• OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    recently i receieve plenty of notifications where the format "MINIMAX" is added...

    first one who explained it to me was velove on a Yello CD Single
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    it makes sense and i didn't reviewed further similar edits after a notification

    but today it becomes a issue and i wonder what is going on and what is and what is not a "MINIMAX"...

    pinging users who are involved in a voting/edit ping pong instead of do the forum way:
    zevulon & prometheusrussell
    @ https://www.discogs.com/release/669959-Kiss/history#latest

    funny or interesting, here they have no problem with the tag but the disc is same kind...:
    https://www.discogs.com/release/5287930-Glitterball/history#latest

    i ping a totally random selection of users, who choose the Minimax tag - found via this search (*):
    https://www.discogs.com/search/?sort=date_changed%2Cdesc&format=minimax&track=&barcode=&genre=&anv=&catno=&year=&contributor=&advanced=1&style=&matrix=&title=&country=&artist=&label=&credit=&submitter=&type=all&page=2

    tibor123go CD3003 Gorgyporgy Dylanelke Through The Eyes Of Vengeance (minimax & album?) _TheBeatles Plug In Baby

    Jingle Bells
    :-)
  • julass over 5 years ago

    the Yello one is a minimax, the other two aren't... they just look similar
    you can see on the Yello that black "border" between playing area and the rest

    there was a thread about that some time ago:
    https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/389188
    it looks like early PDO pressings were made like that
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    Please also see similar discussion at
    https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/374279

    In summa:

    Minimax is a *design / physical format* term.
    It has nothing to do with whether the single is a maxi single or single or neither.
    [eg On this database 3" CDs are described as Mini CDs in format - it is possible for a 3" mini CD also to be tagged as a maxi CD if the maxi single tag is also found. A mini CD maxi-single is not the same as a minimax CD.]

    A Minimax CD is always 5".
    The appearance is basically the effect as if a 3" mini CD has been extended to 5" by having a clear plastic ring around the disc. The ring can be clear, it can be coloured, it can have artwork. But the silvered area and the play area only operates in the 3" central area. The effect is always to have the appearance of a 3" CD fixed inside a larger 5" design.

    Here is very clear info on what they are from a company that ACTUALLY MAKES them
    http://www.crystalclearcds.com/otherdiscs/minimax.php

    I have never seen anything described as a minimax which is fully silvered over the whole 5" area and does not have that essential translucent ring section of plastic.
    Some usages on the database eg
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452#
    are calling themselves Minimaxes.
    I believe that is totally *wrong*.
    Many early PDO Germany pressings have this style of disc surface with the outer area being a frosted silver and not the same shiny silver of the play area.
    But it has no clear translucent plastic area so it NOT a minimax as the actual designers of the minimax understand this.

    The Prince CD that caused the fuss earlier today is a completely standard fully silvered 5" CD.
    People are misunderstanding typical photography shadow...
  • julass over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    The appearance is basically the effect as if a 3" mini CD has been extended to 5" by having a clear plastic ring around the disc. The ring can be clear, it can be coloured, it can have artwork. But the silvered area and the play area only operates in the 3" central area. The effect is always to have the appearance of a 3" CD fixed inside a larger 5" design.

    this is actually the perfect description of this image:
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    the fact that the outer non-silvered area is gray and not transparent or any other color doesn't matter at all
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    The reason this release
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452#
    is not a Minimax is clear when you look at the *disc label* side.
    The release is not separated into a central 3" area with an added outer area - the disc label - layout/text design/graphics - uses the entire 5" area as one whole.
    The confusion is simply because those early PDO Germany CDs have that frosted silver effect on the underside/play side in the outer area.
    But it is not a minimax.
    By its nature, no minimax can have a label side that doesn't clearly distinguish between the mini and maxi components.

    [Now, if the *label side* had the same frosted effect as the underside with an outer hub around the 3" central area - yes that could potentially described as a minimax as it has both separate mini and maxi sections even if fully silvered.
    But that isn't what is happening here...]
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    This CD
    https://www.discogs.com/release/5287930-Glitterball/history#latest
    is also clearly not a minimax CD.
    Again look at the disc label side.
    This is not a separate 3" central area enclosed in a 5" - it is all 5".
    Just because the underside of the discs have a different sheen in the play and outer area... Again the distinction between the sections is most pronounced by shadow when a flat image is taken. Hold that disc at 45% in the light and the distinction between the two silver surfaces is pretty minimal...
    Thousands of CDs on the database are like this. They are not minimaxes.

    I hadn't realised zevulon had been going round adding the tag incorrectly on lots of other records too.
    zevulon Can you please list the records where minimax has been added so they can all be reviewed and checked. Thank you.
  • julass over 5 years ago

    sorry but what label side got to do with playing area?
    prometheusrussell
    By its nature, no minimax can have a label side that doesn't clearly distinguish between the mini and maxi components.

    and this is definition taken from where?
  • velove over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    zevulon Can you please list the records where minimax has been added so they can all be reviewed and checked. Thank you.

    just search for zevulon and minimax and you'll find them all.

    but first let's find out if they are minimax or not.

    prometheusrussell
    Here is very clear info on what they are from a company that ACTUALLY MAKES them
    http://www.crystalclearcds.com/otherdiscs/minimax.php

    is there a better definition that goes into more detail?
    Is the definition on discogs the same as the definition outside of discogs?

    I went through 20 odd yello singles and 4 or 5 have the distinct black ring between inner and outer part. others look similar but they are more like the Glitterball. I at first added minimax to them as well and then removed some again. need to double check.

    What made me thinking is when I realised that the two parts are in different places, whereas they would have to be at exactly 3". An easy thing would be to measure. if it's not a 3 inch it can't be a minimax by definition.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    velove
    just search for zevulon and minimax and you'll find them all.


    Nice of you to slander me and lie better than Trump.

    prometheusrussell
    A Minimax CD is always 5".
    The appearance is basically the effect as if a 3" mini CD has been extended to 5" by having a clear plastic ring around the disc. The ring can be clear, it can be coloured, it can have artwork. But the silvered area and the play area only operates in the 3" central area. The effect is always to have the appearance of a 3" CD fixed inside a larger 5" design.


    Just as in the case where you adamantly claim the opposite, where it obviously is a 3" pressed with an outer ring. Plastic, metal, they are all minimax.
    It's a bit sad that you don't read the Guidelines nor check the actual discs in question.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    velove
    Is the definition on discogs the same as the definition outside of discogs?


    Yes it is.
    Here is the verbatim text from the Discogs formats page
    Minimax - "A Miniature CD single with a (usually transparent) built-in 12cm adaptor, which makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise. Plays on all CD players, like a normal CD. Also called Fan Disc, AB-CD, and Semi-Substrate disc."

    julass
    sorry but what label side got to do with playing area?

    read the description
    "makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise" ...

    julass velove zevulon
    Please look at the disc of
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    and
    https://www.discogs.com/release/5287930-Glitterball/history#latest
    Can you see anything there that equates to a "CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record"...?
    No.
    Can you see anything on the disc label side that indicates a distinct separation between the 3" and 5" sections?
    No.
    Clearly you cannot have a CD which is minimax one side and standard CD the other... in the same way you cannot have a vinyl which is clear vinyl or picture disc on one side and then standard black vinyl on the other.

