• TashaH over 3 years ago

    The goal of this update is to set our users up for success by spelling out what is required when placing an order, creating seller terms, and handling order disputes.

    The updated policy is effective as of today. However, we are allowing Discogs Sellers until the end of March to make sure they are in compliance. The policy updates reflect the best practices utilized by most successful users of the Marketplace. So most likely, as a Marketplace user, you are already meeting these guidelines. To read the complete Sales & Transaction policy, click here. If you have any questions or feedback related to the updated Sales & Transaction policy, please post in this forum thread which will be moderated by Discogs Staff.
  • DrunkDragon over 3 years ago

    Now that sellers are allowed to set a minimum amount or value for an order, will it be possible to have that integrated in the shipping policies?
  • Sandal-Records over 3 years ago

    How much shipping will cost for each region the seller agrees to ship to. If a seller accepts an order from a region that does not have a stated shipping charge, the buyer may request cancellation and feedback removal.

    Any regions the seller refuses to ship to.

    The cost of any shipping add-ons such as tracked, signed for, insured delivery.

    Any required shipping add-ons for items exceeding a certain price.


    Does this still apply if automatic shipping calculation is used?

    Can we now specify a minimum order value? Can we do this by country?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    DrunkDragonGreat question!

    We talked about keeping the prohibition on minimum order requirements in place until we could make what you are suggesting possible. It would be ideal to build this into the automatic shipping policies feature. Then, sellers could prevent orders that do not meet their requirements from being placed. We will get there eventually, but we didn't want to make sellers wait for that to happen before we allowed minimum order requirements.
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    Sandal-Records Thanks for asking!

    The intention is to make sure buyers can see what they will be charged for shipping before placing an order. If you are using the automatic shipping policies feature - buyers will be able see this so you don't have repeat this information in your Seller Terms. However, you should post additional information if you are willing to ship to regions that you have not set up an automatic shipping policy for.

    When it comes to the minimum order value or volume requirement, sellers are allowed to set a general requirement that applies to all regions they are willing to ship to - as long as it is clearly stated in their Seller Terms. Please do not set up different requirements for different areas.
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    Farjenk edited over 3 years ago
    TashaH, could you address why a requirement that buyers use PayPal shipping address as their shipping address on Discogs hasn't been considered?

    Edit: Nevermind. It does seem to have been addressed! Kudos Discogs, it's been a long time coming.

    Edit Edit: Actually, it doesn't explicitly say they must list the PayPal address here, which is actually what leads to the confusion. It says Seller must provide "Correct Shipping Information" and that buyer must accept delivery at PayPal shipping address if using PayPal to pay, but it still leaves room for confusion/shenanigans/deceit if buyer is posting a non-paypal address on Discogs, but still paying via PayPal. But most importantly, it means the seller will STILL have to double check the addresses by opening up PayPal and finding the order and comparing the two addresses. :{

    Edit: spelling error
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    Farjenk, I thought someone would ask! I understand why - it's a fair question.

    The reason is that some buyers and sellers agree to ship items to an address that is different from what is listed on their PayPal account. This can be the case if someone is buying a person a gift for someone else and would like it shipped directly to them. Also, some buyers ask that orders be sent to a location that requires less of a shipping charge. A seller is not expected to agree to do this, but they can if they are willing to accept the associated risks.
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    A seller is not expected to agree to do this, but they can if they are willing to accept the associated risks.


    Yes, but unfortunately this means sellers will still be stuck double-checking addresses, by having to go to the third-party site, open the page, find the order and compare addresses. and if they find the addresses are different, the real fun begins, contacting the buyer to sort it all out...

    Can't we just say that addresses must match and that if you want to have it sent to another address, buyer must open a dialogue with the seller about that?
  • DrunkDragon over 3 years ago

    Farjenk
    Can't we just say that addresses must match and that if you want to have it sent to another address, buyer must open a dialogue with the seller about that?


    +1
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    It really doesn't address the problem, and in fact may increase risk for the seller. We can still be out a record if we accidentally ship to the non-PayPal address. Then seller can say "But why did you send it to the address on Discogs? Discogs terms say you must ship to the PayPal address!"
  • PabloPlato over 3 years ago

    Farjenk
    Can't we just say that addresses must match and that if you want to have it sent to another address, buyer must open a dialogue with the seller about that?


    i'd rather that if user's want it sent to a different address then they should add that address as a secondary ship-to address in paypal and select it prior to making payment.

    i only ship to the paypal address and when the discogs address doesnt match, and the customer wants me to ship to that unmatching address, i have to refund and instruct them on how to add a secondary ship-to address. its tedious and it shouldn't be my responsibility.
  • PabloPlato over 3 years ago

    Farjenk
    We can still be out a record if we accidentally ship to the non-PayPal address. Then seller can say "But why did you send it to the address on Discogs? Discogs terms say you must ship to the PayPal address!"


