon1 edited over 3 years ago
    Sneerwell
    It was just an honest question, no need to get all defensive.


    As I understand it, PVC itself is hard (the record) but needs a chemical softener for sleeves (which are supposed to be kind of soft). It's not the PVC that interacts, but the softeners from the sleeves with the record.
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    [quote=Devon1][/quote]
    Exactly ""The sleeves are "leeching" plasticizer. It's a stabilizer that seeps out and can cause other materials to degrade or warp. The loss of plasticizers also contribute to the sleeves "drying out" and becoming brittle. Heat and UV exposure speed up the process dramatically. PVC is fine for a limited time and under certain conditions but definitely not the best option. It is cheap, easily made, and can look as clear as glass. I hope this info helps. Source: Plastics Engineer" "
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    PHEW!!! changed sleeves on 100 vinyls today to polyethylene sleeves and now I´ve got a headache, the PVC sleeves gave a strong smell When I removed them and the covers & vinyl felt kind of sticky like I had spilt cola all over them I keep my records in a bookshelf in normal room temperature and from what I have learnd the process of "off-gassing" can take place much faster than I ever thought. Some albums which I bought this summer already seem effected. A BIG THANKS TO YOU GUYS for all answers I might have been able to save some of my collection.

    !!!If you have any records in PVC sleeves I strongly advice you to throw them away as quickly as possible. poyethylene sleeves is the choice !!!
  • superjudge4 over 3 years ago

    superjudge4 edited over 3 years ago
    These are the ones I use. I sure hope they're okay, they say "Poly" on them, which seems obvious enough but hell I didn't know if poly is the first word in PVC.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=vinyl+styl+sleeves&client=ms-android-metropcs-us&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjpjYvb1-7PAhXBMyYKHd2SC74Q_AUICSgC&biw=320&bih=452#imgrc=HZyRZMZXrLvnFM%3A
  • devrobot over 3 years ago

    I've been checking with other friends who have their collections in PVC covers: no problems at all.

    Sometime's I'll buy an album online which has been in a PVC sleeve since the 70's or 80's and they're also fine. I don't know whether some manufacturer's are worse than others. I've used Covers33 in the UK for 30 years.
  • coldwar1977 over 3 years ago

    devrobot
    I've been checking with other friends who have their collections in PVC covers: no problems at all.

    Sometime's I'll buy an album online which has been in a PVC sleeve since the 70's or 80's and they're also fine. I don't know whether some manufacturer's are worse than others. I've used Covers33 in the UK for 30 years.


    +1
  • ChampionJames over 3 years ago

    ChampionJames edited over 3 years ago
    EDIT: Nebbamind.
  • Sombunya over 3 years ago

    I was looking through some 45's and realized I have a full set of Charly Triple Dynamite 7"ers and the discs are all slid into what I think are PVC sleeves. I looked at one and it's still shiny and clean but I'll be pulling them all out in a week or two when I can get some different inners for them.
  • mrboat over 3 years ago

    I've recently got back into vinyl and rescued a couple of hundred albums from the loft in my garage; they all had PVC covers. Haven't noticed any problems with the vinyl but they were pretty dusty and grubby so I ditched them all. I've recently ordered 50 poly covers from 'Covers 33'. While I think they have a really nice feel and look great there is one problem. When I put them on the shelf in between my other records the cover seems to stop before the record is fully pushed back; this means the record covers end up sticking out by an inch or so. It's ok if I'm really careful but I can't just put them back without thinking. They're probably just a little to slack on the record cover.
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    zulphur edited over 3 years ago
    bought extra record covers to put my valuable vinyl in... anyway I have managed to save some of my collection though I got rid of most the PVC sleeves but nae... until I remembered i have to go through my singel 7" collection...and look what i found a whole fucking 7" collectors binder in just PVC. FUCK!. Spoke to the firm where i bought my PVC sleevs from and told him about this problem and that I had found damaged vinyls in my collection. he said they hear this every year and that they sell these pvc sleeves by the thousands and have never had any complaints. they sell them as collectors deluxe sleeves... I feel like beating him up krav maga style.
  • coopzilla over 3 years ago

    zulphur
    he said they get this every year


    zulphur
    sell these sleeves by the thousands and has never had any complaints.