    As said above, all minimaxes have a translucent plastic section.
    The ring can be completely clear, it can be coloured or tinted, it can have have lettering, images, artwork. etc. But it is always a translucent [to some degree] plastic edging.

    The physical manufacturing process is to weld a 3" metallic disc into a plastic mould. It is a 2 stage physical process.
    The 3" CD section is manufactured separately and then passed to a plant that adds the plastic extension.
    That is what the company I linked above does.

    These discs
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    and
    https://www.discogs.com/release/5287930-Glitterball/history#latest
    were not made in a 2 stage process, adding a fixed plastic adaptor area mould to a 3" disc to make it into a 5" disc.
    They came off a disc manufacturing machine as 5"s.

    I cannot see why some users are determined to make this more complicated than it is.
    cf the people who coined the term minimax/the companies that make minimaxes, the physical and practical process of manufacture and Discogs own description of the term which clearly shows that the Yello and Simple Minds discs do not meet the criteria.
  • hafler3o over 5 years ago

    Here's one I made for you earlier ;)
    Kisses With Both Hands From Gods Little Toy
    I would be very wary of calling anything a Minimax if there is any 'silver' layering in the outer part of the CD radius. Silkscreen is fine.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    hafler3o
    Here's one I made for you earlier ;)

    And very fine it looks too, sir!

    zevulon is again shouting away on the Prince Kiss page that this is a minimax because the play area is 3"... The fact that the play surface is no more than 3" is just one component of what makes a minimax - if none of the other aspects apply, then it's still not a minimax.
    That way 'Dogs have 4 legs, my cat has 4 legs, thus my cat is a dog' madness lies.
    We can start measuring the play areas of every CD on the database and where they are 3" we can automatically add the minimax tag. Err no...
    .
    What do you think this means from discogs's own description zevulon "built-in 12cm adaptor..." ?
    Minimaxes came into being when someone had the bright idea of not keep adding the plastic adaptor ring to a 3" CD, but make it part of the physical design and then allow its artistic potential [as hafler3o's elegant monochome example].
    The Prince, Yello and Simple Minds CDs have nothing to do with that tradition or have anything that can be described as an in-built adaptor.
    Or are all 5" CDs now to be termed minimaxes... after all they could all be mini CDs made into maxi size CDs because of the addition of extra metal...
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    You also note that the Discogs definition refers to these as sometimes called (technically) semi-substrate discs.
    eg cf
    http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/substrate
    Here it refers to the addition of a plastic strata to a metallic strata.
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    The appearance is basically the effect as if a 3" mini CD has been extended to 5" by having a clear plastic ring around the disc.

    (on the images it looks white, but it's clear/transparent) Man'O'War = Minimax?
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    Man'O'War = Minimax?

    Yes indeed - standard minimax - clear plastic ring - there it is on white background so looks white = the built-in "adaptor".
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8 edited over 5 years ago
    I really can't believe that there are people honestly believing that all these given examples are minimax CD's.
    Really, they are NOT!

    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    is NOT a minimax
    https://www.discogs.com/Prince-Kiss/release/669959
    is NOT a minimax (it's the most standard way CD-singles look like, at least in Europe, 99,9% of all CD-singles look like this)
    https://www.discogs.com/Simple-Minds-Glitterball/release/5287930
    is NOT a minimax (again, it's the most standard way CD-singles look like, at least in Europe, 99,9% of all CD-singles look like this)
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Jingle-Bells/release/166459
    is NOT a minimax (you can't even see the playing side of the CD on the images, how on earth could someone know it should be a minimax anyway???)

    These are all just standard 5" CD. Only thing is that the outer part of the playing side has not been technically prepared to be able to press any audio on.
    Because of this the outer part of the playing side looks like a 'clear mirror' in most cases, or flat grey in the case of some earlier CD-single pressings (like in the Yello Call It Love example).
    But really, they are in NO WAY minimax CD's.
    The actual playing area is still the complete 5" (the outer part simply hasn't been technically prepared, that's all)
    Wouldn't even come to my mind to call them that.

    Now
    https://www.discogs.com/Muse-Plug-In-Baby/release/613083
    is probably a genuine minimax, can't see it all clear because of the nature of the image.
    https://www.discogs.com/Hafler-Trio-Kisses-With-Both-Hands-From-Gods-Little-Toy/release/284666
    is 100% a genuine minimax
    https://www.discogs.com/The-Artist-Formerly-Known-As-Prince-ManOWar/release/3149207
    is also 100% a genuine minimax
    I have some more examples from my own collection:
    https://www.discogs.com/Suske-En-Wiske-De-Leukste-Liedjes/release/3423271
    https://www.discogs.com/Kim-Lian-Teenage-Superstar/release/1187413
    https://www.discogs.com/Annika-The-Reddest-Rose/release/6628282
    https://www.discogs.com/Ron-Brandsteder-En-Zn-Maatjes-Liedjes-Die-Iedereen-Kent/release/3438391
    These are all genuine minimax CD's.

    I agree that sometimes there are borderline cases, like in my own collection for example:
    https://www.discogs.com/The-Cross-Shove-It/release/3393373
    https://www.discogs.com/Prince-And-The-New-Power-Generation-Money-Dont-Matter-2-Night/release/849295
    But still, these are technically still normal 5" CD's with the outer part of the the playing surface not being technically prepared to be able to press any audio on. On top of that they decided to 'do' something special with that outer part (print a text or print a hologram in these examples) .... but still technically they are 'normal' 5"CD's, not minimaxes.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    i ping a totally random selection of users, who choose the Minimax tag - found via this search (*):
    https://www.discogs.com/search/?sort=date_changed%2Cdesc&format=minimax&track=&barcode=&genre=&anv=&catno=&year=&contributor=&advanced=1&style=&matrix=&title=&country=&artist=&label=&credit=&submitter=&type=all&page=2


    From that list of minimaxes with the latest edits...

    https://www.discogs.com/CoH-Vox-Tinnitus/release/16929
    Minimax - clear plastic ring as image

    https://www.discogs.com/Muse-Plug-In-Baby/release/613083
    Minimax - clear plastic ring as image

    https://www.discogs.com/Santamaria-Fal%C3%A9sia-Do-Amor/release/6428624
    Minimax - colour design here makes the label side a blue square centred over the silvered disc with clear surround
    these are the CD design equivalents of "uncut shaped picture discs"

    https://www.discogs.com/Gun-The-Frantic-Box/release/9217035
    can't see any disc images...

    https://www.discogs.com/Cult-Of-Fire-Life-Sex-Death/release/9214811
    can't see any disc image...

