Pressing Plant With IFPI KKxx As Mould SID Code?

Hi all, I've been noticing with the newly manufactured CD's from the past few years that they have a similar matrix appearance. It usually looks like this: (0000000) 000000000000 00 0000. It'll then have a pretty widely used Mastering SID Code, which is something like L247 or L779. But the most similar thing is the Mould SID Code, which will normally be IFPI KKBB or another 2 letter ending after the KK.

Would anybody have any idea who's the pressing plant behind these releases with that information? From what I can tell, it's not Arvato, Mexico or Technicolor, however a better clue I have is from a release I just bought with this same Mould SID Code had an ink stamp printed on the shrink wrap of "Disc Made In Mexico", so it's at least in Mexico where they're pressing all of these. When you just look up "IFPI KKBB" in search, it does bring up quite a few new releases that have that on it's release page information. So it must be relatively new.

The releases these appear on the most appear to just be for Universal Music Group & Warner Music Group releases.

For examples of what I'm talking about, here are some multi-disc releases that have a lot of that same information spread across all their discs.
The Cure - Mixed Up + Extras: Remixes 1982-1990 + Torn Down
Grateful Dead* - Dave's Picks, Volume 23 (McArthur Court, U. Of Oregon, Eugene, OR • 1/22/78)
Metallica - Master Of Puppets

I've seen this particular one as far back as 2009, view this Rolling Stones reissue for a single disc example: The Rolling Stones - Undercover

There also exists different matrix patterns with .'s but also have a lot of similar Mould and Mastering SID Code information: Cher - The Very Best Of Cher

In fact I believe that these are probably from Technicolor Mexicana in Guadalajara.

see https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/699750?page=2#7824881

and https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/699750?page=2#7830118

and https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/699750?page=2#7830360

Myriad Interesting! That proof you provided there in that thread is very convincing, and I can say from my experience at least that a lot of the newer CD's do seem to be manufactured by Technicolor. With the Denmark page you provided about the Mould SID Code information was helpful as well, and the Filmogs link to the Seabiscuit does help provide helpful information with both IDing the manufacturer and the same Mould SID Code.

From the information you've provided, I would certainly say that this appears to be the pressing plant for these releases with that Mould SID Code. If more people were to comment if they agreed with it or not, then we would be able to come to a consensus that this is the correct plant to credit in these cases. Then we probably would be able to beef up the page even more for Technicolor, with adding a Mould SID section rather than just Matrix / Mastering SID information.

Of course, I would love to hear others input so we get enough people on board to agree with this. I personally have 2 releases I would like to add the pressing information to that I own, but I would only want to do it if it's agreed upon and correct. Hopefully, this thread does not become lost in the Database forums.

Here’s another single disc example pressed in 2017, but this time with the Mastering SID Code that familiar IFPIL779, but it has a slightly different Mould code with IFPI KKGN. The Doors - The Doors

Oh and even better of what I just found in terms of the DVD pressings side of things as well, is that I went through my DVD collection looking for Universal brand movies and I remembered that I had made a Filmogs page for my copy of the James Brown Biopic, Get On Up! It not only has the Technicolor logo on the front of the disc (but not the packaging for some reason), it does have that Mould SID code pattern of IFPI KKxx! Exciting, and this more proves the case for Technicolor being the pressing plant for these releases.

Also Myriad, if it does end up being Technicolor being decided on as the pressing plant, what should it be credited as on here? Just Technicolor?

Hi WolfXCIX, we were just talking about that here : https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/719616?page=6#8111047

Similar to other stories were you find same plants that have had multiple owners over the years, as companies merge and acquisition each other.

Do note however, that there are still several other Mexican plants that we know about from our own list CD Manufacturing Companies List were we find companies like Cinram, Mexico/ Dipublim, S.A. De C.V./ Sony Music México/ Sonopress Arvato, Mexico/ and MDC Mexico.

It is easy to eliminate the ones we know the SID codes for, which leaves room to research more on the ones we don't.

OneObuyan Oh, how helpful! Glad I wasn’t the first to think about it.

I've been adding a few of the discs from my collection that have this combination of Mastering/Mould SID codes that aren't yet in the database. Here's a few things that I've noticed about them:

- As you mentioned in the first post, the majority of the CDs I've come across with this combination have the text "Disc Made in Mexico" stamped on the shrinkwrap, although I've come across quite a few which have it stamped right on the back of the jewel case as seen here: Wind & Wuthering. I've also seen releases that have a clear sticker with this information on them as well, usually digipaks.

- Many of the disc labels of CDs that are represses are edited to remove "Made in USA" text along with other potentially outdated information, although this can vary based on different releases. For example Never Mind The Bollocks Here's The Sex Pistols has it's disc label edited to remove both "Made in USA" and "Mfg. by WEA Manufacturing", yet In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida has "Made in USA" text removed but leaves "by WEA Manufacturing". All inserts still have "Printed in USA" text on them though.

