• frank42 over 3 years ago

    In France, this release was distributed in 2 versions cd single Felix - Don't You Want Me and cd maxi Felix - Don't You Want Me (Original Mixes And Remixes).
    I think it is a cd maxi (different price code with the cd single+ 5 tracks vs 2 tracks) so I ask if it was a cd maxi and the answer is "no it's not if it's not mentioned on the release".
    This not mentioned "cd single" too.

    On Database Guidelines 6. Format 6.
    6.10. Album, Mini-Album, EP, Mixtape, Maxi-Single and Single tags should only be used where it is factual. If there is no reference that the use of the tag is correct, the tag should not be used. References can include:
    a) mentioned on the release : not mentioned cd single and cd maxi
    b) declared by the label or artist : no information
    c) charted in a relevant chart that corresponds to the tag : chart included in France (Maxi Dance) maxi vinyl and cd maxi in France => no information
    d) generally regarded as such by independent sources (fan sites, music industry publications etc) ; i don't found information.

    so how to define cd single and cd maxi ?
  • The_Beatles. over 3 years ago

    frank42
    so how to define cd single and cd maxi ?

    If you can’t find a source for it don’t apply either tag. They are not required.
  • Fauni-Gena over 3 years ago

    frank42
    so how to define cd single and cd maxi ?

    On Discogs both are marketing terms and only marketing terms. Length, number of tracks, and other physical attributes are irrelevant. You've quoted the correct Guidelines. 9 times our of 10, probably more than that, a quick search on the web finds a link that meets section 6.10 of the Guidelines and you just put that in submission notes. In the less than 10% of the cases where that doesn't work simply don't use either tag. The software will sort the release into either the Singles and EPs section or the Miscellaneous section automatically. Let it do that. Don't get hung up on format tags.
  • JeroenG8 over 3 years ago

    frank42
    so how to define cd single and cd maxi ?


    In France probably the same applies as in the Netherlands and Germany.
    All multitrack singles are officially called maxis by default.
    There has been a very lengthy discussion about this, lasting several years and hundreds of forum posts including several management posts, but finally after several official documents with proof were shown it was OK'd to tag Dutch and German multitrack-singles standard as 'maxi' (although some users still don't accept this, and argue that it is incorrect, which is not true)

    Problem here is that the 'maxi-single' was distributed in all of Europe (according to the current country-tag) and since several countries don't see multitrack-singles as maxis by default it will be a tough job to get this one tagged as 'maxi'.

    BTW, stenil's statement "no it's not if it's not mentioned on the release" is absolutely incorrect, as the guidelines give more ways to use the maxi-tag, as you correctly quoted.
  • stenil over 3 years ago

    JeroenG8 well, the statement is not incorrect it's just not complete including the other possibilites :) But after all there is nothing in the current rules saying this should be defined as a Maxi. Could you please provide the link with the proofs that you mention. Maybe the rules need to be updated if there is some good information supporting that.
  • JeroenG8 over 3 years ago

    stenil
    Could you please provide the link with the proofs that you mention.


    Happy reading :-)
    https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/714208
    https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/368264
    https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/364599
  • frank42 over 3 years ago

    I prefer to be clear. If I ask this question it is not against stenil but to have an informed opinion because the rules in force seems to me not obvious to interpret. In any case, I prefer that it is indicated cd single or cd maxi like nothing.
    Sorry for my poor english
  • TwinPowerForce about 1 year ago

    JeroenG8
    In France probably the same applies as in the Netherlands and Germany.


    I guess too, in the 90's, releases with slim jewelcases were announced as maxi single by journalists in French music magazines
  • djcarbines about 1 year ago

    Fauni-Gena
    On Discogs both are marketing terms and only marketing terms. Length, number of tracks, and other physical attributes are irrelevant.


    This incorrect. For chart eligibility (and therefore, compliance with guideline 6.10.c), these "marketing terms" have official definitions. However, they do change over time by territory and chart rules. For example, in the physical era, a UK single was either: 4 track (different songs) up to 25 minutes, or as many mixes as you could fit into 40 minutes
    The quoted chart rules for Germany is almost word for word the same as the UK but Germany defined singles of this size as Maxi and the UK simply as Single. Which starts to cause issues when the same disc is released in both territories (or more, with further varying chart / single definition rules). e.g. Italy, which I believe doesn't use the term "Single" at all, or at least didn't when this was released. Netherlands have similar format definitions to Germany.