    https://www.discogs.com/Tomia-Venice/release/9213933
    can't see any disc image...
    based on the pick n mix attitude to format tags "CD, Minimax, Mini-Album, EP, Stereo " ?!
    I'd hazard the term is probably misunderstood and not a minimax

    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Featuring-Stina-Nordenstam-To-The-Sea/release/151109
    not a minimax - standard 5" fully silvered CD - no plastic edging, no distinctly separated inner 3" and outer 5" areas over whole disc - play area may be condensed into a 3" area and underside may have a shiny silver play area and matte silver outer, but that doesn't make a minimax

    https://www.discogs.com/Jam-Spoons-Hands-On-Yello-You-Gotta-Say-Yes-To-Another-Excess-Great-Mission/release/74128
    same - not a minimax - standard 5" fully silvered CD - no plastic edging, no distinctly separated inner 3" and outer 5" areas over whole disc - play area may be condensed into a 3" area and underside may have a shiny silver play area and matte silver outer, but that doesn't make a minimax
    [ I ping TheRavingPsycHo - he has commented there pointing out this is not a minimax too]

    https://www.discogs.com/Yannick-Dauby-Alisen/release/447740
    can't see any disc image...

    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Blazing-Saddles/release/208427
    same - not a minimax - standard 5" fully silvered CD - no plastic edging, no distinctly separated inner 3" and outer 5" areas over whole disc - play area may be condensed into a 3" area and underside may have a shiny silver play area and matte silver outer, but that doesn't make a minimax
    [ I ping bausl and Xaman - who question the minimax idea there too]

    https://www.discogs.com/Westbams-Hands-On-Yello-Bostich/release/149814
    same - not a minimax - standard 5" fully silvered CD - no plastic edging, no distinctly separated inner 3" and outer 5" areas over whole disc - play area may be condensed into a 3" area and underside may have a shiny silver play area and matte silver outer, but that doesn't make a minimax
    [I ping cccatch28 and TheRavingPsycHo again - who both question the minimax idea there too]

    https://www.discogs.com/The-Souveneers-Dance-American/release/9151885
    can't see any disc image...
    but highly unlikely - again unconvincing use of format tags suggest possible error - CDr, Minimax, Album, Stereo
    I've never yet seen a CDr with plastic surround edge

    https://www.discogs.com/David-Sylvian-Playing-The-Schoolhouse/release/8655676
    Minimax - clear plastic ring as image

    https://www.discogs.com/The-Halo-Jump-Tools-To-Save-Your-Life/release/9124651
    Minimax - clear plastic ring as image

    https://www.discogs.com/CLOCK-DVA-Neoteric/release/8497975
    Minimax - translucent white plastic ring with some text as per image

    https://www.discogs.com/Gorillaz-Tomorrow-Comes-Today/release/66973
    Minimax - plastic outer ring with some text as per image

    https://www.discogs.com/Ghost-He-Is/release/8696260
    err NO.
    That's a CDr not "150 × CD, Minimax, CD-ROM, Single, Promo" and as we see it isn't a minimax design no matter whteher CDr or CD...
    somebody has just hit all the keys at once there

    https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Blood-On-The-Dance-Floor/release/476527
    Minimax - nice example of a colour tinted one and one where an image is covering both central area and extends into plastic area - but there is the expected translucent plastic edge around the central 3" silvered area

    https://www.discogs.com/Scooter-Fire/release/391560
    Minimax - very similar design

    https://www.discogs.com/The-Electric-Soft-Parade-Same-Way-Every-Day-Biting-The-Soles-Of-My-Feet/release/1096888
    Minimax - clear plastic surround

    https://www.discogs.com/No-Artist-The-New-Minimax-CD/release/9082029
    helpfully flagged by its name (!)
    Minimax - design has orange translucent plastic surround and face image appears over silvered 3" area and extends onto translucent area

    Apart from the ones that we can't see - and a few submissions where users are clearly users about which tags they are using - all the actual Minimaxes have - as per Discogs own description - that "built-in adaptor" outer section of translucent plastic which indeed "makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise".

    The edits by velove and zevulon to all these Yello CDs and same others - simply based on the fact there is on the underside a demarcated play area of c 3" (which may indeed not all be 3" as velove admits] and a more matte outer area - are all incorrect. None of these have a translucent plastic edging as the "built-in adaptor".
    These edits have had questions and complaints raised from quite a number of users actually...
  • velove over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    velove
    just search for zevulon and minimax and you'll find them all.
    Nice of you to slander me and lie better than Trump.


    Seems to be a misunderstanding. What I tried to say was that it's not important for you to list all of them because anyone can just search for minimax and zevulon as in https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=zevulon+minimax&type=all and they'll find all releases that have minimax in format and where you have been a submitter or contributor. Now that doesn't mean that you added minimax to all of them

    The question by prometheus was
    prometheusrussell
    zevulon Can you please list the records where minimax has been added so they can all be reviewed and checked. Thank you.

    zevulon
    Nice of you to slander me and lie better than Trump.

    no idea how the search above is slandering you or lying.

    JeroenG8
    I really can't believe that there are people honestly believing that all these given examples are minimax CD's.

    it's not like it's a popular format. I have never heard of them until a couple of weeks ago.
    and
    JeroenG8
    I agree that sometimes there are borderline cases, like in my own collection for example:
    https://www.discogs.com/The-Cross-Shove-It/release/3393373
    https://www.discogs.com/Prince-And-The-New-Power-Generation-Money-Dont-Matter-2-Night/release/849295


    What about Michael Jackson - Ghosts (Deluxe Collector Box Set) it's called minimax on the artwork but from the top doesn't look transparent at all. Would be good if someone could take a photo/scan from the back.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    I really can't believe that there are people honestly believing that all these given examples are minimax


    As I just added my message, yours appeared at the same time JeroenG8

    Thank you for your helpful input and some interesting linked examples.

    I can only repeat my analogy above about the 'Dogs have 4 legs, my cat has 4 legs, thus my cat is a dog'
    Some have fixated on the fact there is a noticeable 3" play area on any old disc and believed this can be used as some transferable descriptor for minimax.
    But the whole point about the minimax it is a visual design concept embedding the 3" silvered disc in a plastic surround. If you don't have that, it's not a minimax.

    This is an interesting example
    https://www.discogs.com/Prince-And-The-New-Power-Generation-Money-Dont-Matter-2-Night/release/849295
    JeroenG8
    these are technically still normal 5" CD's with the outer part of the the playing surface not being technically prepared to be able to press any audio on. On top of that they decided to 'do' something special with that outer part (print a text or print a hologram in these examples) .... but still technically they are 'normal' 5"CD's, not minimaxes.
    = exactly right.
    I was going to give the example of hologram 5" CDs
    That Prince one actually looks like a 5" standard trying to mimic a minimax (!)
    But as I said above
    prometheusrussell
    The physical manufacturing process is to weld a 3" metallic disc into a plastic mould. It is a 2 stage physical process.
    The 3" CD section is manufactured separately and then passed to a plant that adds the plastic extension.
    That is what the company I linked above does.