    yup, then they open a paypal claim for item not received and even if the item was shipped with tracking, if the address it was sent to is different than the one currently selected as the ship-to address in paypal, the seller will lose and the buyer will be refunded. it's ripe for abuse by scammers, and discogs empowers them to run this scheme. no thanks.
  • uzn007 over 3 years ago

    Could we get a summary of what has changed vs. the old policy?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    uzn007, sure! The changes are explained in this blog post.
  • Sandal-Records over 3 years ago

    Since payment providers, such as PayPal, will only provide Seller protection if the order is shipped to the address listed with the Buyer’s payment provider, Sellers may cancel an order if the Buyer’s shipping information listed in Discogs does not match what is listed with their payment provider. If a Seller cancels an order for this reason, they may request Discogs to remove order feedback.

    If the Paypal address and Discogs address do not match - and the seller decides to cancel the order - instead of requesting Discogs to remove any negative feedback, can we not have an address mismatch as a reason to cancel in the drop down menu for order cancel - without the ability for the buyer to leave feedback in the first place?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    Sandal-Records, that is something for us to consider for sure! The Community Success team will be monitoring the amount of feedback review requests made for issues related to mismatched addresses. If we see that it is taking a significant toll on our Feedback Review System, we can bring that data to our development team and see what we can do.
  • BarnyardOrbit over 3 years ago

    * The cost of any shipping add-ons such as tracked, signed for, insured delivery.

    * Any required shipping add-ons for items exceeding a certain price.

    The potential issue with these requirements is that it's often determined on a order-by-order basis, particularly for international transactions. For example, a brand new user residing in a known-problematic country may result in a significantly lower threshold for "add-ons". On the opposite end of the spectrum is the already-proven/trustworthy user and/or repeat customer. A seller should be afforded some latitude in this area, particularly when at a minimum they're on the hook for exorbitant international shipping costs.
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    Excellent point BarnyardOrbit. While this requirement is not new, I am happy to provide some guidance here.

    Of course, it is not possible for sellers to predict the exact shipping charge for every situation. That is okay. We are not asking you to do this. What we do ask is for you to disclose what you normally charge for add-ons under regular circumstances.

    If you find yourself in a situation where you need to add a charge that is not itemized in your Seller Terms because it is an unusually large order, an order of a very high value or an order being shipped to an area you normally don't service, and the buyer disagrees, we ask that you cancel the order Per Buyer's Request. Yes, this does leave you open to the possibility of negative feedback. If you feel that feedback is unfair, send us a Feedback Review Request and we will take a look at the unique circumstances surrounding the order.
  • ziggiole over 3 years ago

    I’m quite sure most of my future buyings will take place elsewhere from now on, since seller can set a minimum requirement.
    Unfortunately very few sellers have more than just a single record I want, and I fear some will implement this new feature.
  • zero_kelvin over 3 years ago

    I won't. Everyone's still welcome!
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    ziggiole, I understand your concern. There is no way to know for sure how many sellers will implement a minimum order requirement. However, you can always check their Seller Terms before buying to find out.

    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement? If so, how much are you thinking?

    If you are not going to add a minimum order requirement, please let us know here as well. I'm genuinely curious.
  • andygrayrecords over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement? If so, how much are you thinking?


    Had one for years. It's £1 - you'll not make me leave the house for anything less than £1.
  • AUX33TOURS over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement?


    We have never had one and have no intention of implementing one.
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    Farjenk edited over 3 years ago
    ziggiole
    Unfortunately very few sellers have more than just a single record I want, and I fear some will implement this new feature.


    I think it's usually more about a minimum price requirement, not a minimum number of items.

    If it was in reference to a minimum item price requirement, you could always contact the seller and ask that they raise the price a bit so you could purchase. XD

    Edit: Sorry, that made no sense. I meant in reference to minimum price requirement. Fixed
  • DarreLP over 3 years ago

    Farjenk
    this means sellers will still be stuck double-checking addresses


    This. I don't understand why an address is even stored on discogs. If a seller pays via paypal, that's the address they get things to. If they pay via a different means, they can enter the address at time of payment.

    But I agree with the point that, at least as of now, it's a huge pain for us sellers to have to cross-reference every order with the buyer's Discogs address and Paypal address and I've found that in my experience, when they are different, the user isn't even aware of it and doesn't understand why I can't ship to their discogs address by default.
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    DarreLP, I get your frustration. I am logging this feedback, so thank you. One of the reasons we store an address is so buyers can easily see conversions for items priced in different currencies. It also helps buyers see how much shipping will cost when placing orders with sellers who use automatic shipping policies. In addition, it helps us calculate tax in certain areas, as required by some governments - for example, Australia and Japan. Nevertheless, I agree that we should be investigating ways to eliminate this extra, address-checking step for sellers.
  • zero_kelvin over 3 years ago

