• U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    Greetings to everyone in the Discogs community. I am starting this Thread with the hopes that Staff will pin it to the top of the page so that those who come later will be able to access it easily.

    I want to address the releases known as Transcriptions, along with the tag by the same name, it's usage, where to find them on the site, and the questions and concerns that have arisen surrounding the tag and the releases themselves. There have been a few Threads regarding these releases, and it is my goal to consolidate much of what has already been said in those Threads into a sort of "one-stop-shop" going forward where people can find all of the information they need.

    So lets get started.

    First of all, a little background on Transcription releases. As I pointed out to another user recently in the History Notes of one of their subs, the word "transcription" has several meanings. Here are just a few from a recent Google search:

    A recording (as on magnetic tape) made especially for use in radio broadcasting.
    A written or printed representation of something.
    The action or process of transcribing something.
    The process by which the information in a strand of DNA is copied into a new molecule of messenger RNA (mRNA).


    But in terms of this database, the first definition is the one we use here. This title and the tag of the same name apply to releases which were licensed to radio stations for public broadcast and which were not sold to the general public. They consisted of recordings which contain a radio program as it aired, or a pre-recorded program, which were sent to radio stations for later broadcast. Content often included artist interviews, live concert recordings, studio album tracks, commercials, PSAs, and spoken segments or introductions by a host. They generally included a Cue Sheet, which showed a detailed list of the exact contents of the release, to include start times and segment breaks, airplay schedules and information about the parent label company, and were useful to the disc jockey during the broadcast. These releases were distributed to radio stations solely for the purpose of airplay or broadcast, and again, were not for sale to the general public. Radio stations had to subscribed to a transcription service in order to be allowed to receive and air these shows, and such a service came at a price. These shows were not free. Many, but not all, of these releases were intended to be returned or destroyed after their one-time use. Given that these releases were not intended to fall into the hands of the general public, there remain a limited quantity of these releases out in the world.

    When I joined the site several years ago, there were not that many Transcription releases in the Database. In fact, none of what I had in my collection (primarily Genesis and Phil Collins related) were represented here. So I added them. At that time, members including myself were tagging these releases as Unofficial or Partially Unofficial, since they were not technically "albums" released by the artist in question. At some point, a decision was made to remove that tag. Diognes_The_Fox explained it thusly:

    "Until the transcription tag was added, they were tagged Partially Unofficial. Since the tag has been added, the releases should no longer be tagged partially unofficial."

    So what happens when a member adds one of these releases to the Database now? Well, if tagged properly (meaning the use of the Transcription tag and not Unofficial or Partially Unofficial, which is the current policy) these releases will almost always appear on the main artist's Album section. This has caused much consternation among many members. (I am not taking sides in this argument, I am simply illuminating an issue which has arisen about Transcription releases, but more on that in a moment.) These members do not believe that these releases should appear where they do. Many feel that Transcription releases should be listed in the Miscellaneous section, and one member as recently as today suggested that they have their own Section. (I personally would love to see that be the case at some point.)

    The official stance on this issue is as follows, again posted by Diognes_The_Fox:

    "Due to how deeply embedded the logic for artist page sorting is, it will require a complete renovation of the artist page. As getting the tracks project more efficient and filled out is the top priority at the moment, there is not a set date for that project."

    The easiest way to remember all of that is this: If it's a radio show, either on vinyl, compact disc or reel-to-reel tape, it needs to be tagged as a Transcription release for Discogs purposes. Whether you agree or disagree that Transcription releases should appear in the main artist's Album section, they do for now and Staff is aware that some here don't like it!

    Moving on...

    Now I would like to (briefly) address the issue of whether these releases are to be considered Promos. This was an unfortunate sticking point in an earlier Thread, during which attempts by several well intentioned members here (myself included) were made to have a new Guideline instituted dealing specifically with Transcription releases. These attempts were maliciously derailed by one member (who I truly hope stays off this Thread) who insisted that the Transcription tag and the Promo tag MUST go hand-in-hand. There were arguments for and against the use of the Promo tag. For example:

    rikroc pointed out:

    "I don't think the promotional tag applies to transcription releases regardless of the wording on the package. Promotional records were giveaways to promote a given release. Transcription services charged for their content. They are completely different animals. Promo = Free, Transcription = $$"

    Whereas leeving argued that:

    "A release that is "Not For Sale" or has any other print that says the release is for promotional purposes should then have the Promo tag. Does having both tags really hurt the submissions? What is the drawback of having both in the format if the labeling for Promo is on the release?"

    I'll simply sum up the outcome of that never ending argument thusly: Staff has stated that the Promo tag CAN be used in conjunction with the Transcription tag, but nowhere does it state that members MUST use said tag. (By the way, if that member who derailed our previous attempts to obtain a Guideline change does show up here, I intend to ignore their taunts as much as possible. This Thread is not about arguing the merits of Transcription releases or any related tags.)

    So where can members find these rare and interesting releases? Well, one of the things I did after I added what I had in my collection was to work on updating as many Transcription releases as I could find to ensure that they contained the Transcription tag. While doing so, I discovered that these releases are more vast than I had anticipated. So here is a list of what I've found so far. My goal is to continue to add to this list as this Thread expands. If you take the time to look deeply into the releases inside the following labels, you will find that I have touched a great number of them in some way, either by adding the Transcription tag, removing the Unofficial or Partially Unofficial tag, adding images and other missing data, or simply posting a comment attempting to answer a question in the History Notes.

    TRANSCRIPTION RELEASES MASTER LIST

    1. Westwood One (Probably the largest label where Transcription releases can be found...)
    2. Westwood One Radio Network
    3. Off The Record Special
    4. CMT's Country Countdown USA
    5. Nothing Sacred
    6. The Vault (15)
    7. Westwood One Radio Networks High Voltage
    8. Westwood One Radio Networks On The Edge
    9. Budweiser Concert Hour
    10. London Wavelength
    11. TBS Syndications
    12. BBC Radio International
    13. BBC World Service
    14. BBC Transcription
    15. BBC In Concert
    16. BBC Rock Hour
    17. DIR Radio Network
    18. DIR Broadcasting
    19. King Biscuit Flower Hour
    20. Barnett-Robbins Enterprises
    21. Global Satellite Network
    22. CBS Radio
    23. United Stations Programming Network
    24. The United Stations
    25. The British Invasion Series
    26. Rick Dees Weekly Top 40
    27. Innerview
    28. Austereo MCM
    29. In The Studio
    30. Télémédia Communications
    31. Unistar Radio Programming
    32. The Weekly Specials
    33. Hot Rocks (3)
    34. NBC Radio
    35. The Source (8)
    36. Budweiser
    37. Earth News Radio Show
    38. Special Edition With Sid McCoy
    39. Superstar Concert Series
    40. Radio Canada International
    41. Transcription
    42. Rock Over London
    43. American Top 40
    44. Watermark
    45. ABC Contemporary Radio Network
    46. ABC Watermark
    47. Afrts
    48. American Forces Radio And Television Service
    49. Armed Forces Radio And Television Service
    50. Armed Forces Radio Service
    51. Armed Forces Radio & Television Service Station Library
    52. Armed Forces Radio Service
    53. Armed Forces Radio & Television Service Radio Priority
    54. ORF Arbeitsplatte
    55. Spotlight Specials
    56. Soundtrack Of The 60s
    57. American Country Countdown
    58. The United States Marine Corps Reserve
    59. United States Department Of Defense
    60. War Department
    61. One Night Stand
    62. War Department Special Service Division
    63. Citadel Media
    64. National Broadcasting Company, Inc.
    65. All Aboard For Adventure
    66. CBC Radio Canada
    67. Expo '67 Transcription Series
    68. CBC International Service
    69. CBC Radio Canada Broadcast Recording
    70. Off The Record Classic
    71. BBC Classic Tracks
    72. What's It All About?
    73. TRAV
    74. TRAV (4)
    75. BBC Serviço Brasileiro

    I am sure there are and will be more Transcription release labels to be added to this list, and as members notify me of them, I'll add them here. I'll also use the list to periodically check if members are adding new release without the Transcription tag (presumably because they still don't know to do so) and if I find any, I'll add it and reference this Thread. I encourage others to do the same.