    That doesn't apply to the Prince disc.
  • velove over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    velove
    Is the definition on discogs the same as the definition outside of discogs?

    Yes it is.
    Here is the verbatim text from the Discogs formats page
    Minimax - "A Miniature CD single with a (usually transparent) built-in 12cm adaptor, which makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise. Plays on all CD players, like a normal CD. Also called Fan Disc, AB-CD, and Semi-Substrate disc."

    and where is the definition from outside discogs? Is there any?
    googling doesn't find anything.

    prometheusrussell
    The edits by velove and zevulon to all these Yello CDs and same others - simply based on the fact there is on the underside a demarcated play area of c 3" (which may indeed not all be 3" as velove admits] and a more matte outer area - are all incorrect. None of these have a translucent plastic edging as the "built-in adaptor".
    These edits have had questions and complaints raised from quite a number of users actually...

    I have no problem reverting my edits if that's what is decided.
    Would be good though to update the format description to be clearer. e.g. minimax cannot have gray thing whatever. if that's the definition. But would be good to see such a definition on an external source.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    velove
    What about Michael Jackson - Limited Edition Minimax CD it's called minimax on the artwork but from the top doesn't look transparent at all. Would be good if someone could take a photo/scan from the back.

    Yes it would - but if you saw the underside, I expect you would see the "built-in adaptor" surround was orange translucent plastic around the 3" metallic centre (here gold) but not exactly very translucent because an image has been used to cover the entire area on one side. On another MJ minimax I quote above, the figure of Michael appears over one section of the clear surround. Obviously if the artwork covers all the plastic, it is not clear. I have seen this before.
    This is the CD equivalent of taking a translucent orange 12" and painting one side of it with white paint.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    velove
    and where is the definition from outside discogs? Is there any?
    googling doesn't find anything.


    Well, google finds all sorts of things... but it does depend on exactly what you ask - and what source of info you find acceptable...
    There isn't for example a nice helpful wiki page on Minimax CDs - indeed the format isn't mentioned there
    cf
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_disc#Disc_shapes_and_diameters

    If you look up links to minimax you can find sites like I linked above where they manufacture them - you can see images and descriptions away from discogs and not using discogs data which show minimaxes. They are all with plastic surround hubs to a central silvered area in some shape or form.

    [Mind you, I just keyed in "shiny and matte disc surface" into google as part of searching descriptors - and amongst the results it says :
    People also ask
    What is a matte lipstick?
    How much is Kylie lipstick?
    How much are Kylie lip kits?
    .... We're doomed...]

    Meanwhile - just found images here
    https://www.amazon.com/Limited-Minimax-CD-Gold-Disc/dp/B000LI9TNK
    I thought the seeming orange edging on the disocgs image of this was because of coloured plastic behind - but if the disc is really the same as that Amazon image - no - it's just a gold 5" CD with a picture disc effect on the label side. That's not actually a minimax at all. Play area is very clearly not confined to a separate 3" section.
    So here the tag would/should/could [?] only be applied to the Michael Jackson - Limited Edition Minimax CD because it self-describes as that - but it is not actually a minimax...
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    For what it is worth
    http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Music-Vinyl-CD-and-Audio-Terms-You-Might-Find-on-eBay-/10000000000870851/g.html
    "Minimax CD A 5" CD with a 3" playing area in the centre and clear plastic surround."
    same data
    http://www.alibris.co.uk/glossary/glossary-music
    "minimax cd - A 5" CD with a 3" playing area in the centre and clear plastic surround."
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Looking at
    https://www.discogs.com/release/1400178-Limited-Edition-Minimax-CD/history#latest
    I also tag PabloPlato who rightly wrote there
    "please flip your copy of this CD over and confirm whether or not the metallic area goes from the center to the outer edge. if it stops part way leaving clear plastic with no reflective metallic material all the way to the edge, then this is not a true Minimax CD and should have that tag removed from the format. the use in the title would be fine but would be a misnomer."
    He's right - it's not a minimax.
    What I don't know is whether the tag could ever be allowed simply because the release self-describes as that..? (We've had some examples of things that were not released as singles tagged as singles because the description single is actually found on the release itself, etc)
    My reaction here would be to remove the tag and makes sure the Notes spell out "Although self-described as a minimax CD, the disc design is actually not a minimax: the gold reflective surface extends all the way to the edge of the CD and there is no clear plastic ring outside the 3" area." vel sim.
  • PabloPlato over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    What I don't know is whether the tag could ever be allowed simply because the release self-describes as that..?


    a vinyl release may describe itself as a clear edition but if the contents inside are solid black it would be incorrect to enter Clear into the format. you point out the mistake in the release notes and confirm the reality of the release.

    there is no image of the underside for this release, but you can see through the cd face paint-job to the reflective layer underneath, https://www.discogs.com/Smart-Es-Sesames-Treet/release/90077#images/386595 , the play area is distinctly split from the rest of the silver area, in this case leaving the unplayable silver surface mirror-like, super reflective, and not like a usual cd where the run-out section while still reflective is somewhat hazy. this smart e's cd is super clean and reflective in it's mirror like quality, and i think many of the releases incorrectly tagged as minimax in this thread (ie; the yello releases) are similar. if you were to scan these i am betting the scanner would pick them up as black or dark grey, hence compounding the confusion. but they are not minimax.

    two minimax examples:

    https://www.discogs.com/Moby-Bodyrock/release/143949#images/3120437
    i scanned the cd against a white and black background to emphasize the clear section.

    https://www.discogs.com/Legion-Of-Green-Men-The-Borderless-EP/release/43275#images/1170623

    zevulon, i am a bit surprised that you wouldn't be aware of the fundamental physical nature of what makes a cd a minimax.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    PabloPlato
    you point out the mistake in the release notes and confirm the reality of the release.

    That's exactly correct.

    PabloPlato
    https://www.discogs.com/Legion-Of-Green-Men-The-Borderless-EP/release/43275#images/1170623

    That's a wonderful artwork example - I hadn't seen that one before.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    these are the CD design equivalents of "uncut shaped picture discs"


    Yes! If it is metal or plastic is of NO importance!
    This is EXACTLY what I mean - the picture disc - made of vinyl - has an inert outer surface -that can be cut off, when it comes to pic discs.

    The CD is made of Metal, so the inert outer material witn no grooves/data could've been cut off, but when it comes to Minimax, it hasn't.
    The most apparent examples have plastic as inert material, but certainly not all.

    If you look at the examples that you "don't approve of" - you'll have to see that they are uncut 3" CDs.
    I don't get why this is so hard to discern.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    PabloPlato
    zevulon, i am a bit surprised that you wouldn't be aware of the fundamental physical nature of what makes a cd a minimax.