As a side note, I also own quite a few DVD sets that feature the Technicolor logo on either the packaging and disc labels with the IFPI KK** Mould SID code. Most of these sets also feature the same "Disc Made in Mexico" text stamped or stickered on the shrinkwrap. For example my now OOP DVD set of Battlestar Galactica, which has Technicolor on the disc labels and KK** SID codes, has the same "Disc Made in Mexico" sticker on the back of package that my CD copy of Never Say Die! has. Seems like pretty good proof to me that these releases are coming from Technicolor's factory in Mexico.

Mattfrie1 I also have many DVD’s that have that, but it doesn’t confirm it. The people on here and the forum thread linked above have been researching this for quite a while now but have not been able to confirm it.

Ah, interesting. Glad to hear that there are others here interested in this.

another couple of releases that have the same matrix pattern:
Temple Of The Dog - Temple Of The Dog
Grateful Dead* - The Very Best Of Grateful Dead

... and the US CD version of Pearl Jam - Gigaton

Ahoy ~ came across this thread while researching a release with the following:
Mastering SID Code IFPI L247,
Mould SID Code IFPI KK7H
and “DISC MADE IN MEXICO” on the shrink-wrap.
This information comes from Kiss - Love Gun, a submission I made about two and a half weeks ago, which I (foolishly) came back to because I got to wondering about who the exact manufacturer of this release is? Possibly Cinram, Mexico or Technicolor?
The absence of any other logos or identifiers makes for acid indigestion and headache...
AARGH!
As mentioned above, I too have been coming across these codes since going through my collection (IN MY SPARE TIME HA HA).
I have refrained from making additions because I have not yet verified the information.
Just nice to know that I am not the only aspirant.
“DILIGENCE! DILIGENCE!”

Found this release interesting:

Evanescence - Anywhere But Home

Matrix / Runout (CD): 681505 DIDX1083013 01 0001
Mastering SID Code (CD): IFPI L328
Mould SID Code (CD): IFPI KK7H
Matrix / Runout (DVD): (679269) DVDL7068380 02 0001 (679268) DVDL7068380 03 0101
Mastering SID Code (DVD): IFPI L779
Mould SID Code (DVD): IFPI KKTX

Typical Sony DADC mastering SID code along with DIDX number on the CD. Wonder if Technicolor mex perhaps aquired Sony DADC's equipment when that plant closed?

Myriad A multi-plant release, and since it was half pressed by Sony DADC you would think they would do both, but no. Weird, thanks for sharing!

WolfXCIX
Myriad A multi-plant release, and since it was half pressed by Sony DADC you would think they would do both, but no. Weird, thanks for sharing!

Both discs have mould SID KK** so doesn't look like Sony DADC did any pressing. The matrix pattern "681505 DIDX1083013 01 0001" matches *Technicolor Mexico* glass masters perfectly, where the DIDX number is usually replaced by the release cat#:

681505 DIDX1083013 01 0001
(945828) 602557932454 01 0001 - Metallica - Master Of Puppets
(1024466) 3.4.570803.SA.1 01 0001 - The Cure - Mixed Up + Extras: Remixes 1982-1990 + Torn Down

which is why I think it's possible that this glass master was acquired from Sony DADC by Technicolor after Sony DADC ended CD manufacturing in the US

To chime in on this, over the past several months I've come across two CDs which appear to be reusing Sony DADC glass masters which carry mould SID codes with IFPI KK** and are formatted with a matrix and Mastering SID Codes matching these potential Technicolor Mexico releases.

One of the releases is based on this reissue of Booker T. & The M.G.'s* - McLemore Avenue.
The Matrix info on this disc is:
(1107372) DIDX 729830 01 0001
Mastering SID Code: IFPI LV77
Mould SID Code: IFPI KKBB

The Matrix info on these discs is formatted in the same way and with the same font style as the releases I posted earlier on in this thread (i.e. Sex Pistols - Never Mind The Bollocks Here's The Sex Pistols) unlike that Evanescence release posted above, but DOES have "Disc Made in Mexico" stamped onto the jewel case and "Made in USA" removed from the disc label.

I've also noticed a number of albums lately with this Mould SID Code that are formatted similarly to discs glass mastered at Cinram, Olyphant, PA, even including the M*S* code. I picked up a copy of Fresh Cream in my local record store today which had "Disc Made in Mexico" stamped onto the shrink wrap and has the "Made in USA" text removed from the disc label. Matrix info on the disc is:
A9 UME 3145318102-2 AG01 M0S1
Mastering SID Code: IFPI LT40
Mould SID Code: IFPI KKNP

It's my guess that this plant is either using old glass masters that were pressed at Cinram Olyphant or if it is indeed Technicolor behind this that the Olyphant machinery has finally been moved to the Mexican pressing plant.

Mattfrie1
To chime in on this, over the past several months I've come across two CDs which appear to be reusing Sony DADC glass masters which carry mould SID codes with IFPI KK** and are formatted with a matrix and Mastering SID Codes matching these potential Technicolor Mexico releases.