    Wat.
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    coopzilla
    zulphurhe said they get this every year

    zulphursell these sleeves by the thousands and has never had any complaints.

    Wat.


    Exactly "language barriers" :-P never post a message when you are upset...
  • reknuggets over 3 years ago

    zulphur
    Painful to look at :-(
    http://imgur.com/a/TEpBw


    Images like that should be on every package of PVC sleeves, like black lungs on cigarette packs.
    Had the joy of receiving another trashed record myself the other day...http://imgur.com/a/innG4
  • plucker over 3 years ago

    Can someone confirm: is PVC the type that is thick and turns cloudy? And polyethylene are the thin crinkly Japanese resealable sleeves? What are the ones that look like PVC but are thinner and Ziplock bag-like thickness? Is keeping vinyl in the original shrink wrap also harmful to the record?
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    zulphur edited over 3 years ago
    [quote=plucker][/quote]
    The PVC Sleeve looks like this :
    http://www.trepplast.se/demo/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/71000.jpg
    The polyethylene sleeves
    http://img.tradera.net/images/304/144206304_4f5cf453-7816-47e2-8736-6b8f8b53ded0.jpg

    Recommends you to read this Great page about diffrent sleeves
    http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue38/lp_sleaves.htm
  • zen-dog over 3 years ago

  • blurayven over 3 years ago

    I use these 12" rounded sleeves for my LP's
    http://www.3345rpm.com/product/esofylla-diskon-vinyliou-12inch-antistatika-vinyl-aid-japan-type/
    Then i put the LP behind the cover inside a resealable sleeve
    http://www.bcwsupplies.com/cat/33-rpm-resealable-bag.

    Does anyone find this a problem?
  • djksette2 over 3 years ago

    nerdfly
    I think it is more an issue with picture/coloured/etched discs where you have direct vinyl to pvc contact - you'll be fine keeping any sleeved vinyl in them


    Not so! I have a copy of Herb Alpert's "8 Ball" 12 inch promo,and the record is pretty much toast because of the PVC sleeve.
  • Srawk over 3 years ago

    Hey guys I am noob to the whole record scene but I pulled up my university's academic database for cleaning records and it came back with this academic journal article on media care in general.

    http://cool.conservation-us.org/byauth/st-laurent/care.html

    The guy also says to avoid PVC sleeves, but no reason as to why. Partly I would guess is because of vinyl PVC to sleeve PVC scratching, Mohs hardness scale kinda stuff. The other issue I would assume is that heat and UV radiation resultant heat could transfer some of that cruddy PVC onto your vinyls.

    No if you will excuse me I'm going to frantically search my records and remove these things...
  • ThomasP64 over 3 years ago

    Srawk
    No if you will excuse me I'm going to frantically search my records and remove these things...

    While I do not recommend PVC sleeves either, I think you can take a breath. Unless your home is unusually hot, or is bathed in UV, I don't think the records are going to degrade that rapidly. From the page you cited: "[A stabilizer] does not prevent the degradation but controls it, mainly by consuming the free HCl. Sufficient effective stabilizer remains in a plastic phonograph disc to protect it for several decades after pressing."
  • Earjerk over 3 years ago

    Srawk
    this academic journal article on media care in general.

    http://cool.conservation-us.org/byauth/st-laurent/care.html


    Excellent! Thanks for the link. Very informative, and just confirms so much that I think, just based on my years collecting. It would be great to isolate the vinyl info here, to pass on to all the new collectors I've met recently.
  • Jarren over 3 years ago

    ThomasP64
    Unless your home is unusually hot, or is bathed in UV, I don't think the records are going to degrade that rapidly.


    No, but they will eventually.
  • zen-dog over 3 years ago

    ThomasP64
    "[A stabilizer] does not prevent the degradation but controls it, mainly by consuming the free HCl. Sufficient effective stabilizer remains in a plastic phonograph disc to protect it for several decades after pressing."