    Are you, really..? To be frank: I'm not at all.
    The user typically fixates on something, makes lots of contentious edits here, is challenged in a Forum about them, and then lashes out at those who challenge him - cf bizarre attacks at velove above.

    zevulon
    The most apparent examples have plastic as inert material, but certainly not all.

    There are no examples anyone can find of any CD termed a minimax that doesn't use plastic as the built-in adaptor *apart from subs such as you have erroneously changed on this database*.
    Please demonstrate to us where you have found this terminology used for a non-plastic hubbed disc off-site.

    The minimax design was to use a clear plastic edging of some form.
    JeroenG8 and PabloPlato have patiently explained in detail and with good linked examples about discs that are not using clear plastic edging and might look as if they have differently textured outer areas, but cannot be considered minimaxes.

    I have explained to you the history of the plastic adaptor around a 3" mini CD becoming an in-built plastic adaptor and the physical manufacturing process of how a minimax is made; I have actually linked manufacturers for this - I have explained the semi-substrate description.

    But you are not listening to anyone else or their experience because you have yet again fixated you are correct and everyone else is wrong.

    You have decided to fixate on the words "usually transparent" in Discogs own description and use this as a basis to add the minimax epithet to non plastic using, non semi-substrate discs just because there is a remote physical similarity based on different texture areas of a disc. Those words "usually transparent" in Discogs were presumably chosen because whilst most initial minimaxes were a clear plastic with no coloration at all, the design involved to use coloured translucent plastics, and then elaborated further with more artwork etc. But they were always intended to describe PLASTIC.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    But they were always intended to describe PLASTIC.


    But weren't.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    I have explained to you the history of the plastic adaptor around a 3" mini CD becoming an in-built plastic adaptor and the physical manufacturing process of how a minimax is made; I have actually linked manufacturers for this - I have explained the semi-substrate description.


    Yes - you have tried - but I see no explanation that holds for your argument. You just link to pics on Discogss? That's your argument?

    The material for the 3" playing surface is not the same as the outer non-playing semi-substrate material, agreed, if this is metal or plastic is of no importance. Minimax is a 3" CD with added material to its rim in order to make it the size of a 5" CD. Clear plastic is cooler than metal, but neither has a playing surface - they are just filler material.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    Yes - you have tried - but I see no explanation that holds for your argument. You just link to pics on Discogss? That's your argument?


    Have you actually even bothered to read all of this thread..?
    Have you bothered to look at the site for the company which makes minimaxes..?
    Have you bothered to read the minimax description on other media selling sites..?

    What is the point of giving you info?! - you simply ignore what you don't like.

    What is the point of asking you any questions?! - you simply ignore what you don't like.
    I asked you to look at the Yello CDs and explain how they could equate to a "CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record" as per the Discogs own description of a minimax - you ignored that.
    I asked you if you could see anything on the disc label side of the Yello discs that indicates a distinct separation between the 3" and 5" sections as per minimax specification - you ignored that.
    I asked you how it was possible to have a CD which has a supposed minimax one side and standard CD the other - you ignored that.
    I asked you demonstrate to us where you have found minimax terminology used for a non-plastic hubbed disc off-site - you ignored that.

    Everyone can see what you are doing here.

    As no-one can argue rationally with you - it will have to come down to simple majority view.

    At present
    prometheusrussell
    JeroenG8
    PabloPlato
    are all clear on what the physical properties of a minimax is - 5" CD comprised of a plastic hubbed built-in adaptor around a 3" CD.

    You
    zevulon
    are the only dissenting voice.

    I will update this as other users opine and encourage other users linked here to give their verdict.
  • 0bleak over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    in the same way you cannot have a vinyl which is clear vinyl or picture disc on one side and then standard black vinyl on the other.


    Not to derail the thread, but this is actually possible.
    I actually started a thread to get another format for this kind of record: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/721648
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    If you look at the examples that you "don't approve of" - you'll have to see that they are uncut 3" CDs.

    Technically EVERY 5" CD is an uncut 3" CD.
    So in your reasoning EVERY 5" CD is a Minimax?? Then why invent a special tag for it?

    No, those "unapproved examples" are not uncut 3" CD's, they are 5" CD's of which the outer part is not technically prepared to be pressed with data or music. That's all. No Minimax, no 3" with some special gimmick, just a standard 5" CD.
  • hafler3o over 5 years ago

    I believe prometheusrussell to be correct, count me in that group. A minimax is 'clearly' different to a 5" disc.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    0bleak
    I actually started a thread to get another format for this kind of record: https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/721648

    What interesting hybrid items.
    As you say, the way to tag these on the Format menu is unclear as there is no Hybrid drop down when vinyl is entered.
    I think I'd go for Vinyl, Picture Disc and add Hybrid in free text field - then add details in Notes.

    But their physical manufacture is by attaching two separately components - a picture disc vinyl section to a standard black vinyl section.

    There is no CD equivalent of physically attaching 2 CDs together - and leaving a minimax side (3" with plastic hub making it 5") welded to a standard 5" silvered disc.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    Technically EVERY 5" CD is an uncut 3" CD.


    Why stop there..?! Be bold!
    Every 12" vinyl is an uncut 7" vinyl. Let's tag them all!
    The possibilities are exciting and endless when you let logic fly out the window...
  • velove over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    Those words "usually transparent" in Discogs were presumably chosen because whilst most initial minimaxes were a clear plastic with no coloration at all, the design involved to use coloured translucent plastics, and then elaborated further with more artwork etc. But they were always intended to describe PLASTIC.

    I'd be happy if the format description can be updated to say that only plastic was meant. that would put an end to the dispute and make it clear what was meant by the format.

    Seems the majority is of that opinion.
    Seems also that there is no clear external source that would define the format but there's probably a reason why everyone is talking about clear discs. Would still be interested to see some proper definition though. not just some marketing or one sentence non definition definition.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    Why stop there..?! Be bold!
    Every 12" vinyl is an uncut 7" vinyl. Let's tag them all!
    The possibilities are exciting and endless when you let logic fly out the window...

    You know.... I actually was indeed thinking of adding that too, but thought it was too stupid to mention :-)
  • bobbley over 5 years ago

    hafler3o
    I believe prometheusrussell to be correct, count me in that group. A minimax is 'clearly' different to a 5" disc.

    same here.

    My example of a mini-max:
    https://www.discogs.com/Michael-Jackson-Blood-On-The-Dance-Floor/release/246228

    I remember hearing/reading somewhere that on a 5" CD, it can hold 45 minutes of music, is it? but for the singles charts, only releases with 22minutes of music or less were classed as singles and could enter this chart.
    A CD plays inside outwards and so 22minutes of music appears as a grey band covering the first inch or so outwards of the playing medium; the remainder is just 'blank' CD space...and not a mini-max.