    Lastly (for now) I want to circle back to the issue of how these releases show up in the main artist's Album section. As I stated, many here don't like it. I don't much mind it, but I do have a suggestion that might work, at least for some of these shows. For the releases which contain previously released album tracks, like those found on the Off The Record Special shows, perhaps users could utilize the Compilation tag for these types of shows only as it would allow those shows to move over to the Compilation section. This tag would not apply to shows which contained live concert material, such as the ones on the Superstar Concert Series shows, since those tracks are not currently available anywhere else. Just a suggestion. But I do like the idea of Transcription releases having their own section, if feasible.

    I have a lot more to add to this Thread, but I'll jump off here and let others add their thoughts. I encourage members to utilize this Thread as a place to discuss Transcription releases, ask questions and post suggestions. I will humbly plead that we NOT turn this Thread into a never ending cul-de-sac of arguing about said releases. They are here to stay, whether you like them or not, and I'd like to be able to someday see them grow into something that everyone can appreciate the way I do.
  • leeving over 2 years ago

    leeving edited over 2 years ago
    U2Streets
    I'll simply sum up the outcome of that never ending argument thusly: Staff has stated that the Promo tag CAN be used in conjunction with the Transcription tag, but nowhere does it state that members MUST use said tag. (By the way, if that member who derailed our previous attempts to obtain a Guideline change does show up here, I intend to ignore their taunts as much as possible. This Thread is not about arguing the merits of Transcription releases or any related tags.)


    I agree with this, it's not mandatory, but once added it shouldn't be removed because it is valid data.

    I hope this thread is better than the last, but I really have no dog in this fight.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    .
    leeving
    ... once added it shouldn't be removed because it is valid data.


    Nor has it been since that discussion occurred. By the way, I quoted you, leeving, because you provided the most succinct argument for its usage. And rikroc provided the most succinct argument against it. Hopefully that will be the last word on the Promo tag.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    JT_X
    Some more labels for your list...


    Many, many thanks my friend! I have added those to the list in the first post. This is exactly one of the things that I was hoping this Thread would accomplish. Thanks again and keep 'em coming!
  • JT_X over 2 years ago

    It looks like were editing our messages simultaneously, but I think I've finished now. :)
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    We were, but I'm keeping track of what you add! Thanks again. Not sure how I missed Afrts on my original list, as I've edited and even added some releases under that label.

    So for those who come to this Thread later, the way that JT_X just did that is perfect. If you find a label with Transcription releases which is not currently on my list in the first post, simply add a comment to this Thread with a link to the label. I will receive an email notifying me of a reply on the Thread, and I'll add those links to the "Master List".

    I'd also like to suggest that for those (like me) who make future edits to Transcription releases (for example, adding the Transcription tag like I just did yesterday to numerous releases which did not have the tag) please link back to this Thread in the History Notes when you perform your edit. Since I would like this to be the "Ultimate Guide" to said releases, then this Thread should be able to answer any questions as to why such an edit was done.
  • Farjenk over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    an earlier Thread


    You must mean this one.

    Forum Thread #774830
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    I do indeed. And I hope this one does not devolve the way that one did. Provided someone (not you) doesn’t try to disrupt what I’m trying to do here, all will be well. So far so good. As I said, I’m hoping to consolidate all of the other Threads, including that one.
  • JT_X over 2 years ago

    All transcription discs should be visible with this search: https://www.discogs.com/search/?format_exact=Transcription
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Whether you agree or disagree that Transcription releases should appear in the main artist's Album section, they do for now and Staff is aware that you don't like it!

    That doesn't even make any sense. If we agree that Transcription releases should appear in the Album section, Staff is aware we don't like it that they are in the album section? Huh?

    U2Streets
    But I do like the idea of Transcription releases having their own section, if feasible.

    Here's (what seems to me to be) a decent reason for leaving them in the album section. Sometimes radio shows get official releases to the public. Shouldn't the official releases be in the same master? Is there any advantage to splitting the master members between sections?
    Consider:
    Stevie Ray Vaughan And Double Trouble* - A Legend In The Making vs. Stevie Ray Vaughan And Double Trouble* - A Legend In The Making
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 2 years ago

    Oooh, my favorite problem tag. Excellent work here!

    U2Streets
    At some point, a decision was made to remove that tag.


    This was for a couple of reasons.
    A) Generally as a database-wide thing, altering the data to deal with limitations of the software is a no-no.
    B) They are not unofficial. They are legally licensed and we don't want to get those mixed up.

    U2Streets
    Staff is aware that you don't like it!


    Me either. I collect these dumb things too. ;)

    U2Streets
    I'll simply sum up the outcome of that never ending argument thusly: Staff has stated that the Promo tag CAN be used in conjunction with the Transcription tag, but nowhere does it state that members MUST use said tag.


    Transcription and Promo are two independent tags and is much the same as my opinion on Unofficial + Promo. My argument has been that if the release independently meets the tag qualifications of RSG §6.12.2 it can be added. On the whole though, there shouldn't be an automatic assumption that all transcription releases are promo. Some /may/ be promo, depending on the nature of the release.
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Staff will pin it to the top of the page so that those who come later will be able to access it easily.


    I got asked to reduce pinned thread bloat. I am thinking of making a new thread to act as a list to other important threads/resources and pin that instead. Any objections?
  • velove over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    bloat. I am thinking of making a new thread to act as a list to other important threads/resources and pin that instead. Any objections?


    Good idea
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    Diognes_The_Fox: I got asked to reduce pinned thread bloat. I am thinking of making a new thread to act as a list to other important threads/resources and pin that instead. Any objections?


    +1

    ThomasP64
    ... If we agree that Transcription releases should appear in the Album section, Staff is aware we don't like it that they are in the album section? Huh?


    I simply meant that Staff is aware that some members don’t like that they show up in the Album section. For those that don’t like that fact, it is what it is. I have since edited the post to now read: "Staff is aware that some here don't like it."

    And by the way, it looks to me like Stevie Ray Vaughan And Double Trouble* - A Legend In The Making needs to have the Transcription tag added!
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    If we agree that Transcription releases should appear in the Album section, Staff is aware we don't like it that they are in the album section? Huh?