    This section refers to the degradation of the record (material) itself, not in combination with PVC sleeves.

    Records are made from PVC and those sleeves are, too, but PVC is only the main component, with many others added into the mix. 'Real' PVC is rather rigid, like a record, while the sleeves contain plasticisers to soften the base material. This plasticiser degasses over time and is said to cause the degradation of the record.

    Plasticisers are also believed to negatively affect your health.
  • ThomasP64 over 3 years ago

    zen-dog
    the sleeves contain plasticisers to soften the base material.

    So do the records. And I'm not arguing you should use PVC sleeves; I am merely saying there is no need to panic and
    Srawk
    frantically search my records
  • SeRKeT over 3 years ago

    i can confirm they leave marks on vinyl, but none affect playback
    at least the ones i own, here's what happens to the colour
    the edges here are yellow due to the PVC sleeve and the rest has that yellowish tone ;(
    https://www.discogs.com/Evelyn-Thomas-High-Energy/release/741925#images/8187971
  • zulphur over 3 years ago

    Jarren
    ThomasP64Unless your home is unusually hot, or is bathed in UV, I don't think the records are going to degrade that rapidly.

    No, but they will eventually.


    Records with a yellowish/Brownish tone are called "Tea Stained" Records.
    unintentionally bought one at an auction site...
  • DrainedPatience over 3 years ago

    I purchased NIN's The Fragile back when it was released (used to collect all the Halo variants), and lacking a turntable I never played it.

    Fast forward to yesterday, with a new turntable to replace an old AT LP-60 I got last year, I thought I'd give the record it's first real play through.

    I had forgotten that along with the color booklet a PVC/vinyl cling was also stored with the third disc. Much to my horror the cling had imprinted itself through the paper sleeved onto the first side leaving a hazy square. Still plays..sounds pretty good..but there's definitely some noise and distortion between tracks and on the quieter parts.

    I was bummed as all hell yesterday afternoon, but it's not like I was ever going to sell it so it's just one of things that adds character..or so I'm telling myself.
  • schnibbitt over 2 years ago

    schnibbitt edited over 2 years ago
    Having recently discovered the Mylites brand for use with comics, does anyone have any feedback on their vinyl sleeves? Do they have flaps? Fit double LPs?
    http://www.egerber.com/category.asp?CategoryID=450&SubcategoryID=566
  • Sombunya over 2 years ago

    I've been using Mylar sleeves for my LP's, 10 and 7 inchers for years. The USA units don't fit well. Too tall. Also a bit thin. The Japanese sleeves are the best. Thicker, and fit well. The best protection one can give, I believe.

    I'm paying $0.40 USD each. Less than 3% the cost of a $15 album. Many of my albums cost much more. If you're in the US shipping shouldn't cost too much. Get them here:

    http://www.farwestrecordsupply.com/
  • Jarren over 2 years ago

    Sombunya
    I've been using Mylar sleeves for my LP's, 10 and 7 inchers for years.


    While those Japanese sleeves do provide excellent protection and look great, they kinda annoy me with that seal on the back.

    If I just want to grab an LP or 12" and play it, I have to carefully unseal the rear and then reseal it afterwards.

    The resealing is not a big deal, but you do need to start at the middle and work out both ways at the same time to avoid air bubbles.

    I simply could not be bothered with such a thing, as small as it is.

    Nice for archiving, not so nice for convenience.

    EDIT: I should say that I DJ more than sit down to listen to an entire LP, so perhaps these sleeves are suited to album listeners.
  • mrformic over 2 years ago

    Jarren
    EDIT: I should say that I DJ more than sit down to listen to an entire LP, so perhaps these sleeves are suited to album listeners.


    Same here, I HATE those sleeves :) They steal my time.
  • Sombunya over 2 years ago

    Jarren

    I simply could not be bothered with such a thing, as small as it is.


    I hear you. I also know a few people that refuse to use them. That's when it becomes a personal preference decision.