Just to clarify, it wouldn't be a Sony DADC glass master despite having the DIDX number present since it doesn't have the usualy Sony DADC mastering SIDS (L32*/L33*/L42*) but the IFPI LV** code that apparently belongs to this mystery plant. (DIDX in matrix = DADC/Sony DADC glass master is a bit of an oversimplication that we've made although it is seemingly true 99% of the time).

Mattfrie1
The Matrix info on this disc is:
(1107372) DIDX 729830 01 0001
Mastering SID Code: IFPI LV77
Mould SID Code: IFPI KKBB

Is most probably a new glass master and pressing that has chosen to retain the DIDX matrix number for some reason.

Mattfrie1
It's my guess that this plant is either using old glass masters that were pressed at Cinram Olyphant or if it is indeed Technicolor behind this that the Olyphant machinery has finally been moved to the Mexican pressing plant.

Interesting example! Either way, it does make sense that the KK** mould SID codes belong to Technicolor since they are co-occuring with Olyphant glass masters that were also manufactured under Technicolor

I just added both the releases I mentioned in my last post to the database:

Booker T. & The M.G.'s* - McLemore Avenue
Cream (2) - Fresh Cream

I've got several more I scanned in earlier today that I will be adding to the database over the next few days. I've left the pressing information blank until we come to a consensus on how to approach this issue.

I'm probably about ready to create a new release, I found this thread interesting. A few of my CDs have a MADE IN MEXICO stamp on the case but I honestly thought nothing of them. This particular one, does have the stamp "DISC MADE IN MEXCO".

Here's the information:
Artist: Def Leppard
Album: Yeah!
Matrix/Runout: (551401) B0005340-02 03 0207
Mastering SID Code: IFPI LV77
Mould SID Code: KK4I

Luckily, all of the pictures look identical to Yeah! so I may just grab them from there.

CartmansPiehole
Luckily, all of the pictures look identical to Yeah! so I may just grab them from there.

Actually it's recommended not to take any images from submissions and copy them to your own. Only photos or scans from the exact pressing can be uploaded

CartmansPiehole
Luckily, all of the pictures look identical to Yeah! so I may just grab them from there.

Myriad
Actually it's recommended not to take any images from submissions and copy them to your own.

Not only is it not recommended, it's explicitly banned by RSG §13.1.8.

Well, I guess I found a unicorn. Various - The Original Latin Kings Of Comedy has "Technicolor" in the matrix, and "MADE IN MEXICO" stamped in the mould (innermost ring, on the label side). I would say it's indisputable that at least this pressing was made in the Technicolor Mexico plant.

So I went ahead and created a label for Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico.

Mastering SID Code: IFPI L780
Mould SID Code: IFPI KK**

Let's continue the discussion!

star_man_20
Well, I guess I found a unicorn. Various - The Original Latin Kings Of Comedy has "Technicolor" in the matrix, and "MADE IN MEXICO" stamped in the mould (innermost ring, on the label side). I would say it's indisputable that at least this pressing was made in the Technicolor Mexico plant.

Very cool! I would be on board for that type of IFPI KKxx code type to be credited to Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico. But, let's hear some more opinions on this fist.

Have you checked this page: http://wiki.redump.org/index.php?title=List_of_SID_codes

I don't know how often it is updated or how reliable it is, but at least it provides some validation for your conclusion.

Though the link can't be checked anymore, but I remember the pic had TECHNICOLOR in the matrix (DVD) with the same pattern and IFPI KK**

https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/699750?page=2#7830118

theksmusik
Though the link can't be checked anymore, but I remember the pic had TECHNICOLOR in the matrix (DVD) with the same pattern and IFPI KK**

https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/699750?page=2#7830118

I do recall seeing that as well.

I found this around that time too (though it's mainly about DVDs, CDs were mention incidentally)
It mentions another US closure and the one in Wales and about them centralizing mfg in Guadalajara in No. America
http://www.dvd-and-beyond.com/display-article.php?article=1199
Just some added background. I'm sure there is more that can be found out for those that are better at it than me.

theksmusik
Though the link can't be checked anymore, but I remember the pic had TECHNICOLOR in the matrix (DVD) with the same pattern and IFPI KK**

WolfXCIX
I do recall seeing that as well.

https://www.discogs.com/release/21325795-Various-The-Original-Latin-Kings-Of-Comedy/image/SW1hZ2U6NzAyMTU3NzU=

https://www.discogs.com/release/21325795-Various-The-Original-Latin-Kings-Of-Comedy/image/SW1hZ2U6NzAyMTU3Njk=

Right star_man_20, but we were referring to the Sea Biscuit Filmogs page that had the Technicolor logo in the matrix information before Filmogs as a whole got taken down. And if I can recall correctly, it did look nearly identical to the images of the matrix you uploaded for your Latin Kings page.

I unfortunately do not have a copy of Sea Biscuit (or really a similar DVD, strangely) that has similar looking information. It seems to be one specific time frame that they were pressing their name into the disc matrix. It is valuable information nonetheless!