    Because if they stayed tagged as partially unofficial, there's a good chance they might be getting accidentally reported & blocked as bootlegs. Given that, it's really best to keep as far away from using that as possible.

    The way sorting works is also really deeply embedded in such a way that fixing it would involve needing to replace a lot of the related code that functions with it, which pretty much expands into needing to rebuild the entire artist page, which would be a multi-quarter project to build and additional effort to de-bug, user research, ironing out use cases, and other aspects, which involves many different people of different skill sets, ballooning the project out into extremely expensive project territories.

    Will it get done? Eventually. It's just going to very likely happen at a point when such a huge undertaking is going to be warranted for reasons beyond fixing sorting for a handful of format tags. In the meantime, if there is some solution here for those that can be implemented without requiring that level of involvement, I will enthusiastically pitch it. As I add format types, it's my mess, so I'm dedicated to making it better.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    ...there shouldn't be an automatic assumption that all transcription releases are promo. Some /may/ be promo, depending on the nature of the release.


    THAT should be the last word on the Promo tag topic. Thank you for that, Sir.

    Diognes_The_Fox
    The way sorting works is also really deeply embedded in such a way that fixing it would involve needing to replace a lot of the related code that functions with it, which pretty much expands into needing to rebuild the entire artist page, which would be a multi-quarter project to build and additional effort to de-bug, user research, ironing out use cases, and other aspects, which involves many different people of different skill sets, ballooning the project out into extremely expensive project territories.

    Will it get done? Eventually. It's just going to very likely happen at a point when such a huge undertaking is going to be warranted for reasons beyond fixing sorting for a handful of format tags. In the meantime, if there is some solution here for those that can be implemented without requiring that level of involvement, I will enthusiastically pitch it. As I add format types, it's my mess, so I'm dedicated to making it better.


    And THAT should be the last word on the Album sorting issue. Thank you for saying that as well Sir. Now when people complain to me about where these releases show up (and believe me they've been making a fuss almost every time I add the Transcription tag to some sub) I can point them here and that will end it. Another reason I started this Thread to begin with, and another goal checked off the list!
  • PabloPlato over 2 years ago

    bring back the Miscellaneous section/tag.
    transcription records can go in there.
    and maybe all those live albums recording the show you attended and bought it from.
  • fax001 over 2 years ago

    I can’t believe is that complicated that transcription / sampler tags = automatically goes to misc section.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    JT_X
    All transcription discs should be visible with this search: https://www.discogs.com/search/?format_exact=Transcription


    Thank you for sorting them like that. The only issue I see with that would be that it doesn't capture those releases which don't currently have the Transcription tag assigned to them but need to. For example, the numerous subs on the label pages #s 44 - 46 on my "master list" above. I'm assuming that as I or others here add that tag to those subs, they will begin to show up on your linked search as well.

    And that brings up another point I wanted to mention at some point in this Thread. I don't think many members here are aware of just how much work I have put into sorting these releases out by adding the Transcription tag. I have literally spent hours a day at times, for several days and weeks, going through the above listed label pages and adding the Transcription tag to the releases in order to bring them in line in an organized fashion. While working through those subs which needed updating, I found a lot of times people would do one of the following things:

    1. They would tag these shows as Unofficial or Partially Unofficial. This was and is the most common mistake, but it was often done intentionally to force the sub out of the Album section. And sometimes when I would remove the incorrect tag and add the Transcription tag, the OS would come behind me and re-add the Unofficial or Partially Unofficial tag back to the sub because they refused to allow their sub to show up in the Album section.

    2. They would add a free-form tag to the Format section which had some variation on the "For Radio Broadcast Only" theme. Many times members were adding this in the free-form slot because they were unaware that Transcription releases ARE radio shows.

    3. They would mark a double LP which only contained music on three sides as 2 x Vinyl instead of 1 x Vinyl, Transcription & 1 x Vinyl, Single Sided, Transcription. This is a common mistake often associated with King Biscuit Flower Hour radio shows, as they were notorious for having two LPs which contained only three sides of tunes. I myself made this mistake a few times on some King Biscuit shows until I began to understand the difference.

    4. They would not add any information on the actual track listing for their release, choosing instead to write "Unknown" or "Segment 1, 2, 3" etc. This is one that I can't help with if I don't have the actual release in my collection, because even when the OS has added a scan of the Cue Sheet, those sheets don't always depict which track appears on which side, except of course the first track. But after A1 (or 1-1 on a CD) other users have no idea how the tracks divide up or where the split.

    Those are some of the most common (and frustrating) mistakes that I've encountered in Transcription releases. I wanted to list them here because I've devoted a lot of time to correcting them, and I see them continuing to occur on a regular basis. Doing said corrections generated a lot of questions, which pushed me in the direction of creating this Thread. My hope is that other members here will begin to reference this Thread when adding the tag to pre-existing subs, so that any questions they receive regarding same will be readily answered.

    As I said, I've spent hours, days and weeks working on this whole topic (and I don't mind doing so) in order to accurately represent Transcription releases in the Database. They are a big part of my vinyl collection, and a big part of my life as a former radio station manager and on-air DJ. I understand that many members do not realize that the tag exists, even after all this time. That is probably why I am still finding new subs almost everyday which are radio shows that should have the tag but don't. Which was why I had hoped previously that a Guideline could be set up to deal with these unique releases. Perhaps in time this will come to fruition. But for now, I'll keep adding in when I see a sub that needs it. I'd like to ask for help on this. I have noticed that a few other members have taken up this task on their own, and I want to thank them for that. Again, hopefully those users who do add the tag will begin to reference this Thread.

    But for members coming to this Thread through a link in an edit to one of their subs, here's a reminder of why the edit was probably made:

    If it's a radio show, either on vinyl, compact disc or reel-to-reel tape, it needs to be tagged as a Transcription release for Discogs purposes.

    If someone has added the Transcription tag to your sub, it probably needed to be there in the first place. If you've made one of the above listed mistakes in your sub, don't be offended that someone else fixed it for you. It's better than receiving a Needs Minor Changes vote.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    ... In the meantime, if there is some solution here for those that can be implemented without requiring that level of involvement, I will enthusiastically pitch it.


    What about my previous suggestion of using the Compilation tag for at least some of these releases? Specifically those types of shows which contain previously released album tracks, such as the shows found under the Off The Record Special label. These are interview shows where album tracks are mixed with conversations with the artist in question. Those album tracks are found on the release being discussed, so that sort of makes them Compilations in my opinion. When I mentioned this in another Thread, pierreoitmann pointed out:

    "... some transcription discs that could be regarded as compilations, from the perspective of the song material, do often have additional interview material that's not found elsewhere. So then the compilation tag becomes less accurate to apply. Especially if its released ahead of an album where it contains material from."

    While this is a very valid point, my response was to state that I would suggest that the Compilation tag could be used in conjunction with the Interview tag in those cases. This would allow those shows to move over to the Compilation section, and thus remove them from the Album section. Problem solved, at least for those types of shows. The Compilation tag would not apply to shows which contained live concert material, however, such as the ones on the Superstar Concert Series shows, since those tracks are not currently available anywhere else.