    Most of the vinyl I purchase is either new, close to new or rare and valuable. I want the best possible protection I can get.

    I have seen sleeves that are similar to Mylar without the flap. Not sure where to get them and for the price of a resealable jap sleeve I would never suggest cutting off the flap.
  • WeedMusic over 2 years ago

    Another problem with the Japanese resealable sleeves with the adhesive on the back of the sleeve, if you remove the sleeve from the plastic outer sleeve and happen it lay it on top of the plastic outer sleeve and the flap is not covering the adhesive it will stick to the sleeve and when you try to remove it from the adhesive it will tear the sleeve. I have damaged at least 2 sleeves thanks to the adhesive on the plastic outer sleeve. For that reason alone I will not use those type of plastic outer sleeves. So be careful with them.
  • Jarren over 2 years ago

    Yes, what WeedMusic said can happen. That glue is pretty strong.
  • FingoStarr over 2 years ago

    FingoStarr edited over 2 years ago
    Some of my records (all coloured vinyl directly in contact to the pvc outer sleeve they got packaged in) are damaged,too. (including the ComTruise Fairlight EP, very rare and expensive)
    And there is absolutely no way to clean it.
    And be awared: This chemical reaction can happen fast! (Some of the records are only 2 years old...)
  • vagency over 2 years ago

    vagency edited over 2 years ago
    For example:

    Early and pre- Melodiya comes with a plastic inner (50s and 60s) and that appears not to be a problem. However I have seen records manufactured in 70s and 80s were plastic inner sleeve have made chemical reaction with the surface of the record, in some records that were still new and sealed. The worst cases has been with records that had oil residues from the pressing plant - when removing that plastic inner sleeve you can actually see how the black vinyl sticks to the plastic and you have to force the removal and some of the vinyl grooves will follow with the inner sleeve - Aaagh!

    I have also seen the "matte surface spots" that could develop if the inner has been in touch with pressure to long. (As some member said in the beginning of the thread: "Don't store the records tight together at pressure" )

    It appears (for me) that the problem lies within what type of Vinyl (or how clean it was) used in the making and/or if there were residues on the vinyl surface that would start a chemical reaction.In particular have seen this with records from the Oil Crisis era in the beginning of the 70s. You will recognize this "dirty" vinyl as it easy charges with statical electricity (This, you will never experience with vinyl records from the early days ;-)

    Conclusion:
    After I have seen and experienced this - I would NEVER put any vinyl record in a new plastic inner sleeve.
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    vagency
    For example:
    Conclusion:
    After I have seen and experienced this - I would NEVER put any vinyl record in a new plastic inner sleeve.


    I agree its not worth taking the risk.
    What most people dont know it´s not just enough to remove the PVC sleeve it will damage everything
    if stored in the same room, however you dont have to throw your PVC sleeves away if you have Sleeves
    with art work. Just store them safely away from the vinyl.
  • Nick-2013 over 2 years ago

    reknuggets
    zulphurPainful to look at :-(
    http://imgur.com/a/TEpBw

    Images like that should be on every package of PVC sleeves, like black lungs on cigarette packs.
    Had the joy of receiving another trashed record myself the other day...http://imgur.com/a/innG4


    Yes, I've experienced that, after storing vinyl in those thick type plastic sleeves for 30 years.
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    [quote=john-b2013][/quote]

    :-( I dont know why they still make those PVC sleeves they should be banned since they also are a health hazard.

    https://www.discogs.com/login?return_to=%2Fmy
  • InDustWeTrust over 2 years ago

    vagency
    I would NEVER put any vinyl record in a new plastic inner sleeve.

    It's not "plastic" that's the problem, though; it's polyvinyl chloride (PVC). Offgassing from PVC sleeves - which tend to be thick, stiff & crystal-clear - can ruin vinyl records. Basically, if a plastic sleeve smells like pool furniture, you don't want it anywhere near your collection.