But it's cool star_man_20 found and posted those. Which I'm sure he did to provide some currently-available verifiable images.
kbell75 sorry for the ping, but you might be interested in this thread. You had posted a link to filmogs 3 years ago showing the matrix of Seabiscuit DVD, more clearly (as I seem to remember) showing TECHNICOLOR in the matrix in releation to Mould SID IFPI KK**. Maybe you still have that image and can post a link from an image sharing site?

theksmusik
Which I'm sure he did to provide some currently-available verifiable images.

Exactly. :)

For those who may have not discovered this, Technicolor sometimes, not unlike The ADS Group sometimes does, moulds their Mould SID on the label side adjacent the center hole, which isn't really visible from the data side. Technicolor's, however, are sometimes smaller. I've had to used 30x, sometimes 60x magnitication to discern the individual letters (like is that KKRN or KKPN?), as they also appear somewhat squashed into each other.

[I bought this www.amazon.com/gp/product/B087X2YVF2/ but received the 30/60/90 version; later a branded model www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019UYLIYI/ getting the advertised 10/20/30]

To help lend more evidence to the Guadalajara theory, I have recently bought 2 new Stax CD's in the past month. On both of these that I've had to submit, they have the IFPI KKxx codes' and "DISC MADE IN MEXICO" ink stamped over the back of the jewel case. That would mean they're definitely made in Mexico.

I would not know where to look for further information on how to prove that it is indeed coming from this plant. But I thought I would share these two as well: Isaac Hayes - Double Feature & Isaac Hayes - Live At The Sahara Tahoe

Also, if you go to Technicolor's website, you'll see that they only have 3 plants worldwide: Mexico, Australia and Poland
https://www.technicolor.com/distribute/manufacturing-locations

theksmusik
Also, if you go to Technicolor's website, you'll see that they only have 3 plants worldwide: Mexico, Australia and Poland
https://www.technicolor.com/distribute/manufacturing-locations

Very helpful! However, we now have two examples of Technicolor pressed DVD's that have their logo on it and the IFPI KKxx codes. However, has anyone seen a CD that has both this same IFPI KKxx code with the Technicolor logo? Because these other examples we have almost all say they were pressed in Mexico, but do not have the Technicolor name pressed in the CD matrix. And I'm not sure how we can prove it otherwise.

Unfortunately, no. [If you're interested, in this thread I listed those releases I had at that time with IFPI KK** (I guess I got carried away), but none with the Technicolor name].
But then again, DVDs with same pattern and the same SID Codes, is evidence. Seems unlikely Technicolor owns those Codes only for DVDs, and someone else for CDs. Is there any evidence for older CDs pressed at Guadalajara, maybe not for the US market? The plant existed before the US closures. Don't know how to really use the advance search (I'm not got at good at, what's it called? Is it RegEx? or something like that).

Oh, Technicolor/CA also has those (xxxxxx) numbers. I've seen some subs with TECHNICOLOR/CA moulded in the hub. Doesn't seem to be mentioned on the Technicolor profile. It was just recently, dang it.

Found it, it's one I own, BT - This Binary Universe, the accompanying DVD also has a similar stamped number, but 6 digits. Of course, different plant, different SIDs.

[edit: correct mould text]

From Forum Thread #824040, scroll down click TECHNICOLOR/CA goes to this search string (this is what I don't know how to do):
https://www.discogs.com/search/?type=release&matrix=TECHNICOLOR/CA&layout=med&format_exact=CD
And only the release that I own is the one that has similar pattern. Maybe someone who knows how to do that type of search can find more like This Binary Universe to help provide more examples. Seems for now, at least, we need some amount of preponderance of evidence.

I''m googling "site:discogs "TECHNICOLOR/CA" (that's how I found that thread):
CD with (xxxxxx) release-cat#: MTV Unplugged In New York, Beside You only variant 1
DVD (xxxxxx) release-cat# yyyyyy-stamped#: Beside You (obviously dual layer DVD, matrix layers run together though)

I need to take a break.

So, not all at the /CA location have the same pattern, but it does show that Technicolor has at least used a similar one before.

[edit: changed (DVD) 2nd # to yyyyyy to make it clear it's a different number than in ()]

Is it OK if I start crediting Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico on all the CDs from my collection that have Mould SID code "IFPI KK##" and that kind of matrix structure? I've got quite a few from the last few years.

Which credit role should we use? Pressed By? Glass Mastered At?
Do we need to add any catalog number?

Thx

HoliestKaty
Is it OK if I start crediting Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico on all the CDs from my collection that have Mould SID code "IFPI KK##" and that kind of matrix structure? I've got quite a few from the last few years.

I would advise you not to for now. We need some more concrete proof before we start doing so.

WolfXCIX
I would advise you not to for now. We need some more concrete proof before we start doing so.

Okay, thanks :) I'll keep an eye on this thread

Hi antmassam55 please read the last replies in this thread, I see you've started to credit this pressing plant in some releases :)

There's enough evidence that discs with the Mould SID code IFPI KK## are pressed at the Techicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico plant. The discussion is still ongoing regarding where the glass masters were made. It's not yet clear if they're re-using old glass masters from other companies, or have inherited other equipment and keeping that equipment's mastering profile.