    ...with the MJ example above, the recordable medium doesn't extend the full 5 inches (excuse me ladies!) - this is therefore a mini max. On the Prince CD, the recordable medium extends the full width of the disc...but only 15-16 minutes of the available length is used, therefore NOT a mini-max....
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    interesting how big the issue blow up of this "lovely" minimax thread
    [the comment i refer is meanwhile deleted by staff]

    however

    i i wonder some little things:
    • why is nowhere official source that make a clear line
    • how it was introduced to the formats?
    • who made the definition (based on what)?
    • do we need it?

    OT i know: but i think a package field is much more needed ;-)

    velove
    Seems also that there is no clear external source that would define the format but there's probably a reason why everyone is talking about clear discs. Would still be interested to see some proper definition though.

    why not delete the format it's not useful nor interesting and it causes confusion . . .
  • bobbley over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    why not delete the format it's not useful nor interesting and it causes confusion . . .

    but:
    hafler3o
    A minimax [CD] is 'clearly' different to a 5" [CD] disc.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    why not delete the format

    Yes, that's always a good answer to anything in Life - simply delete a problem rather than correct it.... It's not a problem for me or the majority of users on the database who are using it quite correctly.
    Why would we all want the tag removed just because you don't like it..?

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    it's not useful

    Yes it is. Very. It tells us it is a non standard media production and about the substance from which the disc is made.
    Should we delete the Picture Disc form the vinyl menu..? It's exactly the same principle.

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    nor interesting

    Yes it is! Very interesting to many of us. Some people are specific minimax collectors just as some people are specific picture disc collectors.

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    it causes confusion

    No, it doesn't. It really doesn't.
    If some users had consulted before editing records on a completely misunderstood basis and others users had bothered to find out more about what it was before weighing in on the subject, then there would have been no confusion.

    Why should the database be changed for everyone just because you personally think it's neither useful nor interesting and find it confusing..?
    I find that sentiment quite beyond me.

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    the comment i refer is meanwhile deleted by staff

    Well, indeed and as so typical.
    Yet again we have zevulon making a whole series of MULTIPLE EDITS without authorisation and without Forum consent. Completely against Guidelines 14.1.2. How many Forum threads have I read where that has been the case? - far too many.
    The edits were clearly contentious - as I have linked above, a whole series of other users commented in those Yello CD subs... but they were typically ignored ... and the edits just continued without pause.
    The reversals I made to the Prince CD sub were to reverse wholly invalid edits. I was following the Gudielines in giving the EI votes.
    Typically we then we have the aggressive behaviour as expressed to other users above and then whining to the Support Staff.
    This utterly uncollegiate behaviour by the user in question is cyclical and can be analysed in many Forum threads about contentious edits over the years.
    As typical other users have to get involved or the behaviour and erroneous editing would not stop.
    Such is Life.
    I have no issue stating this as baldy as I just have done, as sometimes these things need to be made very clear.
  • andygrayrecords over 5 years ago

    My understanding of minimax is exactly that as laid out by Prometheus.
    A 3" disc contained within a 5" disc.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    andygrayrecords
    A 3" disc contained within a 5" disc.


    As I also have it.
    prometheusrussell
    Typically we then we have the aggressive behaviour as expressed to other users above and then whining to the Support Staff.


    I wouldn't conclude that you are a decent or nice person when I read your posts, but then again, you don't have to be.

    Again. For wrong or right, to me a Minimax is a "A 3" disc contained within a 5" disc". If this infuriates some people, then I can only apologize.
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    just because you don't like it..?

    please do not hawk things i never said

    may i repeat from the OP?
    i wonder what is going on and what is and what is not a "MINIMAX"...


    - thank you
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    just because you don't like it..?
    please do not hawk things i never said


    I'm so sorry.
    I had presumed this was a comment of disapproval:
    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    why not delete the format it's not useful nor interesting and it causes confusion . . .

    But I now realise you meant it as approbation.
    Silly old me.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    For wrong or right, to me a Minimax is...

    The problem is that this is a multi-user collegiate database and so it has to abide by a collective majority viewpoint.
    It can't have zevulons adding tags to all and sundry because "for right or wrong, for them it is a minimax".
    It has to use the tag correctly and as agreed by the collective majority viewpoint.
    This is the thorny issue which we have again here and have had on some of your similar mass edits in the past.

    zevulon
    If this infuriates some people...

    It doesn't matter whether it infuriates any of us. If you continue to make unsubstantiated mass edits and decide you are not bound by a collective viewpoint, you will continue to have these clashes and difficulties with other members of the discogs community. I don't actually understand why you want to immerse yourself in a community-based database if you are so hostile to the idea of community decision making.

    zevulon
    I wouldn't conclude that you are a decent or nice person

    I am sure I have many deep character flaws, without doubt.
    But I am always logical and I am punctiliously fair - and will always abide by democracy. Think about that.

    Thank you to other users who have expressed their opinions above.

    In summa -
    We now stand at
    prometheusrussell
    JeroenG8
    PabloPlato
    hafler3o
    bobbley
    andygrayrecords
    are all clear on what the physical properties of a minimax is - 5" CD comprised of a plastic hubbed built-in adaptor around a 3" CD.

    Vs

    zevulon as the only dissenting voice and who would like to extend the tag to such an example as
    https://www.discogs.com/release/669959-Kiss/history#latest
    which JeroenG8 reminds us
    JeroenG8
    it's the most standard way CD-singles look like, at least in Europe, 99,9% of all CD-singles look like this
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love edited over 5 years ago
    prometheusrussell
    5" CD comprised of a plastic hubbed built-in adaptor around a 3" CD

    Count me in. Except - it may actually be a DVD too: Pet Shop Boys - Minimal.

    Yes, those early 5" CD singles with a "mirror" metal area outside of the playing area are kind of cool and a bit special, but they're not Minimax CDs.
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    https://www.discogs.com/help/doc/forums

    Please don’t be a jerk. Rudeness and belittling language are not okay.
    Don’t start a flame war or publicly name and shame another user.
    If you are having trouble with another user, please review our tips for How to Handle
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    Yes, those early 5" CD singles with a "mirror" metal area outside of the playing area are kind of cool and a bit special, but they're not Minimax CDs.


    I'll have to accept this on Discogs, even if it's strange that not all expanded 3" CDs are treated the same.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    even if it's strange that not all expanded 3" CDs are treated the same.

    They actually are.
    Point is, the examples which are causing all the trouble here are not expanded 3" CD's, at best you can call them narrowed 5" CD's :-)
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    They actually are.


    Obviously not, considering the plastic lobby in this thread. Metal as filling material is totally disregarded as opposed to Minimaxclearplasticsubstratics.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    Metal as filling material is totally disregarded as opposed to Minimaxclearplasticsubstratics.

    Point is: The metal you are referring to is not filling material. It is part of the main 5" disc, just not technically prepared for pressing music on. But somehow I have the feeling it doesn't matter what I say, because you will not listen to it anyway.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    The metal you are referring to is not filling material. It is part of the main 5" disc, just not technically prepared for pressing music on.