    That's one suggestion and a good starting point, and honestly it's the only suggestion I've seen on this issue short of going back to the Unofficial tag, which is not an option. Diognes_The_Fox, I'm interested in your thoughts, and those of others here as well.
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    So here is a list of what I've found so far.


    Here is another one that went under our radar so far (presumably because all info on it is in German):

    ORF Arbeitsplatte

    Need a mass edit to Transcription for this one.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    3. They would mark a double LP which only contained music on three sides as 2 x Vinyl instead of 1 x Vinyl, Transcription & 1 x Vinyl, Single Sided, Transcription.

    I think the correct format would be:
    1 x Vinyl,
    1 x Vinyl, Single Sided,
    All media, Transcription
    U2Streets
    If someone has added the Transcription tag to your sub, it probably needed to be there in the first place...It's better than receiving a Needs Minor Changes vote.

    Particularly since I don't believe the Guidelines make Transcription mandatory.
    fax001
    I can’t believe is that complicated that transcription / sampler tags = automatically goes to misc section.

    Let's not forget that some transcription recordings may belong in the album section. Detective - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording for radio broadcast, i.e., a transcription, but it is identified as an album in the notes. So, it should not be moved to a miscellaneous section, unless Discogs is going to define an album to exclude transcriptions. Since they have never actually bothered to define an album independently of an outside source, this is probably unlikely.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    no_noise_reduction I've added your contribution to the master list. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. And you are correct that a mass edit will be in order to add the Transcription tag to the releases listed there. I'll get to it eventually, unless someone like yourself beats me to the punch. I am going to go through the ones that need the Transcription tag in order of the list, starting with those under Label #44.

    ThomasP64
    ... Particularly since I don't believe the Guidelines make Transcription mandatory.


    Agreed. But I think it should be mandatory. That was part of my reasoning for the proposed Guideline change.

    ThomasP64
    ... Let's not forget that some transcription recordings may belong in the album section.


    I agree with that as well. While the vast majority of Transcription releases do not fit with the Album tag, some do. I am purposefully not posting my opinion on whether I think these shows should show up in the Album section or not because my opinion is not relevant to the goal of this Thread. I encourage others here to voice their opinions on the subject, however, Diognes_The_Fox has already stated that changing it is not in the cards for now, unless we can find an alternative that the majority of us AND Staff can agree on. The more I think about my "compilation tag" idea - at least for those interview shows - the more I think that is a fine workable solution. Of course, if we get an agreement on that, it will take a lot of work in yet another mass edit to bring them all into line. But we can burn that bridge when we come to it.
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    Let's not forget that some transcription recordings may belong in the album section. Detective - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording for radio broadcast


    I'm not so sure about this. Have a look at Live From The Atlantic Studios. The Detective album is the only one tagged Transcription. AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios has - as far as I can say - never been regarded as anything else than a promo LP by fans and collectors. Also, it doesn't have any of the typical "for radio use only", "return after broadcast" etc. remarks printed anywhere.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    The back cover does state: ... recorded live at the Atlantic Recording Studios specifically for radio broadcast by future Superstars of Atlantic Records. I think that qualifies it for the Transcription tag.
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    The back cover does state: ... recorded live at the Atlantic Recording Studios specifically for radio broadcast by future Superstars of Atlantic Records. I think that qualifies it for the Transcription tag.


    Wow, I admit I was wrong. Didn't see that. Guess that makes the other two "Live From..." releases Transcriptions also...
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    no_noise_reduction
    Wow, I admit I was wrong. Didn't see that. Guess that makes the other two "Live From..." releases Transcriptions also...


    I had to squint to see it! And I've edited all of the shows under the Live From The Atlantic Studios label - there were only three that needed the tag added - and I added the label itself to my Master List. I'm glad you asked the question because it brought yet another label to my attention.

    By the way, I'm off today so during breaks between my drum practice for my upcoming gig, I worked on adding the Transcription tag to all of the shows under Label #s 44 - 46 on my Master List. (I've taken to calling it that now as it seems like a good place to list all of the related releases.) Those are now done. I'll work on the others soon...
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64 edited over 2 years ago
    U2Streets
    Agreed. But I think it should be mandatory. That was part of my reasoning for the proposed Guideline change.

    The learning curve is already hard enough for newcomers without adding additional requirements. Promo isn't mandatory, Jukebox isn't mandatory, why should Transcription be mandatory?
    no_noise_reduction
    Have a look at Live From The Atlantic Studios. The Detective album is the only one tagged Transcription. AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios has - as far as I can say - never been regarded as anything else than a promo LP by fans and collectors.
    Each of them has opening announcements regarding the live concert. The AC/DC actually announces it is part of a series of live radio concerts. Even in the absence of text (which is present on at least some entries), the announcements alone should qualify for transcription status.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    The learning curve is already hard enough for newcomers without adding additional requirements. Promo isn't mandatory, Jukebox isn't mandatory, why should Transcription be mandatory?


    Because all radio broadcast shows are Transcription releases here on Discogs by definition. If the tag was mandatory, there would be much less confusion as to why this tag is suddenly and massively being added to so many releases. Again, that is a point for the Guideline change discussion, which has not necessarily been re-opened. (Though I'd like it to be, provided someone - not you - doesn't make it their mission to derail it once again.)

    ThomasP64
    Each of them has opening announcements regarding the live concert. The AC/DC actually announces it is part of a series of live radio concerts. Even in the absence of text (which is present on at least some entries), the announcements alone should qualify for transcription status.


    I completely agree, and would recommend that such information should be listed in the Notes section since you obtained it from the recording itself, which not everyone has access to.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    I need some input on this release: Various - MUSICAL!. It's found on the Watermark label page; almost all of which are Transcription releases. But I can't be sure on this one without more info from the OS. Seeing as how it's been dormant for three years, I don't foresee obtaining the needed info...
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    Even in the absence of text (which is present on at least some entries), the announcements alone should qualify for transcription status.


    I agree. I could have noted that because I know the sound recording of this one, even though only from a reissue. My fault, these seem to be transcriptions.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    I completely agree, and would recommend that such information should be listed in the Notes section since you obtained it from the recording itself, which not everyone has access to.

    Also, the announcements are written in the tracklisting, visible in the images.
    U2Streets
    If the tag was mandatory, there would be much less confusion as to why this tag is suddenly and massively being added to so many releases.
    If you make it mandatory, a lot of people who did nothing wrong may suddenly be subject to negative votes. Just add the tag where appropriate, and cite https://www.discogs.com/help/formatslist
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    Just add the tag where appropriate, and cite https://www.discogs.com/help/formatslist


    Good call. I'm also pointing folks to this Thread when I add the tag. Speaking of which, it now appears that this one is being questioned: AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios. Read the History Notes for some disruption by our old friend...
  • mossinterest over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    On the whole though, there shouldn't be an automatic assumption that all transcription releases are promo. Some /may/ be promo, depending on the nature of the release

    AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios is NOT a transcription of a live radio show. It (as well as several others in the series) was recorded at Atlantic Studios to be rebroadcast on radio stations as a PROMO. They were NOT recorded live during a radio broadcast at a station, but recorded and sent to radio stations for special broadcast. So, now we're saying anything taped and mastered for promotional purposes to radio stations are "Transcriptions" ? That doesn't even fit the definition of the word.
  • mossinterest over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios. Read the History Notes for some disruption by our old friend...