    Most plastic inner sleeves, however, are and long have been made of polythene (PE or "poly"). High-quality PE sleeves are excellent for vinyl storage - better, certainly, than paper.
  • Earjerk over 2 years ago

    Earjerk edited over 2 years ago
    InDustWeTrust
    Most


    Yes. But which ones? Better to just avoid altogether if you ask me.
    And, speaking as someone who just went through about 300-400 vintage classical LPs and finding about every 7th or 8th one suffering from irreversible damage from at least the vintage plasti-lined sleeves, no speculation here, you should ditch all of the old ones, just as a safety precaution. I've been told that the plastic alone isn't the problem, but pressure from being tightly packed, and temperature can play a part in encouraging the plastic to break down, so something to think about there, as well.

    Edit: Apologies. I just noticed that already beat that dead horse in my post above.

    Also,
    InDustWeTrust
    polyvinyl chloride (PVC)
    is a kind of plastic.
  • InDustWeTrust over 2 years ago

    Earjerk
    polyvinyl chloride (PVC)...is a kind of plastic.


    Yeah, that was my point.

    Maybe this differs in different parts of the world? Cuz the poly & poly-lined inner sleeves that have long been used for LPs (especially classical LPs) in the US, UK, France, Germany & Japan are great. I've honestly never seen them damage vinyl.
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    Not many know this either...
    If PVC sleeves can damage your vinyl by offgassing can it effect your health?
    The short answer is yes!.
    How can PVC affect my health? Exposure to PVC often includes exposure to phthalates,
    which are used to soften PVC and may have adverse health effects. Because of PVC’s heavy chlorine content, dioxins are released during the manufacturing, burning, or landfilling of PVC. Exposure to dioxins can cause reproductive, developmental, and other health problems, and at least one dioxin is classified as a carcinogen.
    PVC is made from vinyl chloride, which is listed as a human carcinogen in the Fourteenth Report on Carcinogens published by the National Toxicology Program. Dioxins, phthalates, and BPA are suspected to be endocrine disruptors, which are chemicals that may interfere with the production or activity of hormones in the human endocrine system. TCDD dioxin is listed as a human carcinogen, and di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate is listed as "reasonably anticipated to be a human carcinogen" in the Fourteenth Report on Carcinogens published by the National Toxicology Program.
    Exposure to PVC dust may cause asthma and affect the lungs.
    Verdict: PVC IS BAD!
  • Jarren over 2 years ago

    zulphur
    Verdict: PVC IS BAD!


    Good god! My days of sniffing beach balls are over!
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64 edited over 2 years ago
    zulphur
    The hysterical answer is yes!.

    Fixed.

    About 0.02% of new vinyl goes to records. You would do much better to worry about PVC pipes; about half of all vinyl goes into pipes, window frames, and floors. As for phthalates, the main health concern with phthalates is leaching into food or water. They don't vaporize, because their vapor pressure is essentially zero at room temperature. Unless you're planning to eat your records, I wouldn't worry. If you're specifically worried about PVC record sleeves, I recommend not using them as food storage bags.

    Unless you plan to burn your records, they aren't going to release significant (or probably even detectable) amounts of dioxins and/or monomeric vinyl chloride.

    Yes, it is possible that some dioxin is released when pressing records. However, the amount of PVC used for records is 0.02% of total PVC production. Any environmental impact is minuscule compared to the impact of PVC in building materials.
    zulphur
    Exposure to PVC dust may cause asthma and affect the lungs.

    OK. You've got me there. Sanding my records has destroyed my health, although it does leave them with a lovely satin finish.

    And by the way, CD jewel cases are made from petroleum. They have a significant environmental impact. And styrene is a carcinogen.
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    [quote=ThomasP64]zulphurThe hysterical answer is yes!.
    Fixed.