However Google Street View shows that the Technicolor plant has been at that location since at least 2009. So it's in keeping with discs pressed since approx 2017/2018 when I first started noticing the IFPI KK## SID codes and when the Technicolor plant closed in the USA. Therefore I would say it is fine to credit in LCCN as Pressed By Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico but no cat# should be added.

antmassam55
Therefore I would say it is fine to credit in LCCN as Pressed By Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico but no cat# should be added.

Maybe there is, as there was some great examples provided above with the DVD’s. We also saw an example of a USA Technicolor plant using similar information on it (Nirvana’s “Unplugged”). Although I do not believe we have not seen a CD (rather than a DVD) specifically that has both “Technicolor” and that mould SID information on a release with “Made In Mexico” on it.

I am unsure if there is enough information yet to credit the Guadalajara plant yet for these releases. Additional opinions on this matter will be greatly appreciated.

antmassam55
There's enough evidence that discs with the Mould SID code IFPI KK## are pressed at the Techicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico plant. The discussion is still ongoing regarding where the glass masters were made. It's not yet clear if they're re-using old glass masters from other companies, or have inherited other equipment and keeping that equipment's mastering profile.

However Google Street View shows that the Technicolor plant has been at that location since at least 2009. So it's in keeping with discs pressed since approx 2017/2018 when I first started noticing the IFPI KK## SID codes and when the Technicolor plant closed in the USA. Therefore I would say it is fine to credit in LCCN as Pressed By Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico but no cat# should be added.

+1

antmassam55
I would say it is fine to credit in LCCN as Pressed By Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico but no cat# should be added.

+1

Bumping for additional input.

antmassam55
Therefore I would say it is fine to credit in LCCN as Pressed By Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico but no cat# should be added.

At this stage I think I would agree, but we will need firm instructions on the profile. has already added the following:

"Identified by Mould SID code "IFPI KK##" and sometimes "Made in Mexico" stamped in the mould."

But I think a bit of discussion about the matrix pattern with the bracketed part etc would be useful as well to make clear that we aren't crediting the plant solely by a mould SID code.

Myriad
But I think a bit of discussion about the matrix pattern with the bracketed part etc would be useful as well to make clear that we aren't crediting the plant solely by a mould SID code.

I agree

I think a couple more should be enough then, as we currently have 5 yes responses. The reason why I say this is because there are quite a few CD's on Discogs right now that have this similar format, and it would most likely result in a mass edit.

I do also agree with what Myriad had to say about firm instructions for the profile. Maybe we could do something with the part in the parenthesis as the catalog number (take for instance "(681252)" on Live At The Sahara Tahoe). But we can discuss the specifics soon.

Myriad
"Identified by Mould SID code "IFPI KK##" and sometimes "Made in Mexico" stamped in the mould."

You really think these two are enough to add LCCN Pressed By and circumvent the explicite instruction in RSG §5.2.d However, SID codes should not be used to identify manufacturing plants or glass mastering facilities as the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and / or pressplant.?

typoman2
You really think these two are enough to add LCCN Pressed By and circumvent the explicite instruction in RSG §5.2.d However, SID codes should not be used to identify manufacturing plants or glass mastering facilities as the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and / or pressplant.?

That is a good point.

One thing I should say that I actually happened to come across yesterday was a copy of Seabiscuit on DVD. I did see that it had the IFPI KKxx SID code in the mould, and it did say "Made In Mexico" on the center ring. However, there was not a mention of Technicolor in the matrix information. Come to think of it, I couldn't see a mention of Technicolor on the DVD insert either (here is a picture of it).

typoman2
You really think these two are enough to add LCCN Pressed By and circumvent the explicite instruction in RSG §5.2.d However, SID codes should not be used to identify manufacturing plants or glass mastering facilities as the codes may transfer from owner to owner of the equipment and / or pressplant.?

No. I said this just above:

Myriad
But I think a bit of discussion about the matrix pattern with the bracketed part etc would be useful as well to make clear that we aren't crediting the plant solely by a mould SID code.

Myriad
Both discs have mould SID KK** so doesn't look like Sony DADC did any pressing. The matrix pattern "681505 DIDX1083013 01 0001" matches *Technicolor Mexico* glass masters perfectly, where the DIDX number is usually replaced by the release cat#:

681505 DIDX1083013 01 0001
(945828) 602557932454 01 0001 - Metallica - Master Of Puppets
(1024466) 3.4.570803.SA.1 01 0001 - The Cure - Mixed Up

which is why I think it's possible that this glass master was acquired from Sony DADC by Technicolor after Sony DADC ended CD manufacturing in the US

mentioned in part in this Billboard article https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/cds-out-of-stock-manufacturing-moved-mexico-eminem-lil-wayne-8483294/#!

oceanographer
mentioned in part in this Billboard article https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/cds-out-of-stock-manufacturing-moved-mexico-eminem-lil-wayne-8483294/#!

Great link ocean. I think that that really confirms 100% that we're right about Technicolor Mexico. We can pick up basically any UMG release since 2018 and find IFPI KK**, and that article tells us that Technicolor Mexico has been manufacturing for UMG in this time.