    So you wanna get rude again because somebody has another opinion? PAR!!!
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    mossinterest
    AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios is NOT a transcription of a live radio show. It (as well as several others in the series) was recorded at Atlantic Studios to be rebroadcast on radio stations as a PROMO. They were NOT recorded live during a radio broadcast at a station, but recorded and sent to radio stations for special broadcast. So, now we're saying anything taped and mastered for promotional purposes to radio stations are "Transcriptions" ? That doesn't even fit the definition of the word.


    That's EXACTLY what we're saying. The section of your quote that I put in bold text is part of the definition of the Transcription tag. That's why I (politely) asked you and the other user to read the linked Thread. And again, please don't talk to anyone on this site about rudeness. Your opinion was not disruptive, your approach and threats of reverting the edit were. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your posts in this Thread civil. I can't help what you put in the History Notes, but your reputation precedes you. Your question has been answered now, so I hope you'll leave the edit as it stands. Thank you.
  • fax001 over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64

    Let's not forget that some transcription recordings may belong in the album section. Detective - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording for radio broadcast, i.e., a transcription, but it is identified as an album in the notes. So, it should not be moved to a miscellaneous section, unless Discogs is going to define an album to exclude transcriptions. Since they have never actually bothered to define an album independently of an outside source, this is probably unlikely.


    then those releases should be tagged as album too and goes to album, i think its really easy. I was talking about the vast majority where those releases are just tagged like that, the way a promo with no other tag should go to misc as well, but noo because 1 hour interviews are albums in discogs, really “complicated”.
  • 7jlong over 2 years ago

    7jlong edited over 2 years ago
    mossinterest
    They were NOT recorded live during a radio broadcast at a station, but recorded and sent to radio stations for special broadcast.

    It was my understanding that Transcription recordings covered not only recordings of a radio show, but recordings made specifically for broadcast via a radio show. I’m no expert and own none of these, but is that not the definition we’re going by here? And - this is a serious question, not a combative one - who or what do we consider the authority for a final decision either way, since the debate is obviously a bit contentious?
    The above was based on what I was seeing at the time. I have many, many reasons to doubt this conclusion now.
  • mossinterest over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    That's EXACTLY what we're saying.


    No, it's not. Something lost in translation?

    U2Streets
    I'd appreciate it if you'd keep your posts in this Thread civil.

    Pot, Kettle? Classic! You make a hollow comment then proceed to insult again! I get it. ONLY your opinion counts.

    U2Streets
    Your question has been answered now, so I hope you'll leave the edit as it stands.

    I have no question. I have objection to tagging a recording from a studio to be sent to radio stations as a transcription of a radio show.

    U2Streets
    so I hope you'll leave the edit as it stands

    Oh you bet. It's not that important to keep going around and around with arrogance. Pot/Kettle...I've learned something. File away your SRs you keep filing because somebody disagrees with you. But, your insults are lame and hollow results of pouting.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    7jlong
    It was my understanding that Transcription recordings covered not only recordings of a radio show, but recordings made specifically for broadcast via a radio show. I’m no expert and own none of these, but is that not the definition we’re going by here? And - this is a serious question, not a combative one - who or what do we consider the authority for a final decision either way, since the debate is obviously a bit contentious?


    You are 100% correct in your understanding on the definition of the tag. And I would consider Staff as having the final say, and they have done so repeatedly in this Thread and others. Good question though, and not at all misinterpreted as combative.

    mossinterest
    I have no question. I have objection to tagging a recording from a studio to be sent to radio stations as a transcription of a radio show.


    Which shows that it is you that does not have an understanding of the Transcription tag. But that's okay, that's why this Thread exists. The tag covers both shows that aired and shows which were sent to radio stations for later broadcast, as stated at the top of this Thread. I hope we've cleared that up for you now. As to the rest of your comments... I can't help you with any of that. Have a nice day and do come back if you need more help with Transcription releases in the future! We have all the information you need right here in this Thread.
  • mossinterest over 2 years ago

    7jlong
    Transcription

    noun, derived from the verb...transcribe. The written or printed representation. The AC?DC recorded at Atlantic Studios was not a transcription of a certain radio show or interview. It was sent to be used as an instrument on radio shows. Not exactly the same as another user has demanded.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    mossinterest
    noun, derived from the verb...transcribe. The written or printed representation.


    I'm actually glad you mentioned that just now. I've been meaning to address the use of the word Transcription for some time. As I pointed out to another user recently in the History Notes of one of their subs, the word "transcription" has several meanings. Here are just a few from a recent Google search:

    A recording (as on magnetic tape) made especially for use in radio broadcasting.
    A written or printed representation of something.
    The action or process of transcribing something.
    The process by which the information in a strand of DNA is copied into a new molecule of messenger RNA (mRNA).


    But in terms of this database, the first definition is the one we use here. I am not the one who initiated the use of said tag, that was done by Staff. And they had in mind the idea of the first definition when they did. Does that make it clearer now? Surely you can understand that a word with so many diverse meanings can be applied in many places? We absolutely wouldn't quote the DNA / RNA definition to make a point here, so why only quote the "written or printed representation" definition as the only valid one?

    I am actually going to add those definitions to my initial post here to avoid future confusion. So I guess I own you a big THANK YOU for helping this along.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    mossinterest
    I have objection to tagging a recording from a studio to be sent to radio stations as a transcription of a radio show.

    The Discogs definition of Transcription is: "This tag is for releases licensed to radio stations for public broadcast which were not sold to the general public." Transcription is not defined as a transcription of a radio show; it is something provided to radio stations for broadcast.
    https://blog.discogs.com/en/radio-record-transcription-discs/
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    mossinterest
    You've made it very clear the word "Transcription" will be misused and misinterpreted. OK, that's all you had to say. You have a good day as well. Peace out!!!


    Glad to help. But just to clarify, it's not being misused when you consider that one definition of the word is a recording (as on magnetic tape) made especially for use in radio broadcasting. By your own words you've proven that AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording made especially for use in radio broadcasting, so the tag applies.
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    By your own words you've proven that AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording made especially for use in radio broadcasting, so the tag applies.


    This said, isn't this also an excellent example for a case when a release is both a Transcription AND a Promo? Both is explicitly being stated on the cover of the release.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    no_noise_reduction
    U2StreetsBy your own words you've proven that AC/DC - Live From The Atlantic Studios is a recording made especially for use in radio broadcasting, so the tag applies.

    This said, isn't this also an excellent example for a case when a release is both a Transcription AND a Promo? Both is explicitly being stated on the cover of the release.


    I see your point. That said, the Promo tag is already present on that sub; I didn’t remove it; and the Promo tag discussion has been settled. I have no wish to revisit it.
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    I see your point. That said, the Promo tag is already present on that sub; I didn’t remove it; and the Promo tag discussion has been settled. I have no wish to revisit it.


    Oh hm, I was just remembering that we were discussing the differences between promo and transcription releases in an earlier thread and that we agreed that in some instances releases can be both.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    no_noise_reduction
    Oh hm, I was just remembering that we were discussing the differences between promo and transcription releases in an earlier thread and that we agreed that in some instances releases can be both.


