• simfonik over 17 years ago

    Teo, can we use more standard record gradings, and put clear definitions as to what each of the ratings mean in the FAQ or somewhere that is easily accessible?

    Starting suggestions (please feel free to expand):

    New - New (Vinyl has not been played and is new)
    M - Mint (Vinyl has hardly been played, and is in "as new" condition, with no signs of wear whatsoever)
    NM - Near Mint (Vinyl has been played, but is in impecible condition, with very little to no signs of wear)
    EX - Excellent (Vinyl has been played more regularly, but shows little wear, with only very little sign of audio degredation)
    VG - Very Good (Vinyl has been played often, shows some signs of wear, only a small amount of 'noise' should be present)
    F - Fair (Vinyl has a lot of crackling and 'noise', shows more significant signs of wear)
    P - Poor (Vinyl may skip, snaps-crackles & pops are present throughout)

    This is just a starting point to get you guys talking... I think it wouldn't hurt to get more detailed in our descriptions of conditions. Maybe even make it so that Vinyl that has a rating VG condition or lower has to have a comment on the condition as well? I don't know... just thinking out loud here.

  • simfonik over 17 years ago

    i don't collect CD's, so someone else could comment on that format.
  • Anonymous

    Anonymous over 17 years ago

    New and M are almost exactly the same, as are NM and EX, right?
  • twisted-TXB over 17 years ago

    too complicated. current system is alright, add comments if you need to add further details on the item's grading.
  • djlargetesticles over 17 years ago

    I think more grading options are a good idea. maybe it's just me, but if I'm listing a record that is not "like new" but still only has a handful of plays, I hate to have to downgrade it to Very Good... just sounds like it's kinda beat up if you label it that. Something in between would be nice.
  • tracerfirefm over 17 years ago

    "exactly the same, as are NM and EX, right?"

  • tracerfirefm over 17 years ago

    and imo 'mint' and 'new' should be merged. a mint record will have NEVER been played and in PERFECT condition

    'mint' is an overused term imo.
  • dansauk over 17 years ago

    MINT refers to coinage. A MINT condition coin means one that has just come off the MINT. ie. NEW.

    So NEW = MINT (as tracerfirefm suggests)
  • 1st_Hextatic over 17 years ago

    there are 2 general gradings around...
    the english: with excellent
    the european (that i use): after mint comes very good with graduation +/-
    so an very good record here is excellent there.
    for the covers, somebody can use m/vg, for instance
    record first/cover second
  • moseslawson over 17 years ago

    To be honest i think a lot of this will become academic once sellers are established and get positive feedback. It all boils down to a trust issue.
  • simfonik over 17 years ago

    right, but "Very Good" is traditionally a lesser condition. i think that was my biggest problem with the current grading system here. i agree that Mint and New are really the same thing... how about

    Very Good

    A user can then comment to stress that a record is VG+ or any other inbetween condition.

  • Anonymous

    Anonymous over 17 years ago

    I said:
    New and M are almost exactly the same, as are NM and EX, right?

    tracerfire disagreed with me, and then didnt follow up. We both agree the first part is right, but i still want to know why you think Near Mint and Excellent conditions are different, they appear to be virtually the same.
  • pbl3 over 17 years ago

    I think it's worth including both NM and EX if your definition of New/Mint strictly means never played. In this case, NM would mean it has been played, but still looks/sounds new; whereas with EX, you actually start to have a little wear.

    If New also includes "like new" (aka NM), then there's no need for a NM (from my POV)
  • Anonymous

    Anonymous over 17 years ago

    I would agree with you there pbl.
  • InfiniteTable over 17 years ago

    I think it's probably best keeping the system as it is, as there's no way all you guys are gonna come to an agreement :)

    Sellers will probably take their own interpretation of the meanings anyway, if the buyer is concerned about the condition of the record they should probably enquire before buying.
  • pbl3 over 17 years ago

    pbl3 edited over 17 years ago
    ^I agree that to some extent it's up to the seller to properly describe their products by whatever standards they choose, but at the same time it's good to have a general standard to fall back on. Especially for new sellers who don't know any better or are too lazy to read up on grading methods.

    Sellers should be able to alter or over-ride the default standards to their liking, but having them there as a safety net will probably prevent many potentially unhappy customers in the future.