I've just made a big update to Technicolor, Guadalajara, Mexico to discuss some history/context of the plant and also outline the general matrix pattern. This way we aren't suggesting that the plant is credited solely by a mould SID code as discouraged by the guidelines.

I do wonder whether the bracketed (AAAAAA) number may be sequential but can't be bothered to look into that rn.

Input/opinions/suggestions welcome :) ping list: WolfXCIX typoman2 HoliestKaty star_man_20 anthonyburchette antmassam55 andrenafulva

That definitely is a good article oceanographer for sure, and is in keeping with when I recall seeing the IFPI KK** Mould SID codes.

I like the update Myriad has made to the profile page, but would also feel some comment should be added to indicate that the plant has used other plant's glass masters, but were pressed in Mexico. Or the numbers after the brackets are not always just the cat#. For example, Breaking Benjamin - Dear Agony I've often seen something similar to the 72 1122 in releases with the KK** Mould SID code.

As an extra addition to the page, every release I've seen with these codes has "DISC MADE IN MEXICO" printed on the shrinkwrap, or in a small number of cases, directly on the jewel case back. Whilst that's not something that will obviously be used to identify second-hand releases or ones where the submitter has thrown away the shrinkwrap, it would help with identification for new, unopened releases.

Fantastic update to the profile!

Myriad
I do wonder whether the bracketed (AAAAAA) number may be sequential

This has been suggested multiple times previously, actually. I suspect that it is myself. The (AAAAAA) pattern has been used at multiple North American Technicolor plants (like Technicolor/CA and Technicolor Olyphant), suggesting these plants shared a central database for masters made, similar to DADC. (Of note: Technicolor Universal Media Services does not appear to have used the same matrix pattern.)

Here's something to mine for info: http://www.dvd-and-beyond.com/display-article.php?article=1199 (Story filed 18.01.07)

""Technicolor has announced a restructuring program that will impact several North American sites,” said company spokesman Tom Bracken. While some packaging and distribution jobs are being moved to plants in Canada, Tennessee and Michigan, manufacturing will be centralized in the company's existing location in Guadalajara, Mexico." (bolded for emphasis from me.)

"Manufacturing at Technicolor's principal location in Camarillo, California, will be "significantly" scaled back, impacting some 640 staff. A future 70 positions in the Memphis plant will be axed."

Looks like the Mexico plant existed prior to 2007. And a MEMPHIS plant!?!?!?!

star_man_20

Looks like the Mexico plant existed prior to 2007.

Google Maps has a streetview of it dated in 2009. Interesting to see it was there at least a couple of years prior to that too.

antmassam55
As an extra addition to the page, every release I've seen with these codes has "DISC MADE IN MEXICO" printed on the shrinkwrap, or in a small number of cases, directly on the jewel case back. Whilst that's not something that will obviously be used to identify second-hand releases or ones where the submitter has thrown away the shrinkwrap, it would help with identification for new, unopened releases.

I was just about to mention this haha. It might be useful for some people that's for sure. As you said, it is usually printed on the rear shrink wrap. I do own some releases that have it printed directly on the rear of the jewel case / on the rear of the amaray DVD case.

--
IMO it might also be useful to mention in the page which LCCN role to use for this plant.

Regarding those (AAAAAA) numbers, I have no idea what they could be, I'm no expert in this field but I'm interested to find out.

I do really like the update you did to the profile, Myriad. Great job! Only thing I could think of adding beside that is on the last line where it says "Other: "Made in Mexico", maybe we could add that this phrase is also sometimes ink stamped on the shrink wrap over the back cover of the new CD's?

star_man_20 Thanks for supplying that other article! I see that this came from a sight called "DVD And Beyond". I have not heard of them before, and I can't say that I would trust the legitimacy right away of it like I would a Billboard article. How credible are they?

antmassam55
but would also feel some comment should be added to indicate that the plant has used other plant's glass masters, but were pressed in Mexico.

any examples of this?

star_man_20
Looks like the Mexico plant existed prior to 2007. And a MEMPHIS plant!?!?!?!

From what I've gathered I believe the Mexico plant was actually acquired by Technicolor in 2002 (see the profile update to Technicolor Guad.)

Myriad
antmassam55but would also feel some comment should be added to indicate that the plant has used other plant's glass masters, but were pressed in Mexico.
any examples of this?

I'm going through releases in my collection to find them. I do recall seeing it, but can't remember which. I will post here if I can find them.

Ghost (32) - Prequelle
This has a matrix (1022141) DIDX1091296 02 0001.
It could be the DIDX I recall which is making me think it's from another manufacturer. I'm still looking for others.

HoliestKaty
IMO it might also be useful to mention in the page which LCCN role to use for this plant.

Good suggestion, thanks. I've suggested Pressed By for now since there are a whole slog of mastering SID codes (most probably from the various other US/CAN Technicolor plants as they closed and were transferred to Mexico), but it could be a lot more complex...