    No worries. I've never had an issue with you or your posts. I was stating that in case the person whom I do not wish to converse with jumps in and tries to derail this Thread over that tag. Again. I think all that needs to be said about the Promo tag as it applies to Transcription releases has been said, and I summarized it in my first post above.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    mossinterest
    WOW.................you don't stop, do ya? That would be 'with whom'


    I am not taking about you, believe it or not. If you were the member in question, I would not have responded to any of your posts above. Please leave it be because it doesn’t involve you at all. The member I am talking about will receive no response from me whatsoever, because I will not dignify their attempts to derail my efforts this time.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Moving on and getting back on track...

    no_noise_reduction: Here is one I'd like input on: Radio Express. Transcription discs or no?
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Here is one I'd like input on: Radio Express. Transcription discs or no?


    Difficult one - they all seem to have a "For broadcast only" print but it seems they are just compilations of non-original material without any additional content (interviews, presentation, ads) whatsoever. How did we handle similar cases in the past?
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    I tend to use transcription here.
  • mossinterest over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    I am not taking about you


    OK, in that case I apologize. Certainly you can understand why I presumed.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    mossinterest
    U2StreetsI am not taking about you

    OK, in that case I apologize. Certainly you can understand why I presumed.


    I can. I am very familiar with your history here...
  • marcelrecords over 2 years ago

    The United States Marine Corps Reserve
    another label which features transcription discs
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    marcelrecords
    The United States Marine Corps Reserve
    another label which features transcription discs


    Added to the Master List now. Thank you.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    no_noise_reduction
    U2StreetsHere is one I'd like input on: Radio Express. Transcription discs or no?

    Difficult one - they all seem to have a "For broadcast only" print but it seems they are just compilations of non-original material without any additional content (interviews, presentation, ads) whatsoever. How did we handle similar cases in the past?


    I think we did not place the Transcription tag on them, for the reasons you just mentioned.

    no_noise_reduction
    I tend to use transcription here.


    These seem more like Promos to me.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    no_noise_reduction
    Here is another one that went under our radar so far (presumably because all info on it is in German):

    ORF Arbeitsplatte

    Need a mass edit to Transcription for this one.


    Since I've now finished adding the Transcription tag to all of the missing subs on all of the labels on my Master List, I was about to start on this one. But are we absolutely sure these are radio broadcast LPs? Since my German is non-existent, I don't want to rush into a mass edit and incur the wrath of other members here for doing so without showing due diligence. A quick Google translate on the phrase Unverkäufliche ORF-Arbeitsplatte, nur für Rundfunkwiedergabe (from the first entry on that page) ends up being
    Unsaleable ORF worktop, for broadcast only
    . The fact that it says broadcast does seem to indicate that we do have a Transcription element involved, but again, I'd like some more input before I run off and jam the tag into each one.

    Any thoughts or more evidence that I can use to support this mass edit? There are only fifty-five entries there, so I could bang them out rather quickly...
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Repeating my request for help with Various - MUSICAL!. Transcription or no? I'm going to "ping" the OS in the Please ping other users here regarding an issue within the database Thread an ask for input...
  • no_noise_reduction over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Any thoughts or more evidence that I can use to support this mass edit?


    I'm a native German speaker and can confirm that what you had translated means about this: "ORF in-house record. Not for sale, radio broadcast only". I admit that "Arbeitsplatte" is a really odd, if not funny term here, because in 99% of the cases it would translate "work top" (like in a kitchen). It can, though, be translated "work disc" or "disc that is a means of work" (work at the radio here).
    So it is pretty safe to assume these are transcriptions because they basically have all the characteristics transcriptions usually have - only in German.
  • steve.fletcher over 2 years ago

    Diognes_The_Fox
    Transcription and Promo are two independent tags and is much the same as my opinion on Unofficial + Promo. My argument has been that if the release independently meets the tag qualifications of RSG §6.12.2 it can be added. On the whole though, there shouldn't be an automatic assumption that all transcription releases are promo. Some /may/ be promo, depending on the nature of the release.

    +1

    There are a number of transcription radio shows, that at the time of broadcast were so popular that the label made them available for the public to buy, In either vinyl or CD versions.

    I have purchased a number of these transcription discs, and have the official advertising showing that they were made available to the public.
  • Diognes_The_Fox over 2 years ago

    steve.fletcher
    There are a number of transcription radio shows, that at the time of broadcast were so popular that the label made them available for the public to buy, In either vinyl or CD versions.

    I have purchased a number of these transcription discs, and have the official advertising showing that they were made available to the public.


    Interesting! It's definitely one of those things where I was aware there was some additional usage that I didn't normally see for US ones that was going to pop up.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    steve.fletcher
    There are a number of transcription radio shows, that at the time of broadcast were so popular that the label made them available for the public to buy, In either vinyl or CD versions.

    I have purchased a number of these transcription discs, and have the official advertising showing that they were made available to the public.


    If I am not mistaken I think you are referring to items like these:

    Phil Collins - Collins On Collins Exclusive Candid Interview
    Mike & The Mechanics - Mike On Mike Exclusive Candid Interview
    Mike & The Mechanics - Mike On Mike II - Exclusive Candid Interview
    Genesis - Tonight, Tonight, Tonight Exclusive Candid Interview
    Genesis - Invisible Touch Interview 1986

    I just this morning added the Transcription tag to all of the above except the last one. (Oddly enough, I've had all but the last one in my personal collection for years, and it didn't dawn on me to add the tag until today!) I am not sure if that last one is a Transcription release, but I think it is. (I posted a question in the History Notes, and hopefully the OS can advise.) The rest are definitely both Promos and Transcriptions, so no_noise_reduction, it looks like we have a few more perfect examples of items that are both.

    While on the subject of those specific shows, can anyone advise if there are other similar ones on the site? I can't imagine that Atlantic Records would only release five such items. If members know of other "exclusive candid interviews" that need the Transcription tag, please post them in this Thread.

    no_noise_reduction
    I'm a native German speaker and can confirm that what you had translated means about this: "ORF in-house record. Not for sale, radio broadcast only". I admit that "Arbeitsplatte" is a really odd, if not funny term here, because in 99% of the cases it would translate "work top" (like in a kitchen). It can, though, be translated "work disc" or "disc that is a means of work" (work at the radio here).
    So it is pretty safe to assume these are transcriptions because they basically have all the characteristics transcriptions usually have - only in German.


    Thank you for that update. I knew you spoke German, and I figured you'd be the one to sort that out. I've gone ahead and added the tag to the releases on that page now. All done.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    So here's an interesting question regarding the placement of some of these Transcription shows. Here are two examples of identical types of shows (In The Studio with host Redbeard radio shows) however, one appears in the Miscellaneous section, and the other appears in the Album section:

    Genesis - In The Studio: Genesis Self-Titled Album 20th Anniversary Miscellaneous section
    Genesis - In the Studio "Genesis" Album section

    Now, I am not suggesting that these shows need to be merged. (One aired in 2003 and the other aired in 1991.) What I am asking is why is one showing up in the Miscellaneous section and the other in the Album section? They are identical types of shows: both are on compact disc, both are radio Transcription releases, both contain interview segments with the band members and the host, etc. If we can figure out why the first one ended up in the Miscellaneous section, then couldn't we figure out a way to get all of them over there, or vice-versa, IF that's what people want?
  • leeving over 2 years ago

    leeving edited over 2 years ago
    U2Streets
    If we can figure out why the first one ended up in the Miscellaneous section, then couldn't we figure out a way to get all of them over there, or vice-versa, IF that's what people want?