    Well.
    I have an interesting case now.
    Chinese buyer's paypalshippingadress and discogsshippingadress have different zipcodes.
    Send him 7 mails last 2 weeks to confirm the correct zipcode.
    Still no answer.
    So no shipping yet, because i don't want to risk nondelivery.
  • DarreLP over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    I get your frustration. I am logging this feedback, so thank you


    Thanks for listening!
  • massenmedium over 3 years ago

    I read it and it all seems very clear. No complaints at this time ;-)

    The address policy is fine for now AFAIC.
  • 8892sales over 3 years ago

    I really don't understand why buyers can't add more than one address to their paypal account. Or why it can't be a requirement by discogs. As mentioned further up by other users, make it a requirement to add the recipient address onto the paypal account.
  • loukash over 3 years ago

    8892sales
    why buyers can't add more than one address to their paypal account

    ?
    I can, since years.
    Is that regionally different?
  • 8892sales over 3 years ago

    8892sales edited over 3 years ago
    loukash
    ?
    I can, since years.
    Is that regionally different?
    Apologies. I should've been clearer. I didn't mean it literally. I meant it figuratively speaking. As buyers can't be bothered or don't want to or for some reason have no idea how to / unaware that they're able to.
  • massenmedium over 3 years ago

    Dosn't the address need to.be "confirmed" on PayPal? Might defeat the purpose if buyers add ad-hoc addresses that aren't confirmed.
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    massenmedium
    Dosn't the address need to.be "confirmed" on PayPal? Might defeat the purpose if buyers add ad-hoc addresses that aren't confirmed.


    Basically, to my understanding/memory, the buyer can add any extra address to paypal as a verified/gift address, but that address has to be added before the buyer pays the invoice. You can't change that address after the invoice has been paid.
  • DarreLP over 3 years ago

    Farjenk
    You can't change that address after the invoice has been paid.


    Yes. And this just adds to the hassle sometimes.

    I've had to cancel orders and ask buyers to go change their address in paypal and then re-order. That's kind of a pain for everyone involved.
  • pulsemod over 3 years ago

    Correct. A PP user can't change a 'transaction specific' address once a process has begun. They can add multiple addresses at any time, before they buy. Most PP users don't know that. Often times it's too late when a buyer purchases using outdated addressing info. Online vinyl purchasing is absolutely dependent on convenience. Amazon and eBay have trained many minds to believe this. Once a buyer becomes inconvenienced, the deal is probably in peril. All a seller can do is hope from there. Cancel and instruct the buyer to update their address info in PP and then re-buy under the updated address info. Hopefully they'll do it, in a timely manner.

    Often times when this has happened to me, I'm met with the same response: "It worked last time. What do you mean? I paid you." In other words what they're telling you is a lot of sellers don't care, they'll just send the record and hope for the best. All the while training minds that what they're doing is typical, thus conformist and okay.
  • pulsemod over 3 years ago

    At least now we aren't forced into the untenable position of having to wait on a buyer who might or might not return and/or neg due to being inconvenienced, despite being the party who caused the issue to begin with. I've seen plenty of that lazy and dumb FB that Discogs didn't fix.
  • Farjenk over 3 years ago

    Farjenk edited over 3 years ago
    DarreLP
    Yes. And this just adds to the hassle sometimes.


    Yes. It's not just a simple,- double-check addresses,"Hey is this correct address?" - "No" - "Change it." - "Ok" and it's done.

    It's actually- double-check addresses "Hey, is this address correct?" - "No" - "I'm sorry. I have to cancel your invoice, refund your money via PayPal, resend an invoice of my own outside of Discogs... unless I want to cancel Discogs Order, relist item, wait for buyer to repurchase the item, double check addresses again... gah! in the meantime someone else could purchase the item as it's been relisted...
  • DukeDev over 3 years ago

    Sandal-Records
    Since payment providers, such as PayPal, will only provide Seller protection if the order is shipped to the address listed with the Buyer’s payment provider, Sellers may cancel an order if the Buyer’s shipping information listed in Discogs does not match what is listed with their payment provider. If a Seller cancels an order for this reason, they may request Discogs to remove order feedback.

    If the Paypal address and Discogs address do not match - and the seller decides to cancel the order - instead of requesting Discogs to remove any negative feedback, can we not have an address mismatch as a reason to cancel in the drop down menu for order cancel - without the ability for the buyer to leave feedback in the first place?


    +1
  • DukeDev over 3 years ago

    ziggiole
    I’m quite sure most of my future buyings will take place elsewhere from now on, since seller can set a minimum requirement.
    Unfortunately very few sellers have more than just a single record I want, and I fear some will implement this new feature.


    Hey, I get that - but, on the other hand, try spending the time and effort to pull an album, pull the inner and disc out, find a cheap inner if the original is printed/nice/special, put it in a plastic sleeve, cut some cardboard inserts, tape the album in the inserts, buy/scavenge/make a box, tape it up, check the address, print label, tape that to front, get package to mail carrier, follow on regular basis, respond to feedback - and doing all that for a $0.99 item on which you will pay Paypal $0.30 + 2.9% of item and shipping, and discogs 8% with a minimum of $0.10.