WolfXCIX
Thanks for supplying that other article! I see that this came from a sight called "DVD And Beyond". I have not heard of them before, and I can't say that I would trust the legitimacy right away of it like I would a Billboard article. How credible are they?

Honestly I've used that site heaps in the past for profile updates. Never looked into the legitimacy of it but they seem to have been pretty active in documenting these changes in the industry. Shame they seem to have gone inactive now

Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
This one though I think should be split into separate submissions (I don't want to digress to far for the topic of this thread)

Also:

https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1769698/posts (of a no-longer-available article from https://www.pe.com/ap_news/California/CA_BRF_SoCal_Technicolor_Layoffs_271433C.shtml)

2005 mention of the TNC MX plant. Can't find anything prior to that at the moment.

An article Myriad shared 2 years ago in the Technicolor RN: https://cvillenews.com/2002/10/21/technicolor-moving-to-mexico/

I think it would be good to update the TNC MX profile with the above history: acquired from the PDSC/Kodak purchase in 2002, shifts in production in 2003 and 2007 when other plants were closed, etc.

antmassam55
Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
This one though I think should be split into separate submissions (I don't want to digress to far for the topic of this thread)

Yeah, that one probably has variant 1 made by Technicolor US and then the followign variants all made by Technicolor Mex.

antmassam55
Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
This one though I think should be split into separate submissions (I don't want to digress to far for the topic of this thread)

+1

Sorry getting back late. Just got off work.

Thanks oceanographer for posting that!

This is great news. Great work on the profile page Myriad

antmassam55
Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath
This one though I think should be split into separate submissions (I don't want to digress to far for the topic of this thread)

I agree. Huntsville??

So as of now (since 2018) they have facilities in Huntsville, Mexico, Poland and Melbourne, Australia. Correct?

https://www.discogs.com/label/2526427-Technicolor-Guadalajara-Mexico seems to be all the eggs in one basket.

many thanks to Myriad for the work on the Technicolor Guadalajara profile.

anthonyburchette
So as of now (since 2018) they have facilities in Huntsville,

Huntsville closed in either 2018 or 2020.

https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/921832

star_man_20
anthonyburchetteSo as of now (since 2018) they have facilities in Huntsville,

Huntsville closed in either 2018 or 2020.

https://www.discogs.com/forum/thread/921832

Thank you

Thinking about the glass mastering a little further...
The codes LT36 and LT40 were used by Cinram. As has been documented, this was sold to Technicolor in the past decade or so. Which means they likely inherited machines that utilised those SID codes more so than reusing other plants' glass masters.

antmassam55
The codes LT36 and LT40 were used by Cinram. As has been documented, this was sold to Technicolor in the past decade or so.

Those, plus L247, originated at Cinram's Canadian plant(s), then were moved to Olyphant. Technicolor bought Cinram in 2015, and shut down Olyphant in 2018. If those SIDs are showing up with KK**, it is a logical deduction that Technicolor moved the LBR equipment to Mexico after closing Olyphant.

That makes sense. And is likely what was initially causing my confusion with thinking they were using glass masters from other plants, when really it's just the machines that moved to Mexico.

antmassam55
That makes sense. And is likely what was initially causing my confusion with thinking they were using glass masters from other plants, when really it's just the machines that moved to Mexico.

Yeah. I think we can/should assume that if the old Cinram mastering SID codes appear with the Technicolor Mexico matrix pattern of (AAAAAA) [cat#] BB CCCC then it's a newer glass master most probably manufactured in Mexico.

Some interesting DVDs I've come across with variants manufactured in US vs Mexico by Technicolor

Various - Punk-O-Rama Vol. 9
Matrix / Runout (DVD Variant 1): (232688) DV-86716-9 03 0102
Matrix / Runout (DVD innerring Variant 1): MADE IN MEXICO
Mastering SID Code (DVD Variant 1): IFPI L779
Mould SID Code (DVD Variant 1): IFPI KK12A
Matrix / Runout (DVD Variant 2): (232688) DV-86716-9 02 0103
Matrix / Runout (DVD innerring Variant 2): TECHNICOLOR / CA
Mastering SID Code (DVD Variant 2): IFPI L893
Mould SID Code (DVD Variant 2): IFPI 2TSE

(worth splitting in two submissions)

The Dillinger Escape Plan - Miss Machine
Matrix / Runout (DVD (Variant 1)): (237274) DV-RLP-6589-2 02 0103
Mastering SID Code (DVD (Variant 1)): IFPI L779
Mould SID Code (DVD (Variant 1)): IFPI KKOD

The Dillinger Escape Plan - Miss Machine
Matrix / Runout (DVD): (237274) DV-RLP-6589-2 0000
Mastering SID Code (DVD): IFPI L894
Mould SID Code (DVD, disc data side): IFPI 2TSY
Mould SID Code (DVD, disc face side): IFPI 2TSP
Other (DVD, moulded on both sides of the plastic hub): TECHNICOLOR/CA

It's a nice example of the continuity of the (AAAAAA) [cat#] BB CCCC matrix pattern that was seemingly inherited from Technicolor's CA plant. Also of note is that we do allow the (AAAAAA) number in LCCN for Technicolor where it does indeed seem to be chronological, although I'm not certain that the recent Technicolor Mexico numbers are sequential (or else, the 5xxxxx, 6xxxxx, 9xxxxx, 10xxxxx, etc. schemes might run parallel to each other and could be used eg one for Warner, one Sony, one Universal, etc.