    This changed for the UK in 1998 to up to 3 tracks and 20 minutes. The UK has never had a separate "Maxi" single chart, or even a definition of it until digital age (c.2003/2006), when a "Standard" format single was officially introduced by definition alongside maxi. This was much in line with the 90s German definitions above (including the 2-track Single,3 or more-track Maxi). UK moved to this format to combat falling CD single sales just before the eligibility of downloads (and later, streaming). Even then it is still not sold to consumers as this format, but only industry definition for chart eligibility. Even now, these "Maxi" formats still qualify for the "Singles" charts, as do various combinations of streams and videos (considered "Standard" format (under 2-tracks) singles).
  • djcarbines about 1 year ago

    Fauni-Gena
    On Discogs both are marketing terms and only marketing terms. Length, number of tracks, and other physical attributes are irrelevant.


    This incorrect. For chart eligibility (and therefore, compliance with guideline 6.10.c), these "marketing terms" have official definitions. However, they do change over time by territory and chart rules. For example, in the physical era, a UK single was either: 4 track (different songs) up to 25 minutes, or as many mixes as you could fit into 40 minutes
    The quoted chart rules for Germany is almost word for word the same as the UK but Germany defined singles of this size as Maxi and the UK simply as Single. Which starts to cause issues when the same disc is released in both territories (or more, with further varying chart / single definition rules). e.g. Italy, which I believe doesn't use the term "Single" at all, or at least didn't when this was released. Netherlands have similar format definitions to Germany.

    This changed for the UK in 1998 to up to 3 tracks and 20 minutes. The UK has never had a separate "Maxi" single chart, or even a definition of it until digital age (c.2003/2006), when a "Standard" format single was officially introduced by definition alongside maxi. This was much in line with the 90s German definitions above (including the 2-track Single,3 or more-track Maxi). UK moved to this format to combat falling CD single sales just before the eligibility of downloads (and later, streaming). Even then it is still not sold to consumers as this format, but only industry definition for chart eligibility. Even now, these "Maxi" formats still qualify for the "Singles" charts, as do various combinations of streams and videos (considered "Standard" format (under 2-tracks) singles).
  • Fauni-Gena about 1 year ago

    djcarbines
    This incorrect. For chart eligibility (and therefore, compliance with guideline 6.10.c), these "marketing terms" have official definitions.

    None of which is relevant to using the tags on Discogs. What you have to do is show that the release charted. What that definition is doesn't matter one little bit.
  • djcarbines about 1 year ago

    djcarbines edited about 1 year ago
    Fauni-Gena
    What that definition is doesn't matter one little bit.


    It does! Without complying with the chart regs, it CAN'T chart. Even if it sells enough to be #1. If the label deliberately comply with chart formats with the aim of it hitting the chart, it's also eligible for the tag (RSG 6.10 B and D), whether it hits or not. Of course being a hit makes the tag easier to cite than those that don't as it would only require looking at the https://www.officialcharts.com or it's printed predecessors. If it happens to coincidentally comply without deliberate intention, then the tag is not valid for that release.

    This is not regarding the more unusual aspects such as LPs hitting the singles chart before the Album chart was invented or Iron Maiden 12" singles hitting the album chart because they are too long for the standard singles chart but declared a single by the label.
  • Fauni-Gena about 1 year ago

    djcarbines
    declared a single by the label.

    That's a single on Discogs provided you can provide a source.
    djcarbines
    It does! Without complying with the chart regs, it CAN'T chart.

    So? That's only one way to get a tag on Discogs. Those rules vary by time and country and citing them is NOT sufficient to apply a tag per RSG 6.10. This has been discussed many times before. You need to show that the specific release was marketed as (tag) or charted as (tag). Charting is the least common way of identifying how to tag a release. The artist or label websites are generally easier.
  • djcarbines about 1 year ago

    Fauni-Gena
    Charting is the least common way of identifying how to tag a release


    Absolutely. Even the major labels over a period of decades have no more than 1-in-6 chart hits for each release (aimed at being the tag). That's before you get to variations and re-issues! In the 90s, it was common for 150 singles and 300 albums released every week (and only 75 chart placings for each format). Although as this was reported in Music Week, those 450 weekly releases (and their associated additional formats) are easily provable that they too are eligible for the relevant tag (Music industry, trade magazine RSG 6.10.d), provided you can view a back issue.

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