    I am sure the minimums will be $ amount, not number of items. Sellers can't make a sale of 20 things for $1.99 apiece unless those are listed, and sellers would quit the whole thing if they only sold $0.49-$1.99 things one at a time.
  • DukeDev over 3 years ago

    I have see a TON of buyers that show up as non-US (most Eastern European like Ukraine or Latin American like Mexico) based on profile page or either their Discogs or Paypal address, but want the package sent to an address (either Discogs or Paypal) that is Delaware, Miami, Texas. They want to check out like a US buyer for US shipping, with the package sent to their drop/collection box. Probably 5% of all my sales, actually. It just take a little sorting.

    But, the Discogs procedures make it incumbent on me to figure out what is going on, when it should be on the buyer - because if something goes wrong, the seller is the one with the risk. Discogs updates actually make this worse.
  • 8892sales over 3 years ago

    Also. When sellers refund a paypal payment to a buyer, doesn't paypal keep a partial percentage fee, albeit small, from that sale?
  • pulsemod over 3 years ago

    Sandal-Records
    Since payment providers, such as PayPal, will only provide Seller protection if the order is shipped to the address listed with the Buyer’s payment provider, Sellers may cancel an order if the Buyer’s shipping information listed in Discogs does not match what is listed with their payment provider. If a Seller cancels an order for this reason, they may request Discogs to remove order feedback.

    If the Paypal address and Discogs address do not match - and the seller decides to cancel the order - instead of requesting Discogs to remove any negative feedback, can we not have an address mismatch as a reason to cancel in the drop down menu for order cancel - without the ability for the buyer to leave feedback in the first place?


    This. They can do this.
  • pulsemod over 3 years ago

    8892sales
    Also. When sellers refund a paypal payment to a buyer, doesn't paypal keep a partial percentage fee, albeit small, from that sale?


    Yes
  • Gliese14G-Records over 3 years ago

    The buyer can choose whichever address they want, the issue here is they aren't setting the chosen address as their default shipping address on Paypal, which removes all protection for the seller.

    TashaH
    Earjerk, I thought someone would ask! I understand why - it's a fair question.

    The reason is that some buyers and sellers agree to ship items to an address that is different from what is listed on their PayPal account. This can be the case if someone is buying a person a gift for someone else and would like it shipped directly to them. Also, some buyers ask that orders be sent to a location that requires less of a shipping charge. A seller is not expected to agree to do this, but they can if they are willing to accept the associated risks.
  • 8892sales over 3 years ago

    On an unrelated note. Trying to print the updated transaction policy is becoming a pain. All printer settings are fine yet it only prints the first page. All other websites print okay.

    Gliese14G-Records
    The buyer can choose whichever address they want, the issue here is they aren't setting the chosen address as their default shipping address on Paypal, which removes all protection for the seller.
    This. And this needs be chosen BEFORE ordering and payment. I'm going to keep reiterating this so people reading get the gist of the issue.
  • Gliese14G-Records over 3 years ago

    Exactly, as a seller you won't find out which address will come up until the buyer pays, you then need to refund them and request another payment, totally unnecesary. And as someone mentioned earlier, this shouldn't be something sellers have to worry about.
    The shipping address submitted to Discogs when opening a new account should match the default Paypal address. A no brainer.
  • RockNurse over 3 years ago

    RockNurse edited over 3 years ago
    TashaH
    ziggiole, I understand your concern. There is no way to know for sure how many sellers will implement a minimum order requirement. However, you can always check their Seller Terms before buying to find out.

    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement? If so, how much are you thinking?

    If you are not going to add a minimum order requirement, please let us know here as well. I'm genuinely curious.


    I don’t plan to, no. For the time being, I don’t list items for under $8 anyway, so being overrun by small orders isn’t a concern.

    Oh, and I agree that having address mismatch (with no ability to leave neg feedback) in the drop down seems reasonable - and sellers should probably make sure the address issue is mentioned prominently in their terms, since a lot of buyers don’t automatically know that. I didn’t myself until a few months ago that you can have more than 1 listed with PayPal.
  • MusicDirectVintage over 3 years ago

    We've had just over a thousand orders in the last 18 months not one has been disputed about delivery between the Discogs address and the PayPal address. The only times we have been checking is when the Discogs address is difficult to verify using Endicia or Discogs' mailing service. Most of the time the difference is someone wanting a package shipping to their business address or as mentioned elsewhere, a US mailbox for a foreign order. It should be the buyer's responsibility to provide the correct address on their Discogs order. Period. That's why we suggested in the past that there is more of a form to fill out so that a verifiable address is provided in a format that can be exported to Discogs' labels or Endicia or USPS.