    [edit] after actually looking at the grading system in place (okay i'm an idiot and i didnt look before), I see that there is a standard, just not a very good one. I think using a standard more like GEMM will go smoother. my .02
  • Anonymous

    Anonymous over 17 years ago

    I think it would make sense to adopt a simple version of the standard record collectors grading system as mentioned above.
  • KidJ over 17 years ago

    let's not forget that people browse discogs who are not all that informed about generally used record grading standards. the ones being currently used are easy to understand and more or less self-explanatory. at least to me they are totally clear:

    NEW - new
    LIKE NEW - played but still in a condition comaparble to NEW (="NM")
    VERY GOOD - played & used but still in great condition (="EX-" or "VG+")
    GOOD - noticably used but still ok (G+)
    ACCEPTABLE - hey, they finally corrected that embarrassing typo!!
  • KidJ over 17 years ago

    in my opininon it's ok like it is now. no need to change anything.
  • orangecat over 17 years ago

    Why can't we just use the standard Goldmine guidlines that have ben around for several years now?



    In Composing this Q & A, the following people have participated with vital information....

    Susan Murray (NOD International Records)[email protected]
    Fred Walker (Vinylonly) [email protected]
    Paula Major (Paula's House of Music) [email protected] (Paula),

    Copyright 1996 by Weldon T. Toms & Goldmine (1974?) Any additional insight can be forwarded to Tim at [email protected] for future updates if needed. Grades listed will not be altered or modified. The following grades defined are those as listed with Goldmine magazine.

    This is not to say that other grading systems are not viable. This is the most mainstream system used as compared to others that are not. It is to be used only as a reference but to keep in mind, that when grading, anyone can choose alternative means to grading records, as long as they can define the terms the use without confusion.

    FAQ: Compiled August 16th, 1996


    Goldmine Grading System Defined:Questions & Answers


    Questions in this section:

    Q1: What is the Goldmine Grading System ?

    Q2: How can I grade my own vinyl based on these grades?



    Q1: What is the Goldmine Grading System ?

    A1: The Goldmine Grading System was 1st created in the early years of record collecting. These grades were established from various other resources pertaining to collecting (for example coin, book, comics, and card collecting) Goldmine Magazine first published a grading scale in 1974.
    It has undergone changes through out the years, yet has for the most part remained the same.
    Remember! Two people may not come up with the same grade for the same record. One person may feel a record is MINT and another may say NM (Near Mint). After reading the next part of this answer, perhaps you will be able to identify each grade with out too much confusion, and allow yourself to grade more conservatively (fairly).

    Grade Scale with definitions of each grade: ==================================================

    Q2: How can I grade my own vinyl based on these grades?

    A2: Below is the grade scale and what you should look for when assessing a grade for each record you have.
    MINT or M : Perfect! A mint record should look like it has just left the manufacturer, with NO flaws what so ever. It should look as though it had never been handled. No scuffs or scratches, blotches or stains. No stickers address labels, writing on the covers or labels. No tears or seam splits. No wear to the cover or record period! Age of the record has nothing to do with it. A MINT record from 1949 should look like a MINT record from 1996.
    The number one complaint from collectors about grading over the years, have been the deteriorating standards that dealers and private sellers have had when grading. It is only natural for most people to turn to the "MINT" grade and read "highest prices" listed in price guides. Since most price guides have a high and low price range, the assumed grade most often is NOT mint, but near mint (NM). MINT COVERS: Simply put, a mint cover should appear to have never had a record inside it. No wear to the corners or any marring on the face or back of the cover. EP jackets and 45 single picture sleeves also apply to this rule. The record inside can cause an impression (rounded shape in the face of the cover/sleeve) Many dealers or sellers feel that the artwork (the ink) has to be worn or starting to rub off, before there is any ring wear.
    NOPE!! Mint means perfect and nothing else!
    SPECIAL NOTE: It has been brought to my attention that because stickers may involve promo and special track listings that were applied from the factory, it is still not a standard practice. Promo stickers and large white programming labels (on the bottom of the covers) are considered a turn off. Therefore even these stickers would lower the grade from a MINT status to perhaps only EX. For stickers that show special announcements, such as "Featuring the hit song...etc", were not applied to all the commercial releases. Some earlier copies may not have the sticker since the song in question had not even charted yet. It was to advertise the whole LP and draw attention to the buyer. Some stickers are worth money! That means they actually have value. Most companies applied the stickers to the shrinkwrap and thus, one should save these items, but if applied to the covers, lower the covers grade. If you wish to place value on the sticker (most are anywhere from 50 cents to $2.00) then do so but make mention of the sticker being on the cover to potential buyers!