    Come again? There are absolutely no sign of any polycarbonate disc layer outside the 3" playing surface, so no, that is probably not the case at all.
    But somehow I have the feeling it doesn't matter what I say, because you will not listen to it anyway.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    There are absolutely no sign of any polycarbonate disc layer outside the 3" playing surface

    I never said that, I said
    JeroenG8
    The metal you are referring to is not filling material. It is part of the main 5" disc, just not technically prepared for pressing music on.

    which is 100% true.

    Now I am fed up with this discussion for now, so I am going to bed... sleep well.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    t
    JeroenG8
    It is part of the main 5" disc.


    duh, yeah? as is the plastic. your point being?
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    t
    JeroenG8It is part of the main 5" disc.

    duh, yeah? as is the plastic. your point being?

    Point is: the plastic is not , which you fail to understand time after time.
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    Point is: the plastic is not


    Then you haven't ever seen a Minimax, cause the plastic is 100% part of the main 5" disc. Just have a look.
    It's like saying that the protective outer plastic layer isn't a part of the CD, like they would be CDrs.
    It's a bit sad to have to point this out.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    All of this actually does not matter. You're still in minority here.
    Time to revert all your edits, please.
  • OLDFRIENDSFORSALE over 5 years ago

    because the questions remain, are ignored with override with masses of meaningless text - that are not answers but plenty of hawks, nitpicking on minor remarks and other close to slander accusations - instead of answer 3 simple questions here again:

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE

    • why is nowhere official source that make a clear line?
    • how it was introduced to the formats?
    • who made the definition (based on what)?
    • do we need it?


    thank you
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    OLDFRIENDSFORSALE
    thank you


    Yes, thank you. My nitpicking part is still to the fact that the metal or plastic are interchangeable as they have no playing surface and both present an expanded 3".
    Why or how any format can explain this has yet to be revealed.
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    except zevulon, who insists these should all be called Minimaxes

    zevulon
    I'll have to accept this on Discogs, even if it's strange that not all expanded 3" CDs are treated the same.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    JeroenG8except zevulon, who insists these should all be called Minimaxes

    zevulonI'll have to accept this on Discogs, even if it's strange that not all expanded 3" CDs are treated the same.


    Well, then why hasn't zevulon reverted his edits by now?
    Apparently he says he accept it, but he will not revert his incorrect edits.
    So much for accepting....
  • zevulon over 5 years ago

    JeroenG8
    Well, then why hasn't zevulon reverted his edits by now?
    Apparently he says he accept it, but he will not revert his incorrect edits.
    So much for accepting....


    Oh God! So, I didn't remember all those!
    Good there's a word in Hebrew for the one who accusates, JeroenG8, I'm so sorry.
    Do look up that Hebrew word, cause that's You.

    Please remind me if I forgot any!

    Good to have you on here, really, I have reverted the Simple Minds one.
  • JeroenG8 over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    Good to have you on here, really, I have reverted the Simple Minds one.

    You forgot Prince - Kiss, Simple Minds - Glitterball & Bangles - Hazy Shade Of Winter ... and probably some more.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    zevulon
    Good there's a word in Hebrew for the one who accusates, JeroenG8, I'm so sorry.
    Do look up that Hebrew word, cause that's You.


    Your behaviour in this episode, zevulon, has been simply appalling and shameless.

    You have undertaken a mass edit without consultation when you are a user of long-standing and know exactly how things work here, and yet you regularly persist in doing this.

    You have launched attacks on 3 other users in this Forum thread and argued with other users on the submissions where minimax was wrongly applied.

    There has been unanimous agreement from the rest of the community here about what a minimax is and yet you still have wished to argue that you have some solipsistic understanding of what it is.

    You have argued and argued and not accepted a majority decision without any sort of grace.

    You are now going around reverting some [not all...] of your edits [good, thank you] but I find you are actually writing on them:
    "I've been opposed..." (!)

    I mean, seriously...
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    And on this sub
    https://www.discogs.com/release/5287930-Glitterball/history?utm_campaign=release-update&utm_medium=email&utm_source=relationship#latest
    You have now added to the Notes.
    "3" cd with an integral metal rim that renders it a normal 5" CD."

    NO!
    No... it's not a 3" CD. It's a standard 5" CD.
    This is entirely your bizarre, personal, arbitrary, fantasy description.
    No-one else would try to describe it thus except you. No other user would understand what on earth that meant. You have NO consensus from the community that this would be any sort of correct description of these discs: in fact you have unanimity that you are misunderstanding this entirely. What you have added is wrong and utterly misleading.

    Please immediately remove this meaningless and confusing description on that edit and on any other such edits.
  • hafler3o over 5 years ago

    A metal rim! Like Oddjob's bowler hat? Or maybe spectacles? I'm just glad other forum members have the stamina to deal with this nonsense.
  • PabloPlato over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    You have now added to the Notes.
    "3" cd with an integral metal rim that renders it a normal 5" CD."

    NO!
    No... it's not a 3" CD. It's a standard 5" CD.
    This is entirely your bizarre, personal, arbitrary, fantasy description.
    No-one else would try to describe it thus except you. No other user would understand what on earth that meant.


    seriously!
  • andygrayrecords over 5 years ago

  • Diognes_The_Fox over 5 years ago

    Please remain civil when working with other members in the forums and database.

    They're just CD's, gosh.

    JeroenG8
    https://www.discogs.com/Yello-Call-It-Love/release/130119#images/24896452
    https://www.discogs.com/Prince-Kiss/release/669959
    https://www.discogs.com/Simple-Minds-Glitterball/release/5287930


    I'm in agreement here. I wouldn't apply minimax to these types of releases. A standard CD 5" CD with 3" worth of data is different from a 3" CD with 3" worth of data and a 2" worth of dead space. Or something.

    I don't think "usually clear" was intended that "some surfaces are metal". It seems more that some surfaces could be painted, etc. In those cases, however, it appears that the metal material extends to the edge of the disc.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    Please remain civil when working with other members in the forums and database.

    They're just CD's, gosh.


    Hello Brent, thank you for adding your voice here.

    Yes, they are just CDs, but the majority of those of us commenting in this thread of us clearly feel that it is important to protect the integrity of your excellent database when a user is determined to act in a non-collegiate and vandalising manner.

    As shown in https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/191955#2413495 the database manage himself actually spells out what a minimax means to this user 7 years ago.

    It is not clear to me how you would like/request other users to work with you to maintain the database's integrity when a user is determined to act as a free agent and act against the database community.

    When controversial editing is commented upon in a sub history and unauthorised mass edits are reverted with EIs, the user in question has just reversed the edits again.

    Reporting the behaviour of the user in question in a SR has got 100% nowhere.

    Addressing the issue in a Forum thread here has led to more antagonism and a refusal to revise the edits and misleading descriptions from the user in question, even when they are a single voice against the unanimous view of the users who have participated here.

    Please thus advise us clearly what procedure you would want users to follow in this scenario.