    That said, most buyers who routinely ship to an alternate address have been noting that in their order. We may start checking/verifying on orders over $50 or $100 but isn't worth it for every single transaction when we have had no problems so far.
  • sublemon over 3 years ago

    uh TashaH

    Sellers must provide the following information on their Seller Terms page:
    "Any regions the seller refuses to ship to."

    Is this covered by just only selecting the countries one DOES ship to in the shipping policies? Do I now have to look at a globe and figure out the hundreds of countries I do not ship to?
  • sublemon over 3 years ago

    CAn I just list the countries I do ship to and say "no shipping to all other countries/regions not listed"

    Seems dumb, isn;t this why we have the option of choosing the countries in the shipping policies?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    sublemon, don't worry. Nothing has really changed here. If you use our Automatic Shipping Policies feature, you can block countries you do not want to ship to by either selecting them and blocking them or by choosing the countries you do ship to and blocking the rest.

    Similarly, if you are adding information to your Seller Terms, you can either state countries you specifically do not ship to, or state the countries that you only agree to ship to. The ease of the method you choose to convey this information depends on your ratio of blocked countries to allowed countries.
  • massenmedium over 3 years ago

    8892sales
    When sellers refund a paypal payment to a buyer, doesn't paypal keep a partial percentage fee, albeit small, from that sale?

    The fixed portion, it's not a percentage.

    Farjenk
    resend an invoice of my own outside of Discogs.

    Which, ironically, is against the updated policies (or maybe it was before.)
  • sublemon over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    Similarly, if you are adding information to your Seller Terms, you can either state countries you specifically do not ship to, or state the countries that you only agree to ship to. The ease of the method you choose to convey this information depends on your ratio of blocked countries to allowed countries.


    Thanks, sounds good
  • perthmichael over 3 years ago

    These changes, and this forum thread, seem to be all about the sellers. How about some changes that would make this marketplace actually reliable for buyers???

    For one, how about a requirement that sellers MUST grade correctly, and processes to better enforce that? This is the reason why I rarely buy from Discogs. And when I do, I have to spend hours trawling through all the feedback of all the sellers who are offering the particular item I'm interested in, and looking at their profile page, and the rest of their inventory and how that's graded, or any other scant information I can find, trying to determine which of those sellers might actually be grading accurately. I'd say that a majority aren't (especially the one's that are DJ's or into EDM - I don't think they've ever seen a record that hasn't been carried around in a box and covered in fingerprints, so they think VG is NM!)

    Having said that, I have had some great experiences with good sellers. I feel for these sellers, who get lost in the mountains of over-graded crap and careless sellers that clog this marketplace. And the choice they have to make to either join in the 'competitive grading' farce, or sell their stock for less than its properly worth if they grade it accurately.

    So how about some proper enforcement of grading standards, and some processes to achieve that? It seems from what I've read in the forums that any disputes or reports from buyers on this topic are too readily dismissed by Discogs staff because 'grading is subjective' and too hard to establish, so they err on the side of the (revenue generating) seller - to the detriment of the good sellers who want to continue to use this marketplace and would like it to maintain its value

    And how about some improvements to the Feedback rules?

    Also from what I've read on the forums (from both buyers and sellers) is that its all too easy for sellers to have negative feedback removed. Why? Any buyer with half a brain knows that there are unreasonable people out there, and we can make our own judgements as to whether a negative comment is reasonable or not. But let us see it all, don't censor it. Otherwise, it undermines the entire feedback system, and there's nothing to provide the buyer with any confidence.

    Also, there's the risk of retaliatory feedback, and consequent disincentive for buyers to leave open and meaningful feedback. (I've seen some shocking replies to negative feedback from angry sellers). Why not prevent sellers from leaving feedback on the buyer after the buyer has left feedback for the seller? This is how most other on-line platforms (such as eBay) work.

    And as for the new policies instructions to buyers about resolving disputes before leaving negative feedback... Do you realise that by the time you've gone through the payment provider's dispute resolution process you are no longer able to leave feedback on the transaction on Discogs because the time limit has passed?

    What we end up with is a marketplace that buyers cannot have any confidence in, and it will eventually undermine itself as more and more buyers start leaving the marketplace and looking elsewhere. It is not commercially sustainable, and Discogs is trading away/eroding any of its remaining goodwill and reputation.

    Whenever I look at 'items for sale', it seems that every single seller has 99.x% positive feedback rating. This is ludircous, and defies belief. My own experience is that its about 50% reliable. If I spend hours trawling through seller feedback comments, I can get this up to about 70-80%. But 99.x%??? Who are you fooling?

    There's lots of comments in forums about how Discogs seems to be biased towards (revenue generating) sellers and against buyers interests. And these new policy changes seem to be tipping the imbalance further in the same direction.

    How about getting some more balance back into these policies, so that buyers can have confidence, and the marketplace can be sustained, and the very many good sellers out there can actually stand out from the rabble, and get the sales and income that they deserve. That'd be a nice change.