    MINT VINYL: This should be very simple to define. A mint record should look perfect, as described earlier. Any defect from the factory pressing, such as bubbles or pits in the vinyl are not acceptable! Even if they do not cause any problem when played. It should, as we said, be a perfect pressing. Records often were packaged by hand and the simple placing of the record into a paper sleeve can caused minor scuffs. Probably very insignificant, but they are flaws as never the less. For this reason, it is impossible to call a sealed record mint, thus any sealed record that is sold, should be sold only with the guarantee that it is assumed to be un-played. Sealed records have sold for more than the high end of price guides. If you are selling sealed records, be advised that many collectors shy away from them. A sight unseen record is hard to sell. A sealed record is even harder to sell.

    NEAR MINT or NM: Sometimes dealers use M- (Mint Minus)grade.
    You may need to ask the dealer if he/she uses the M- grade the same way as NM. They should mean the same thing however many people have had used several confusing grades all based around the Mint status. We define NM and or M- as being almost mint. This grade should be, for the most part, the most widely used grade for records that appear virtually flawless. Virtually flawless records are not perfect. A very minor scuff and very little else can appear on the vinyl. This will most likely have occurred during packaging, or removing the record from the inner sleeve but had been handled with extreme care. It should play without any noise over the flaw. The flaw should be very hard to see. If a scuff covers more than a few tracks yet can be seen, it will not be NM, however it may come very close. Use strong judgment when evaluating the vinyls condition.

    NEAR MINT COVERS: The cover should look as close to perfect with only minor signs of wear and or age. Minor impressions to the cover (due to the outer edge of the vinyl resting inside) may be acceptable, however the artwork should be as close to perfect as can be.
    EXCELLENT or EX or VG++: This is truly NOT Goldmine defined grade, however it is becoming more and more mainstream among collectors and sellers. It is also a very conservative grade for those who don't want to grade NM, for fear they may over grade the record and cover. In which case it is very acceptable yet should not command the highest price based on NM value. Only NM records or better are considered collectable and WILL command top dollar. Anything less, the prices drop dramatically. However many very rare (collectable) items can command very close to NM value, simply because NM copies may not even exist. This will be explained under a different topic...