    Thank you.
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love edited over 5 years ago
    Diognes_The_Fox
    It seems more that some surfaces could be painted, etc. In those cases, however, it appears that the metal material extends to the edge of the disc.

    ? The metal material of a minimax is always 3", with the rest being plastic. That plastic is generally transparent, in fact I don't think I've ever seen a minimax with opaque plastic. It may of course be printed just like any other CD - it usually is - it may also be coloured transparent as seen on for example Michael Jackson - Blood On The Dance Floor.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    ? The metal material of a minimax is always 3", with the rest being plastic.


    He was referring to the discs erroneously tagged as minimaxes which have metal material extending to the edge.

    A minimax always has the 3" to 5" radius area as a ring of plastic.
    The plastic maybe clear, it may be colour tinted, it may be painted clear, it may be painted colour tinted.

    The minimax description currently reads:
    "A Miniature CD single with a (usually transparent) built-in 12cm adaptor, which makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise. Plays on all CD players, like a normal CD. Also called Fan Disc, AB-CD, and Semi-Substrate disc."

    To avoid any ambiguity this should read something like
    "A Miniature [3"/8cm] CD single with an outer ring of plastic acting as a built-in adaptor and making the total CD size 5"/12cm. The plastic ring may be completely clear, colour-tinted or include painted artwork, and design-wise makes a CD equivalent of a clear or tinted vinyl record. Plays on all CD players, like a normal CD. Also called Fan Disc, AB-CD, and Semi-Substrate disc."
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love edited over 5 years ago
    prometheusrussell
    The plastic maybe clear, it may be colour tinted, it may be painted clear, it may be painted colour tinted.

    So the actual plastic may not be opaque? As for "painted", I'd rather say "printed". Also, as I pointed out above, it's not exclusive to CDs, there are minimax DVDs too (don't know about Blu-ray).

    "makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise" is rather confusing I think, I guess they must mean that the 3" area resembles the vinyl label area then?

    As for the discs with a "mirror" metal area outside of the playing area (NOT minimax), I've checked a couple that I own myself, and the playing area of those is in fact not 3" but slightly larger: Depeche Mode - Never Let Me Down Again and Depeche Mode - Behind The Wheel (Remix).
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    So the actual plastic may not be opaque

    I've never actually come across an example myself where the plastic is not to some extent translucent (apart from the bits where any added printed artwork stops light going through) - but it would surely be possible. Or is that such a thin slice of coloured plastic that it would have to be very opaque not to let some light through (?)

    Mr-Love
    there are minimax DVDs too (don't know about Blu-ray)

    Yes of course - I meant to acknowledge that above - I have a couple of minimax DVD singles.
    I presume a blu-ray disc in theory could be 3" and thus made into a minimax (though are any blu-rays ever 3"/ish or would you likely need the full 5"/12cm for the data they are likely to contain..?)
    I presume there are no CDr minimaxes... I'm not aware of a 3" CDr / DVDr...

    Mr-Love
    As for "painted", I'd rather say "printed"

    That is indeed better. My text was not supposed to be definitive and should be improved.
    But what we have at present needs clarity especially as the existing words mostly transparent have been wilfully and gratuitously used to pseudo-minimax what are clearly not minimaxes.

    Mr-Love
    "makes it look like a CD equivalent of a "clear vinyl" record, design-wise" is rather confusing I think, I guess they must mean that the 3" area resembles the vinyl label area then?

    Yes, I presume that was intended to suggest the 3" bit with a clear surround is a bit like the record label artwork with the clear vinyl area surround. My suggested update text was keeping what was there already but I am not totally convinced that bit is helpful.
    Mr-Love
    the playing area of those is in fact not 3" but slightly larger

    I tried pointing out the area on the Simple Minds CD which was disputed was fractionally over 3". But we'd already gone full Odd-Job bowler hat metal rim by then anyway... [qv supra]
  • 0bleak over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    I presume there are no CDr minimaxes... I'm not aware of a 3" CDr / DVDr...


    I don't know if there are CDR minimaxes, but there are definitely 3" CDrs. I have over 70 of them in my collection. I also have a shaped 3" CDr.
  • velove over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell
    "A Miniature [3"/8cm] CD single with an outer ring of plastic acting as a built-in adaptor and making the total CD size 5"/12cm. The plastic ring may be completely clear, colour-tinted or include painted artwork, and design-wise makes a CD equivalent of a clear or tinted vinyl record. Plays on all CD players, like a normal CD. Also called Fan Disc, AB-CD, and Semi-Substrate disc."

    Such a formulation would have prevented this whole thing happening so I'm +1 for an update.
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    0bleak
    I also have a shaped 3" CDr.

    Oh that's groovy... Is it on the database here? I'm fascinated to see what type of release it's for.
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love edited over 5 years ago
    0bleak
    I don't know if there are CDR minimaxes

    54 hits: https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=minimax&format_exact=Minimax&format_exact=CDr&type=release
    No matches for Blu-ray minimax.

    Just realised there is a separate description for DVD minimax on https://www.discogs.com/help/formatslist
    Very few DVD minimaxes in the database, just 7 hits, of which at least 2 are incorrect, probably more: https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=minimax&format_exact=Minimax&format_exact=DVD&type=release
  • 0bleak over 5 years ago

    0bleak edited over 5 years ago
    prometheusrussell
    0bleakI also have a shaped 3" CDr.
    Oh that's groovy... Is it on the database here? I'm fascinated to see what type of release it's for.


    https://www.discogs.com/Clau-DEDI-VITRIOL/release/617371 but no image of the CDr itself

    looks like there are a few more in the database with some more interesting shapes:
    https://www.discogs.com/search/?format_exact=CDr&format_exact=Mini&format_exact=Shape&type=release
  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    54 hits: https://www.discogs.com/search/?q=minimax&format_exact=Minimax&format_exact=CDr&type=release

    Looking at those there are a few that are not minimaxes, but clearly most are. Very interesting examples. As I linked to the manufacturing site above: you take along your 3" disc, so whatever format it is, they will specification minimax it for you. Presumably 3" DVDrs possible since we know there are 3" DVDs.

    0bleak
    looks like there are a few more in the database with some more interesting shapes:
    https://www.discogs.com/search/?format_exact=CDr&format_exact=Mini&format_exact=Shape&type=release


    Now this is very groovy:
    https://www.discogs.com/Napalmed-Ma-Kelove-No-Twar/release/3131005
  • Mr-Love over 5 years ago

  • prometheusrussell over 5 years ago

    Mr-Love
    Like a shaped minimax. :)

    Have just changed format to minimax on it.
  • 0bleak over 5 years ago

    prometheusrussell: Speaking of interesting formats/sizes/shapes of CDrs, there are also a lot of Business Card CDrs. I forgot about those earlier because Business Card is its own format with its own shape and size (holds less than 6 minutes). There are more of those on CDr (751) than CD (126).

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