    Thanks
  • RussellDAR over 3 years ago

    I quote shipping costs dependent on 'actual' cost to me! This varies depending on destination, weight, size/value of shipment and materials used and postal service/courier used. It would be very time consuming to list all possible permutations to the various destinations I have shipped to. Would probably have to reassess after the UK leaves the EU too. It also may deter some potential buyers who see a set pricing and would not be aware that some flexibility may be possible. Have been shipping to the Discogs addressees as a default as I had perceived that it was the buyers choice as to where he had his goods despatched to. Will change this immediately but unhappy that I will have to check with PayPal for each transaction. Already adhere to timeline being implemented but in the future may well unlist temporarily more frequently just in case real life gets in the way!
    Overall I do think that listing all shipping variations is a backward step.
  • equilibriummusic over 3 years ago

    Regarding the Discogs address not matching the PayPal address, I have ran into this several times, yes. I try to doublecheck this information before shipping (you can do so when you get the PayPal payment email, for instance, it's easier than having to log in on PayPal, etc.) not only for mismatched addresses but also in case there are typos, etc. I'm not too bothered with addresses not matching as I can understand that for whatever reason the buyer may want the stuff shipped to an address other than his PayPal address, but what I do find quite cumbersome is that a lot of buyers are very slow to confirm which address they want me to ship to. Either way I always ask buyers to confirm that their address is complete and updated when I update the order total, but this request is usually ignored.

    Having said that, an order cancellation option for non-matching addresses would definitely be welcome.

    I don't think a minimum order requirement makes much sense, to be honest. Sellers adopting such a policy seems a bit silly in this kind of platform where most (apparently, but feel free to share your experience if that's not the case) orders are for single items. If you're not happy with selling just one single record because it's too cheap, you should either raise the price, not sell it at all and simply reflect that minimum as an order handling fee of some sort, for instance.

    Is there any chance of Discogs automatically setting the order status to Payment Received for payments sent through PayPal, for instance? It's quite annoying to have to set this manually when PayPal already returns payment confirmed feedback to the platform when the payment is completed. And it's even more annoying when buyers ask why the order is still in Payment Pending status when they've already paid. Not having the marketplace set orders to Payment Received automatically only causes confusion, and at least when payment are done with PayPal I really don't understand why this is not implemented.
  • jongrigg over 3 years ago

    Regarding sellers setting a minimum order amount: Could Discogs provide an input box in Seller Settings where sellers can simply type in their minimum value? It would be great if a buyer tried to buy below that amount and an automated message appeared explaining that they needed to spend up to the required figure. I would simply choose £5. Thanks, Jon :)
  • DarreLP over 3 years ago

    perthmichael
    For one, how about a requirement that sellers MUST grade correctly, and processes to better enforce that?


    +1

    I think everything you point out can be summed up with: we really, really, really need an overhaul of the feedback system as the current system is simply inadequate for encouraging better grading habits.
  • DarreLP over 3 years ago

    equilibriummusic
    I'm not too bothered with addresses not matching as I can understand that for whatever reason the buyer may want the stuff shipped to an address other than his PayPal address


    Which is very nice of you, but do note that when you do this, you lose any paypal protection. Not that sellers have a lot of protections to begin with, but if you ship to an address other than what's on their account, the buyer can simply file a 'didn't receive item' claim.
  • 8892sales over 3 years ago

    DarreLP
    the buyer can simply file a 'didn't receive item' claim.
    Indeed. Also, if a buyer isn't happy with the item's description or buyer's remorse they can always just say that the item didn't arrive anyway. Easier than having to negotiate a refund, return to seller etc
  • seveninch over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement? If so, how much are you thinking?


    I'm considering it, but not sure if it's worth the trouble before discogs implements it into the shipping calculator.
    The idea would be to clear out some stock by lowering individual item prices while adding minimum order value. The minimum order value would be $5-$10 probably, I just need something worth spending time and packing materials on.
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    jongrigg
    Regarding sellers setting a minimum order amount: Could Discogs provide an input box in Seller Settings where sellers can simply type in their minimum value? It would be great if a buyer tried to buy below that amount and an automated message appeared explaining that they needed to spend up to the required figure. I would simply choose £5. Thanks, Jon :)


    We discussed not allowing sellers to set a minimum order requirement until we have a feature like the one you are describing. In the end, we decided to lift the prohibition first and see how that goes. I do believe there will be a feature similar to what you are describing in Discogs future.
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    RussellDAR
    I quote shipping costs dependent on 'actual' cost to me! This varies depending on destination, weight, size/value of shipment and materials used and postal service/courier used. It would be very time consuming to list all possible permutations to the various destinations I have shipped to.