    FAQ: How to value your collection based on grade (future updates forthcoming)
    EX VINYL: An excellent (EX or VG++) condition for vinyl will allow minor scuffs which are visible but only slightly. There may be more than a few, so be careful not call a record that has wear to more than 15% of the surface. The wear should be minimal and of course should play mint! Any scratches that can be felt with your fingernail can NOT be called scuffs. Scuffs lay on top of the grooves. If any break in the grooves are felt, they ARE scratches. And most often, they will be heard when played (soft clicks or even loud pops). Once again, no scratches can make this grade!
    EX COVER: Artwork should still be as close to perfect as can be. Some impression to the cover (minor outer ring wear) but no ink wear! Some slight creases to the corners, but not wrinkled and obtrusive to the eye. The corners can show white (where the artwork pasted slick was) meaning, slight wear. No seam splits or writing on the cover or taped repairs can make this grade. If you don't think a cover is NM than call it EX or less. There will be obvious reactions to the EX grade. But if you use a EX grade and price a bit lower, your risk of over grade will be reduced dramatically. You will also make more people happy, rather than trying to call it NM.
    VERY GOOD PLUS or VG+: What does this mean? Some people will call a less than NM record VG+ and skip the EX grade. Goldmine defines it as Excellent (EX), yet commands only 50% of the value (for most records). It can easily be defined as 2 ways. VG+ should be the next grade below a NM value when grading 45 singles. EX can be used for EP's. 45 singles have only 2 songs and EP's (7" by the way) can have anywhere from 3, 4, 6 and 8 (rarely found) songs on the record. With 45 singles one side may be NM and the other side may not. If the flip side is not NM but still plays well (or great, no noise), VG+ is a conservative grade. Very few 45's should be called EX unless they are of rarities. Use careful judgment when buying and selling them with this grade!
    VG+ VINYL: Now for LP's (the big ones <G>). VG+ will show wear, surface scuffs,(or spiral scuffs that came from turn table platters or jukeboxes for 45 singles) and some very light scratches. Surface scuffs are caused from blunt (not sharp) objects. Often the minor scuffs are caused from inner sleeves. The vinyl should still have a great luster, but the flaws will be noticeable to the naked eye. Sometimes holding the record up to a very bright light, you will see many tiny lines across the surface. If the flaws don't cause any surface noise, the vinyl can make the VG+ grade. Most (but not all) VG+ records should still play like a NM record. But because the vinyl has more than 15% (yet less than 30%) wear to the surface, it can make this grade. Remember, the record still should look as though it was handled with extreme care. Sometimes people find records that have no scuffs that are visible, yet a careless needle scratch causes a break in the grooves. Play the record. If there is any obtrusive clicks or pops, which cause the the song to be less than enjoyable, it may not even be VG+! Scratches are not acceptable to a serious collector in any way. If you call a record 95% NM but note the record as having 1 track with a bad scratch, many will only consider it as VG (explained next). You should seldom call a record "A Strong VG, plays mostly VG+". It does not explain the overall condition well enough. Use this very cautiously when grading.
    VG+ COVERS: Now that we defined the EX grade, a few extra flaws will make this grade.
    A virtually clean cover, but may have small writing on it. (Magic marker in big letters will not cut it. They are an eye soar, so be weary of over grading). The artwork should look clean with slightly more aging. The back of the cover usually gives away the age of the cover. Flat white paper will be somewhat yellow yet no stains or mildew from water damage. Some minor wear to the seams or spine, but no tears or holes popping through. The corners will be slightly dog eared yet no crackly bends, defacing the artwork. In essence, a VG+ cover should have no more than 3 flaws mentioned. If all apply, it is less than VG+. (see next grade below)
    VERY GOOD or VG: The Very Good Grade does not mean Very good at all. At least not in the visual sense. A Very Good (VG) record will appear well played but still have some luster. The vinyl may be faded, slightly grayish, yet appears to have been handled as carefully as it could have been helped. Records that get continuous playing time will start to deteriorate. More and more surface scuffs and scratches, and audible sound defects WILL be heard. They should not overpower the dynamics of the music. With VG records, the surface noise will be minor crackle or a slight hiss, but should only be heard in between tracks or in low musical passages.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: With Jazz and Classical recordings, the music can become very low to the point where no music is even heard. If any crackle, tics, clicks or pops are heard, these records will have very little value to a serious collector! Classical and Jazz is seldom wanted if they are in less than VG+ condition. It is wise to play these records (as should all records) when evaluating grades. Some classical records may look VG+ or even NM, however play less than than perfect. Beware of over grading these. They are difficult to grade and conservative grading is a must with them. Also equally as important. Most dealers truly will not have a lot of time playing every single LP they sell. It just is impossible. However when records have questionable flaws, the record should be tested at least where the flaw occurs in the playing surface. Visually noting the flaw may not be good enough. If the record skips, you will have made a mistake and the value would thus be less.

    VG COVERS: VG covers will look worn, used. There may be some seam splitting (but
    not completely separated!). There will be some ring wear, where the ink has begun to wear off. Giving the cover a look of snow falling. If the artwork looks snowy all over, it is less than VG condition. There may be some writing on the cover (still not LARGE letters in Magic Marker).
    It will look aged, and more yellowish due to contaminations in the air (sometimes looking like cigarette smoke). Still it should be decent. If damaged beyond any formable beauty, it will not make this grade. VG should at least still have some attractive life to it, and not have taped seams or water damage to it. If you decide to tape repair a cover, to prevent further damage, use clear scotch tape and place it on so that it is not obtrusive to the eye. If only a small split, only tape the split. Don't run tape across the entire spine or seams. Too much tape means too little interest. Use as little as possible. If the split is minor, it is best to just leave it alone. Note the flaw and go from there with the grade.
    GOOD or G (including the G+ and VG- grades): A good record will look very well played, dull, grayish and possibly abused. However a Good record should still play. It will have distracting surface noise. Such as crackle that is continuous or some hiss. Will also have some loss of dynamics caused from grooves being worn. It should play without any skips or any obtrusively loud pops or repeated clicks, caused by deep scratches. If you can't enjoy the record, it is not no longer even good. Good means that it will play with some form of decency, so one can still enjoy the music even though you can still hear noise caused from the wear.