    The timing of Genesis - In The Studio: Genesis Self-Titled Album 20th Anniversary is only seen as 2 minutes and 24 seconds....which is why it in the Miscellaneous section, since it caries no other tags.

    Removing the timings of those 2 tracks should move it to the Album section. Removing that data to get it moved to the Miscellaneous section is a whole other issue, tho.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    leeving
    The timing of Genesis - In The Studio: Genesis Self-Titled Album 20th Anniversary is only seen as 2 minutes and 24 seconds....which is why it in the Miscellaneous section, since it caries no other tags.

    Removing the timings of those 2 tracks should move it to the Album section. Removing that data to get it moved to the Miscellaneous section is a whole other issue, tho.


    Son of a b**ch! That's what it is! There are several items in the Miscellaneous section that I personally submitted which I have been trying to figure out why they ended up there. And you just solved it for me! I'm going to remove those track times so the items will move into the Album section now. (Though I've never officially stated my position on where I think these items should appear, my actions on this will give away my opinion...)

    Thanks for solving that dilemma for me.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    leeving
    Removing the timings of those 2 tracks should move it to the Album section.

    But that would be removing valid data, no?
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    But that would be removing valid data, no?


    The data is still present in the Headings which accompany the sub.
  • leeving over 2 years ago

    leeving edited over 2 years ago
    ThomasP64
    leevingRemoving the timings of those 2 tracks should move it to the Album section.
    But that would be removing valid data, no?


    yes...that's why I edited in -
    leeving
    Removing that data to get it moved to the Miscellaneous section is a whole other issue, tho.


    But since I don't have the release or can really tell where those timings came from I would have to trust the user making the edits and that they are done in good faith, or more discussion could be needed to see if the timing data in the headers is equivalent.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    I understand that concern, but again, the data is still very much present. It's listed in the Headings for each track. I am only editing entries which I submitted, and I obtained the track times by putting the disc into my PC. That's why I previously listed all of the track times in the Headings. Just to be clear, I only removed two or three track times out of ten or fifteen. All of the track times are listing in the Heading, and those I removed were basically in there twice. This was causing the data to actually be incorrect, because those few track times were throwing off the total time of the discs.
  • 7jlong over 2 years ago

    I'm confused about how the tracklist for some of these is being entered. Why would Headings be used to denote tracks on these releases, rather than what is prescribed in the Guidelines - specifically, RSG §12.2.9, bullet 7?

    "Sub tracks, for example DJ mixes that comprise one track on a CD: Separate songs or tunes that are rolled into one track on a CD, LP etc should be listed using a point and then a number: 1, 2, 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 4… Letters can also be used, with or without a point; A3.a A3.b, or A3a, A3b…"
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    I may have done it incorrectly when I added the sub over two years ago. If memory serves, I used the Copy To Draft function for my first one, (can't remember which exact one that was) utilizing someone else's sub as a starting point, and I continued in that format moving forward. If they need correcting, I'll gladly do it. As I said, they've been here for over two years and no one said anything thus far...
  • 7jlong over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    As I said, they've been here for over two years and no one said anything thus far...

    I can only speak for myself, but the reason I personally didn't say anything over the last two years was because I had not looked at these releases. Now that there's a big thread called "Ultimate Guide" that pops up daily, I looked at them to see what I could learn.

    Sorry, just a question, carry on.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    7jlong
    I can only speak for myself, but the reason I personally didn't say anything over the last two years was because I had not looked at these releases. Now that there's a big thread called "Ultimate Guide" that pops up daily, I looked at them to see what I could learn.

    Sorry, just a question, carry on.


    No, no, please don't misunderstand me. I am glad you asked. If they are incorrect, I want to fix them. I take full responsibility for my submissions, and I want them to be right. I was simply explaining why they may be incorrect. I personally have seen compact discs such as these entered several different ways. But again, I want mine to conform to the Guidelines. Thank you for pointing that out.
  • rikroc over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    The data is still present in the Headings which accompany the sub.


    7jlong
    Why would Headings be used to denote tracks on these releases, rather than what is prescribed in the Guidelines - specifically, RSG §12.2.9, bullet 7?

    The use of headings here may also run afoul of RSG §12.13.4 but they are a better representation of what is on the cue sheet. If kept, I would suggest changing the wording (i.e."Track 1" to "Segment One") as on the cue and getting rid of the redundant "On CD".
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Here's one I'd like some input on:

    Golden Age Records

    Transcriptions or not? I believe they should be tagged as such because a lot of those releases contain original radio broadcasts.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Transcriptions or not? I believe they should be tagged as such because a lot of those releases contain original radio broadcasts.

    With respect, no. The definition of transcription is "This tag is for releases licensed to radio stations for public broadcast which were not sold to the general public."
    https://www.discogs.com/help/formatslist
    These are the opposite. They are commercial recordings of radio broadcasts, sold to the general public decades after the original broadcast. They do not fit your own definition:
    U2Streets
    As I pointed out to another user recently in the History Notes of one of their subs, the word "transcription" has several meanings. Here are just a few from a recent Google search:
    A recording (as on magnetic tape) made especially for use in radio broadcasting.
    ....
    But in terms of this database, the first definition is the one we use here.

    A lot of these shows were probably broadcast live, not recorded for radio broadcasting.
  • andygrayrecords over 2 years ago

    no_noise_reduction
    U2StreetsI see your point. That said, the Promo tag is already present on that sub; I didn’t remove it; and the Promo tag discussion has been settled. I have no wish to revisit it.

    Oh hm, I was just remembering that we were discussing the differences between promo and transcription releases in an earlier thread and that we agreed that in some instances releases can be both.


    Various - Muse Views
    Would this be considered both?
    It's currently listed as a promo only.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    andygrayrecords

    Various - Muse Views
    Would this be considered both?
    It's currently listed as a promo only.


    I believe it should be both, yes. Especially since it clearly states: "FOR BORADCAST USE ONLY."
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    A lot of these shows were probably broadcast live, not recorded for radio broadcasting.


    But wouldn't that also qualify them for the Transcription tag? If they were broadcast live on the radio, and later transcribed onto vinyl (in the case of many of the releases on the Golden Age Records label page) then I tend to think it would still apply. Just my opinion, and I respect yours. That's why I'm seeking input. For the record, I have not made any changes to those releases listed on that page...
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    If they were broadcast live on the radio, and later transcribed onto vinyl

    By that standard, everything ever broadcast on the radio is a transcription. I have to argue that that is wrong. Do you want to make all those "Live At The BBC" records transcriptions? The BBC actually made transcriptions for radio broadcast, but The Rolling Stones On Air is not a transcription disc. It is a commercially released compilation of recordings originally recorded for broadcast, and is not itself intended for radio broadcast. The same applies to The Lone Ranger (2), Original Radio Broadcasts - Two Complete Episodes (compiles two separate broadcasts for commercial release, not radio broadcast).