    We get that. We are not expecting you to figure out and state what the shipping would be for every situation you may encounter. If you would consider shipping to a region that you do not have a stated charge for, that is ok! You can address this in your Seller Terms by saying something like, "If you do not see a shipping charge for the region where you live, please contact me before placing your order so I can give you a shipping quote."
  • FunkyFonk over 3 years ago

    FunkyFonk edited over 3 years ago
    Allowing Sellers to set a minimum order will restrict (us) buyers from making further purchases as everything will be way too expensive as purchases on this platform, are usually for single items. With this implemented, they will oblige you to add more items to your cart when you don't need it, or having to pay for something that is not up to standard, as in my case Sealed / Brand New. This is very unfair, more so if the price will include shipping costs, which I doubt very much given that the majority of the carriers are already ridiculously expensive. As if there are sellers who will lower their prices on their items. Most of the time, they rarely accept any offers you make to them - when it is presented! They remove the possibility so you are forced to pay the actual asking price. Come on!!

    Another thing, Why is it that Payment received does not update automatically after payment is affected?? Some sellers never bother to update, and it can be very confusing and annoying when payment still shows as pending.
  • SchusterBach over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    Nothing has really changed here. If you use our Automatic Shipping Policies feature, you can block countries you do not want to ship to by either selecting them and blocking them or by choosing the countries you do ship to and blocking the rest.

    I am not sure you have explain this very well.....
    Can Discogs please define "Region" vs "Country"
    If i look tin to the Shipping Policies, can i see "Europe". Is that a Region ?
    If i the look below below europe, are there Western, Souther, Northern and Eastern Europe.... Is that a Region ?

    If the assumption is at Eastern Europe, are a region are 12 different country in that region... So according to the below, should the shipping cost, be the same for each country. How are i as a seller factor in risk here.

    The chance a package are going to wanish out in the air, are must higher in Ukraine and USSR, compare to Poland. So i this case will i then be able to demand Registered shipping to Ukraine and USSR, is i don't deman Registered shipping to Poland

    "How much shipping will cost for each region the seller agrees to ship to. If a seller accepts an order from a region that does not have a stated shipping charge, the buyer may request cancellation and feedback removal."
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    SchusterBach
    I am not sure you have explain this very well.....
    Can Discogs please define "Region" vs "Country"
    If i look tin to the Shipping Policies, can i see "Europe". Is that a Region ?
    If i the look below below europe, are there Western, Souther, Northern and Eastern Europe.... Is that a Region ?


    We use the word region to cover all of the above. This means that you can apply a set charge for a country, group of countries, continent, etc. It's your choice. The updated Sales & Transaction policy has not changed anything about the requirement to state your shipping charges up front nor has it changed how the Automatic Shipping Policies feature works.

    If you require registered shipping to certain countries, please be sure to disclose this in your Seller Terms.
  • seam-splitter over 3 years ago

    seam-splitter edited over 3 years ago
    TashaH
    We discussed not allowing sellers to set a minimum order requirement until we have a feature like the one you are describing. In the end, we decided to lift the prohibition first and see how that goes. I do believe there will be a feature similar to what you are describing in Discogs future.


    I think it is a great idea to implement a minimum order value.
    I tried to avoid to list items with a price below 10.00€ because for me as a private seller it is simply neither economical nor ecological to package and take a single 3.00€ record to the post office.
    Since i decided to add lower priced records to my store lately i welcome the decision to add such a minimum order value.
    But i am asking myself how to handle an incoming order below my accepted value.
    As long as it is not coded into the seller settings how should i react if someone orders a single 3.00€ record?
    When i cancel the order i have to state a reason. Since it would make no sense to state "item not available", "non-paying buyer" or "canceled per buyer's request" there should be an option like "minimum order value not reached" or "violation of seller terms".
    Or what would be the best way to react in such a case?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    seam-splitter
    But i am asking myself how to handle an incoming order below my accepted value.
    As long as it is not coded into the seller settings how should i react if someone orders a single 3.00€ record?


    Great question! As long as you have clearly stated in your Seller Terms what your minimum order requirement is, you can do one of the following:

    You can cancel the order as Per Buyer's Request.
    If you receive negative feedback from the buyer for doing this, you can file a Feedback Review Request and our team will remove the feedback - as long as that is the only reason why the feedback was left.

    You can cancel the order due to Non-Paying Buyer.
    While this prevents you from receiving any feedback for the order, it does mean that automatic negative feedback is left for the buyer. However, this automatic feedback can be removed by the seller. If you choose to use this cancellation method, I would advise that you remove the negative feedback, since allowing a minimum order value is a new update to Marketplace policy.