    NOTE: Rock and Roll records generally play loud. G condition records for them will be the most likely thing that will still sell well. Jazz and Classical and easy listening in G condition are almost worthless to a collector, since the musical passages often get very low and surface noise is too distracting to the listener. Also check on 45 singles for the length of time. Records that play longer than 3 minutes, may not be as dynamic and thus any where will be heard more than the music (overpower the dynamics). Use conservative judgment when grading these types of singles.
    GOOD COVER: a Good cover will have just about everything wrong with it. It will have seam splits (possibly taped repaired, but only with scotch tape. No duct tape or masking tape repairs. these are big turn offs. May have magic marker writing on the cover but still if they are in huge letters, it is a big turn off. In essence, the cover will looked trashed, but some artwork will still be noticed. If the artwork is worn, it is POOR and the cover is worthless. Huge tears or gouges in the cover will also make the cover POOR. Be careful about sealed records, that have been water damaged. Mildew still can get inside and cause great damage to the cover, and the disc. Use common sense and you will save yourself from an over grade. NOTE:Sealed records that have water damage should be opened. Otherwise you will be in trouble later on when the cardboard starts to deteriorate inside the shrinkwrap. Attempt to dry the covers using a hair dryer (be sure to remove the record first!)
    G+ and VG-: This is separate from the above. Many records that appear in VG condition often play less than very good. Goldmine defines them as better than Good, but less than Very Good. The value should not increase more than the value of a Good record. Meaning they all should be priced somewhere within the same guideline (most often it is 10 to 15% for Good, and only 15% for Good Plus (G+) and Very Good Minus (VG-). With a G+ record, it will look just as the described condition for Good, yet may play better than it looks. Dynamics for are usually good enough to overpower the surface noise. Same for VG-, However VG- and G+ are of the same value. It is more of a visually and audible combined grade. There should be no large price increase for these records. Price them like G records and you should not have a problem.
    FAIR, & POOR: The easiest way to define this is if does not meet the lowest grade above (GOOD), it is trash. It is worthless. Unless it is so rare, it won't sale worthy at all. It is ok to throw them away or give them to someone who just wants to have them. It won't be playable for the most part, and so they are not much good hanging onto them. Very few poor records are collectable. Some rare colored vinyl or picture discs are ok, and can still be nice to have, but they won't be good enough to play again.
    Many people will buy reissues of past oldies. The era in which the vinyl is pressed makes a big difference to the way it will last and how well it will sound for years to come. Original 50's and 60's used quality materials to produce LP's. Smaller labels used less than great vinyl. A good pressing is often identified by it's thickness. Also the depth of the grooves. These will generally be better for the person who seeks quality originals. There is still the question as to the use of styrene. These are more brittle and damaged easily when played on poor equipment. Finding good playing styrene can only be found by playing them. Some styrene will play better than others. Styrene made 45s are all over the place. When they get worn, the grooves turn a brownish or even white grayish color. They may play but a great loss of dynamics will be noticed
    as well, more surface noise will be a result. Most records of this nature are worthless.


    Quick rundown in abbreviated Grading System



    EX or VG++



    G (with minor exceptions to G+ and VG-)

    F and P (Trash) (some records in Fair condition will be wanted but very, very few.

    GRADES THAT DON"T EXIST: Be weary of these grades!

    M+ (Mint Plus) : They are trying to say the record is better than MINT! No such animal. If you see this grade, avoid the record like the plague. Mint is the highest grade anything can ever be. And 99 out of 100 times the record won't even be mint! Man is not perfect! So how can a an man made product be better than perfect? Answer: Impossible!

    NM- : Near Mint Minus. Just another way of trying to get top book value for a record that is less than NM. If a seller uses this grade, ask what it means (thoroughly) as opposed to the NM or M- grade. It's your dollar and if they are selling it as less than NM yet for top dollar, you may be out of luck trying to convince them that it was an over grade on their part. If a record is slightly less than NM, then use EX or VG++.

    EX+: If you read the above the same rule holds true here. No such thing as EX+. It is just another confusing grade that does not have any defined level of agreement among collectors. People who use this grade don't want to lose money on there collectables. By upping the grade, means upping the price. Just be fair. Use conservative grades When you grade a record, put yourself in the shoes of the potential buyer. Would you want to get a record with this grade and discovery some overlooked flaws? If you sell a record for big $$$ be prepared for criticism. People will examine the record with more than just a quick glance once they receive it. Over grading will only make you look bad. And too many unhappy customers, means very few repeats (or perhaps no customers in the long run).