    Its dangerous to live you can die. the amount of things that are bad for us are many....
    hence live and rock n´roll !.
  • 0bleak over 2 years ago

    Is vinyl bad for my PVC sleeves?
  • InDustWeTrust over 2 years ago

    quorthon told me if you pee on a regular copy of bathory you can sell it as a yellow goat
  • ACCEPT21 over 2 years ago

    Excuse me, but i would like to make some extra questions about pvc outer sleeves. First of all how it is possible for recorded to be affected from an outer sleeve? Especially if record has an extra protection from a paper or any other type of inner sleeve. And how much it takes for a record to get misty or damaged? Sorry if i am repeating questins, but i cannot imagine how big companies put their picture disks in theese pvc outer sleeves! It is supossed that pvc outer sleeves are the best and most expensive. Thanks a lot, greetings from Athens, Greece.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    ACCEPT21
    First of all how it is possible for recorded to be affected from an outer sleeve?

    In principle, If a record is exposed to sufficient heat or sufficient UV, an elimination reaction can take place at a PVC outer sleeve with release of HCl (hydrochloric acid). HCl is a gas, and does not require direct contact to reach a record. The process is autocatalytic, so HCl elimination from an outer sleeve can initiate HCl elimination from a PVC record.
    ACCEPT21
    Especially if record has an extra protection from a paper or any other type of inner sleeve.
    Paper is porous, and allows passage of gases. Polyethylene inner sleeves are significantly less porous, although HCl can enter through the opening of the inner sleeve.
    ACCEPT21
    And how much it takes for a record to get misty or damaged?
    Depends on how much exposure to heat or light your records get.

    PVC inner sleeves, or records sold in plastic sleeves are more of an issue. As noted above, plasticizer can migrate to the surface of the sleeve, and directly contact the record.
  • ACCEPT21 over 2 years ago

    So, which is the best way to protect vinyls? And which is thebest way to store record and sleeve? For examlpe, a friend of mine stores record out of sleeve, to avoid ring agewear! What about the outer sleeves that closes with stick line? Do theese outer sleeves protect well, or vinyl must breath?
  • uwel over 2 years ago

    uwel edited over 2 years ago
    Investigated my complete collection (7" and 12"). All stored in PVC outer sleeves for 30-40 years. As the singles are mostly stored without inner sleeves 10% have that softener dust issues. Some very bad with background noise, some with not audible problems. The LPs have fewer problems because of the thicker Cover and complete inner sleeve usage. But there must be some innersleeve productions with softener too. Here I can find discoloration in form of grids/nets. Almost not audible. And it seems to be also an interaction with differend vinyl types. I also noticed pressure differences on the sides - no LP stands realy vertical. I change all inner and outer sleeves to PP / LDPE Folie and washed my complete collection with an OkkiNokki. After that most of the vinyls sound fine, but there is no way to remove the softener dust.
    I loved the handling of that fat PVC sleeves very much, but if you want to use these you have to change them every 5-10 years before the softener comes out. I found a german shop where I bought complete inner and outer sleeves for 2500 vinyls for round about 450€. I called them and the man on the telephone told me that all PP/LDPE is completly free of softener and is designed for foodstuff also.
    And also think about your record boxes most of these products are also PVC! I actually change everything to natural wood boxes.
  • onlyacanvasky over 2 years ago

    FWIW the other day i got out my copy of Metallica - Until It Sleeps which I bought new 20 years ago for the first time in a long time. The side in contact with the PVC outer had gone all cloudy but the side in contact with the paper was fine. Make what you will of it.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    uwel
    And also think about your record boxes most of these products are also PVC! I actually change everything to natural wood boxes.

    Again, we are getting a little hysterical here. HCl offgassing from a milk crate or other record box is unlikely to reach a record through a decent polyethyllene or polypropylene sleeve and damage your records. The vapor pressure of PVC plasticizers is basically zero; they are viscous oils. So there is zero chance of transfer from a record crate to a record in any sort of sleeve.

    Next you're going to recommend protecting our records by redoing our plumbing to replace PVC pipes.
  • Scott_Satellite over 2 years ago

    When buying look for acid-free. I just bought a brand called BVC on Amazon that is acid-free and non-PVC. They are ultra clear and a nice 3 mil weight that feels substantial but doesn't make too much extra bulk. No smell at all.
  • zevulon over 2 years ago

    zevulon edited over 2 years ago
    Scott_Satellite
    When buying look for acid-free. I just bought a brand called BVC on Amazon that is acid-free and non-PVC. They are ultra clear and a nice 3 mil weight that feels substantial but doesn't make too much extra bulk. No smell at all.