    Using one of the above order cancellations should work for you until we code in an option to enable a minimum order value in your Seller Settings.
  • seam-splitter over 3 years ago

    Thanks for the suggestions TashaH!
    The second way seems to be the way to go for now.
    Of course the negative feedback should be removed instantly by the seller since i assume that most buyers who may order a record below the minimum value just overlooked the seller terms.
    It would not be very nice to punish buyers with negative feedback just because they did not read the terms in detail.
  • mjb over 3 years ago

    TashaH
    We are not expecting you to figure out and state what the shipping would be for every situation you may encounter. If you would consider shipping to a region that you do not have a stated charge for, that is ok! You can address this in your Seller Terms by saying something like, "If you do not see a shipping charge for the region where you live, please contact me before placing your order so I can give you a shipping quote."


    I'm confused about this. The policy says that sellers must put regional shipping costs in their terms. It says incomplete terms can result in an "Item Unavailable" order cancellation by the buyer. I interpret this as meaning that if I leave the shipping cost for a region as "contact me first", then the terms are "incomplete" and are in violation of the policy. ...But then it also says that cancellation may happen if the seller accepts an order for a region without a stated shipping charge, which implies (like your post) that incomplete terms are actually OK.

    Also, this is unrelated, but on the shopping cart page on the website, if you click Sales & Transaction Policy (the link next to the checkbox where you say you agree that you've read the seller terms and the policy), you get what looks to me like it might be an old version of the policy. Has this text been reviewed to make sure it is still in sync with the actual policy?
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    mjb
    on the shopping cart page on the website, if you click Sales & Transaction Policy (the link next to the checkbox where you say you agree that you've read the seller terms and the policy), you get what looks to me like it might be an old version of the policy. Has this text been reviewed to make sure it is still in sync with the actual policy?


    Yes it is different and that is understandably confusing. We have a request in for development team to fix this. It should be updated soon.

    mjb
    The policy says that sellers must put regional shipping costs in their terms. It says incomplete terms can result in an "Item Unavailable" order cancellation by the buyer.


    It is not a Discogs violation to not have a shipping policy for every imaginable situation. However, we do ask that you disclose your shipping terms for places you commonly do ship to.

    In regards to this statement in the S&T Policy, "Incomplete Seller Terms can result in an order being cancelled due to Item Unavailable if requested by the buyer":

    This would occur if the buyer writes in to us to say that the seller has cancelled or is planning to cancel the order due to Non-Paying Buyer. That is when we would switch the reason for cancellation to Item Unavailable to make sure that the buyer is not punished with negative feedback for asking to cancel an order because the shipping (which was not stated in the Seller Terms) is higher than what they want to pay. As a seller in this situation, you are welcome to cancel the order as either Per Buyer's Request or Item Unavailable.
  • massenmedium over 3 years ago

    TashaH

    I've just noticed something that needs addressing ASAP.

    AFAICT the pop-up to display the Discogs sales & transaction policy when placing an order shows an OLD version of the policy! Certainly one prior to the March 1st update.
  • massenmedium over 3 years ago

    Which means that buyers clicking that before agreeing to it won't be seeing the new stuff about addresses, for instance.

    It also still says that minimum order requirements are not allowed.

    Apparently nobody reads these things but still ;-)
  • TashaH over 3 years ago

    Thanks for the report! I'm glad you were reading it :)

    I know we had this in the development queue to be updated - and the updated version shows in some circumstances - but I see what you are talking about. I will check in with the team to find out what is going on.
  • xxRecordsxx over 2 years ago

    TashaH
    Sellers who are watching this thread, are any of you planning on adding a minimum order requirement? If so, how much are you thinking?


    A bit late but I like to add some thoughts about it. Many pro sellers from Germany use a business form which is best translated as "small business". This kind of business has a yearly turnover limit. As the shipping costs are part of the turnover, it's impossible to send for example single EUR 4,- items international for EUR 8,- shipping costs all the time. This will blow the business, if the shipping costs which don't generate any income will get higher than the order value.
    So yes, I have to set a minimum order value in the nearest future.
  • xxRecordsxx over 2 years ago

    TashaH
    seam-splitterBut i am asking myself how to handle an incoming order below my accepted value.
    As long as it is not coded into the seller settings how should i react if someone orders a single 3.00€ record?

    Great question! As long as you have clearly stated in your Seller Terms what your minimum order requirement is, you can do one of the following:

    You can cancel the order as Per Buyer's Request.
    If you receive negative feedback from the buyer for doing this, you can file a Feedback Review Request and our team will remove the feedback - as long as that is the only reason why the feedback was left.

    You can cancel the order due to Non-Paying Buyer.
    While this prevents you from receiving any feedback for the order, it does mean that automatic negative feedback is left for the buyer. However, this automatic feedback can be removed by the seller. If you choose to use this cancellation method, I would advise that you remove the negative feedback, since allowing a minimum order value is a new update to Marketplace policy.

    Using one of the above order cancellations should work for you until we code in an option to enable a minimum order value in your Seller Settings.


    The second solution will not work, as I have to send an invoice first and wait 4 days to use the Non-paying buyer function. How can I send an invoice for an order which doesn't meet the minimum order requirements and hope it will not be paid, that just makes no sense.

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