    VG+++: Come on, 2 plus marks are enough! No such animal!

    G++ : Ok so I use it once in a blue moon. But at least I describe the way the record plays, to a tee! The price does not go up. The grade is just a good selling point. Realistically though it does not exist. Use it rarely if ever.

    Other considerations:
    Most dealers give a separate grade to the record and its sleeve or cover. In an ad, a records grade is listed first, followed by that of the sleeve or jacket.
    With Still Sealed (SS) records, let the buyer beware, unless it's a U.S. pressing from the last 10-15 years or so. It's too easy to reseal one. Yes, some legitimately never-opened LP's from the 1960's still exist. But if you're looking for a specific pressing, the only way you can know of sure is to open the record. Also, European imports are not factory-sealed, so if you see them advertised as sealed, someone other than the manufacturer sealed them.

    Common Abreviations
    7" - standard 45 RPM co - cut-out pc - picture sleeve sl - slight UK- United Kingdom (British Pressing)
    10" - 10-inch vinyl LP dj - Disc Jockey (promo) pi - picture Insert (CD Single) sm spl - Seam Split US - United States (domestic pressing)
    12" - 12-inch single ep - Extended Play promo - promotional copy soc - sticker on cover va - various artists
    bb - bb hole in cover imp - import ps - picture sleeve (45) sol - slicker on label wlp - white label promo
    boot - bootleg lp - 12" vinyl album quad - quadraphonic ss - still sealed woc - writing on cover
    cc - cut corner m - mono Lp re - reissue s/t - self titled wol - writing on label
    cd - compact disc nap - not affecting play ri - reissue tc - title cover (12" and CD's) xol - "x" on label
    cd3 - 3" compact disc single non-lp- not on full-length LP or CD rpm - revolutions per minute ti - title insert (CD single) * check the context, as "m" can also mean "mint"
    cd5 - 5" compact disc single oc - original cast recording rw - ring wear toc - tape on cover
    coh - cut-out-hole ost - original soundtrack s - stereo Lp tol - tape on label


    Copyrighted 1996 by Weldon T. Toms & Goldmine Records (1974?)

    You have permission to download, transmit or post to other WWW sites.

    You may print for personal reference, but only if left in it's original entirety. No part can be changed without express written permission from W.T. Toms. Goldmine has a shorter version in their magazine.

    A copy of this can also be found once week posted to the following news groups (usenet reader required) rec.music.collecting.vinyl or rec.music.marketplace.vinyl

    Thank you

  • twisted-TXB over 17 years ago

    ^^ imo the guy who wrote that FAQ should spend a little more time enjoying their records instead of looking at them.
  • teo over 17 years ago

    I think we could add or change the condition fields at some point but for now I'd like to keep them simple. This has only been up for 10 days so let's see how it progresses.
  • Crateaholic over 17 years ago

    I agree with teo and Twisted-TXB. These are singles not LPs for the most part so they are much easier to grade. You can always mention specific details about the condition under the comments and potential buyers can always contact the seller to inquire about more details regarding condition. I'd rather see better searchability before I start getting all nerdy and obsessive about how is the proper way to grade records. I like these grades: Perfect/like new, played vinyl plays without audible imperfections, has crackles and or clicks, has skips, looks like vinyl spent some part of it's like as an ashtray.
  • 555xtrafunk over 17 years ago

    Unless EVERYONE not only uses the same guidelines, but also prospective buyers understand them, any universale grading system is not going to work. There will always be buyers and sellers who have a diffrent view on what Excellent Vs Very Good Vs VG+ etc etc, no matter how hard you try to get everone inline. In my experience buying and selling, and I do it a lot, it boils down to experience (good and bad) and knowledge of your buyers. Feedback systems cover this better in the long run. For me, there are differing degrees to how critical grading is, usually dependent on the value of the transaction. For high end purchases and sales, direct dialogue is far more usefull than a grading system, and for cheaper buys, some pot luck is expected. Over time, you get to know who and where you are buying from more than grading systems. I don't think a universal grading system is harmful, but not entirely important. Even if you do get a universal system in place, it only takes one fresh faced buyer or seller who has a differing interpretation and it falls down. Main problem being that any definitions are interpretable to some degree.
  • tracerfirefm over 17 years ago

    agreed with orangecat

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