    If you want to make these transcriptions, I think you need support to change the definition of transcription. You won't get it from me.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    If you want to make these transcriptions, I think you need support to change the definition of transcription. You won't get it from me.


    It's not that I specifically "want" to change them, I'm simply asking if they "should" be. I see an avenue where the tag might apply. You do not. Fair points that you mentioned above, by the way. As I said, I respect your opinion.
  • leeving over 2 years ago

    I would agree with the -1 in the above discussion over the Golden Age Records series.

    This would be the same as all Peel Sessions getting a Transcription tag.

    The transcription tag should be only for "for broadcast" type releases, not releases that were once aired on or recorded to be aired on the radio.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    Fair enough for me. Two -1 votes is all I need to hear. Thanks for the input. I'll leave that page as it is.
  • avalon67 over 2 years ago

    leeving
    I would agree with the -1 in the above discussion over the Golden Age Records series.


    I'm -1 too
    leeving
    This would be the same as all Peel Sessions getting a Transcription tag


    Or indeed Hancock's Half Hour, The Goon Show, some Spike Milligan and that's just the ones I'm familiar with and of course Fields Of The Nephilim - BBC Radio 1 Live In Concert
  • andygrayrecords over 2 years ago

    avalon67
    I'm -1 too

    Agree there too
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    andygrayrecords
    Agree there too


    All good, no changes will be made.

    Next question: I am still finding that members are adding shows to the Off The Record Special label page without utilizing the Transcription tag. I have had to go in several times over the last couple of days and add the tag myself. (Of course, I am referencing this Thread when I do.) Here is just one example of a sub that was added only a day ago:

    https://www.discogs.com/release/13375890-Off-The-Record/history#latest

    That particular member has added fifteen such shows in the past month, and I have had to add the Transcription tag to all of them. (I am not picking on that member, only using that entry as an example to show that people still may not be aware of the tag.) I am therefore requesting permission to add the following text (or some agreed upon variation) to the Profile section of that label page:

    "Please ensure to add the Transcription tag to all submission for this series."

    or

    "Entries in this series should utilize the Transcription tag."

    And of course I will add a link to this Thread as well. I am only requesting to add that text to that specific label Profile and not others at this time. I say that because it is clear that any sub in the Off The Record Special series would be a Transcription radio show, thus that text would apply to all entries there. (There may be others where that text would apply, such as Off The Record Classic and BBC Classic Tracks, and members can feel free to make suggestions here about those.)

    I'll await agreement prior to adding said text, if agreed upon here. And I thank all of you who have contributed to this Thread.
  • RGJones over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    I am sure there are and will be more Transcription release labels to be added to this list, and as members notify me of them, I'll add them here.


    What's It All About??
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    U2Streets edited over 2 years ago
    RGJones
    What's It All About?


    Good call! Added to the Master List now. Thanks!

    PS: That one also looks like a good candidate for the aforementioned text regarding the Transcription tag.
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    I am still finding that members are adding shows to the Off The Record Special label page without utilizing the Transcription tag.

    Please remember, it's not mandatory. I would rather people leave it off than add it improperly.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    Please remember, it's not mandatory.


    Understood, but it is clearly warranted for all submissions that utilize Off The Record Special as the series. So while not mandatory, I do think the aforementioned suggested text (posted to the Profile) would help members adding those shows. The wording does not have to be forceful, and I don't think my wording above was.

    For the record, are you voting -1 for my suggestion? Just asking for future reference...
  • ThomasP64 over 2 years ago

    I'm not voting -1 to editing the profiles. I'm saying that I believe it would be improper to apply Needs Changes votes because of the lack of a transcription tag, as it is not mandatory. There is no obligation to add the transcription tag. You've already said above you think transcription should be mandatory. -1,000 to that. I disagree.
  • 7jlong over 2 years ago

    I would personally discontinue use of "All radio shows are Transcription releases for Discogs purposes." in the release history when adding Transcription tags. It is a misleading statement. Golden Age Records is full of radio shows, and wasn't it just determined above that they should not be tagged Transcription?

    My concern is that someone will copy just that statement into incorrect edits adding Transcription where it shouldn't be and completely ignore the discussion that has taken place here. It's too definitive a statement for a tag that clearly has gray areas.
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    ThomasP64
    I'm not voting -1 to editing the profiles. I'm saying that I believe it would be improper to apply Needs Changes votes because of the lack of a transcription tag, as it is not mandatory. There is no obligation to add the transcription tag. You've already said above you think transcription should be mandatory. -1,000 to that. I disagree.


    Thank you for clarifying your position. I'm in no way talking about votes when I suggest adding some notes to the Profile, but I respect and understand what you're saying there.

    7jlong
    I would personally discontinue use of "All radio shows are Transcription releases for Discogs purposes." in the release history when adding Transcription tags. It is a misleading statement. Golden Age Records is full of radio shows, and wasn't it just determined above that they should not be tagged Transcription?

    My concern is that someone will copy just that statement into incorrect edits adding Transcription where it shouldn't be and completely ignore the discussion that has taken place here. It's too definitive a statement for a tag that clearly has gray areas.


    Fair point. I'll think about a better way to word what I'm trying to convey. Any suggestions? I always try to provide an alternative when I suggest that someone not do something...
  • 7jlong over 2 years ago

    U2Streets
    Fair point. I'll think about a better way to word what I'm trying to convey. Any suggestions? I always try to provide an alternative when I suggest that someone not do something...

    Oh. Well, my suggestion was to discontinue use of "All radio shows are Transcription releases for Discogs purposes", which leaves you with:

    "Added the Transcription tag per https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/788582 "

    That isn't enough?
  • stay_zapped over 2 years ago

    maybe also a transcription disc BBC Serviço Brasileiro
  • stay_zapped over 2 years ago

    maybe also a transcription disc BBC Serviço Brasileiro
  • RockNurse over 2 years ago

    Here's a McGuinn/Cheap Trick 7" in the What's It All About? series that I added to the database awhile back, along with the Dr. Hook/Byrds 7". I got the notification you had added the transcription tag to the latter, so I went in and added it to the former. But you should still probably check the McGuinn/Cheap Trick entry for errors, since I was very much a novice (still am) when I added it, and I'm trying to get more familiar with the process before I start adding more releases to the database (I have quite a stack I'll eventually add, mostly obscure '80s and '90s bands on 45 and CD). Here's the link: https://www.discogs.com/Roger-McGuinn-Cheap-Trick-Whats-It-All-About/release/12027985
  • U2Streets over 2 years ago

    7jlong
    That isn't enough?


    Honestly, for some people here, no it's not enough. (I'm not talking about you.) In my experience with these edits, members rarely read the linked Thread. Then, for those who do, they don't always read the entire Thread. I can't tell you how many times I've provided a link only to have another member come behind me and ask me to explain the edit. I even had one member repeatedly ask me to provide evidence of a Forum discussion regarding the edit, even though I posted a link to this Thread three times. So that's why I've taken to adding a brief explanation along with the link. That seems to have cleared up any issues that people might have before they have them. And until you mentioned it, no one has had a problem with the wording.

    Again, fair point and I'll try to come up with something less definitive.

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