    Which amazon? What's the exact name/brand? :)

    I so need more plastic - even more now that I've gotten scared by the PVC hysteria - I always found them excellent for the UK thin 12"s/inner sleeve only releases. Can't say that they have destroyed any records of mine that I know of, but I've changed all picture discs to non-PVC some years back.
  • jerrysnook over 2 years ago

    So I have to picture discs from The Residents that are in a thick plastic covering, and am pretty worried about it. I guess I should probably get rid of the plastic outer? The only concern from a minor collectibility stance is that one has an official Residents OP11 sticker on it, so it seems like maybe I should keep that for preservation? What do you think?

    Here are the discs.
  • zevulon over 2 years ago

    jerrysnook
    What do you think?


    100% Yes - keep it, just separate it from the actual picture disc. I keep all these in a separate corner with written slips about where the plastic cover belongs to..
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    zevulon
    jerrysnookWhat do you think?

    100% Yes - keep it, just separate it from the actual picture disc. I keep all these in a separate corner with written slips about where the plastic cover belongs to..


    This is my approach too.
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 2 years ago

    So, my question is, if it's a known thing that PVC sleeves kill records, why are labels still using them?
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    So, my question is, if it's a known thing that PVC sleeves kill records, why are labels still using them?


    They are clearer than common PE sleeves and the embossed edge makes them look more sturdy. Maybe they are cheaper?
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    So, my question is, if it's a known thing that PVC sleeves kill records, why are labels still using them?


    They are clearer than common PE sleeves and the embossed edge makes them look sturdier. Maybe they are cheaper?
  • zevulon over 2 years ago

    no_noise_reduction
    Maybe they are cheaper?


    No, they are definitely not cheap.
  • zevulon over 2 years ago

    ((triple post - sorry!! ]]
  • zevulon over 2 years ago

    ((triple post - sorry!! ]]
  • Jarren over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    So, my question is, if it's a known thing that PVC sleeves kill records, why are labels still using them?


    Because they make picture discs look so pretty, and that's usually all that concerns people who buy picture discs.
  • Earjerk over 2 years ago

    It's such a shame too... I'd really like to get all those Taj Mahal Travellers' boots on B 13, but... I'm afraid by the time the price comes down enough for me to justify buying them, they'll be all off-gassy...
  • Mintydog over 2 years ago

    My copy of Panoram 'Accents' Ep is ruined after 5 years stored in the Pvc cover it came in. But I'm confused by the reports on this thread - is vinyl damaged when it's inside a paper sleeve inside original album cover then inside a pvc sleeve? Or does the damage only happen when the vinyl is directly stored inside pvc sleeve? Hope this makes sense.
  • Bradx over 2 years ago

    Mintydog
    My copy of Panoram 'Accents' Ep is ruined after 5 years stored in the Pvc cover it came in. But I'm confused by the reports on this thread - is vinyl damaged when it's inside a paper sleeve inside original album cover then inside a pvc sleeve? Or does the damage only happen when the vinyl is directly stored inside pvc sleeve? Hope this makes sense.

    In my experience the damage can go right through paper inners and cardboard outer sleeves.
  • Mintydog over 2 years ago

    Thanks. So the summary to this thread is protect vinyl (direct or in artwork) inside polyethylene not PVC??
  • Mintydog over 2 years ago

    Thanks. So the summary to this thread is protect vinyl (direct or in artwork) inside polyethylene not PVC??
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    [quote=Mintydog][/quote]

    Exactly :-)
  • Bradx over 2 years ago

    Mintydog
    Thanks. So the summary to this thread is protect vinyl (direct or in artwork) inside polyethylene not PVC??

    Yes - polyethylene or polythene are fine / chemically stable.
  • zulphur over 2 years ago

    chemically stable.
    LIke me then :-)

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