I agree that variant 2 of Various - Punk-O-Rama Vol. 9 should be split off into a separate submission.

I would certainly like to see more evidence as to whether the (AAAAAA) is sequential or assigned by some other methodology.
Sadly I am too busy with work at present, but if someone with a lot of free time would be interested in collating these (AAAAAA) numbers with the CDs' release date, it may give an indication one way or the other.

antmassam55
I would certainly like to see more evidence as to whether the (AAAAAA) is sequential or assigned by some other methodology.

This one might be useful - there does appear to be ascending numerical order, but not contiguous for some reason; I believe I was discussing this with Myriad via PM because I wanted to credit Technicolor, MX but the evidence was circumstantial (e.g. SID codes, prev. box sets issued 18mos earlier made at Cinram too). The box set does have a sticker indicating that discs are made in Mexico. I presume the discs must have been produced in Sept or Oct 2017 at the latest to meet the Nov release date (vinyl was pressed in Germany, box sets needed to be assembled at Furnace, I think).

Metallica - Master Of Puppets

Mastering SID Code (CD1, CD4-CD9): IFPI L247
Mastering SID Code (CD2): IFPI LT40
Mastering SID Code (CD3, CD10, DVD1, DVD2): IFPI LT36
Matrix / Runout (CD1): (648166) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.1 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD2): 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.2 TEXT AG01
Matrix / Runout (CD3): 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.3 TEXT AF01
Matrix / Runout (CD4): (648205) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.4 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD5): (648208) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.5 TEXT 02 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD6): (648210) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.6 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD7): (648212) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.7 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD8): (648215) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.8 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD9): (648217) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.9 TEXT 01 0001
Matrix / Runout (CD10): 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.10 TEXT AF01
Matrix / Runout (DVD1): 3 ND05RD.1.B VF01 3 ND05RD.1.A VF01
Matrix / Runout (DVD2): 3 ND05RD.2.B VF01 3 ND05RD.2.A VF01

I am curious as to how the numbers are assigned. It's definitely not entirely sequential and in increasing numerical order, although it does appear at first glance to be that way.

Going through my collection, and archived database of purchases, I came across Disturbed - Live At Red Rocks, which I purchased early 2017. With a Matrix of (698465) 1 557998-2 TEXT 01 0001 this is not in sequence with the above Metallica pressings.

I'm beginning to suspect that (AAAAAA) is an internal job assignment number, that's unique, but not necessarily ordered between releases.

antmassam55
I'm beginning to suspect that (AAAAAA) is an internal job assignment number, that's unique, but not necessarily ordered between releases.

Yes, I feel the same way. I remember someone saying in another old thread (maybe even up earlier in this one) that they hypothesised that the first digit might indicate the intended market or origin of the purchasing label (eg 5xxxxx = Mexico, 6xxxxx = US or Can, 7xxxxx = US or Can) but I haven't looked into that

antmassam55
early 2017. With a Matrix of (698465) 1 557998-2 TEXT 01 0001 this is not in sequence with the above Metallica pressings.

Perhaps it's worth noting that the 'Master Of Puppets' remaster deluxe box set was originally scheduled for Nov 2016: the first two remaster deluxe box sets were released in April 2016 and made at Cinram, Olyphant, and this one was supposed to follow 6-7 mos later....but instead they released a new album, pushing MOP out by a year.

It could be that it was all printed up and sat on the shelf, or that the internal cat # / job ID (or whatever it's called) was already assigned.

Here are two other editions of the MOP remaster: single CD and 3xCD. On the latter, we can see 'consecutive' assignment of numbers, albeit even numbers only. Interestingly the CD1 of the deluxe box set and the single CD have the same base cat #: BLK1 ND05RD-2.1 (=Blackened 05 [=Master Of Puppets] RD = remaster, deluxe 2.1 = CD format, disc 1), but different (AAAAAA)...

Metallica - Master Of Puppets
Matrix / Runout (Variant 1): (647646) 3 BLK1 ND05RD-2.1 TEXT 04 0103
Mastering SID Code (Variant 1): IFPI L779
Mould SID Code (Variant 1): IFPI KGPL

Metallica - Master Of Puppets
Matrix / Runout (CD1, Variant 1): (647790) 3 BLK1 ND005N-2.1 TEXT 03 0102
Matrix / Runout (CD2, Variant 1): (647792) 3 BLK1 ND005N-2.2 TEXT 03 0103
Matrix / Runout (CD3, Variant 1): (647794) 3 BLK1 ND005N-2.3 TEXT 04 0204
Mastering SID Code (CD1,CD2 & CD3; all Variants): IFPI L779
Mould SID Code (CD1, Variant 1): IFPI KK41

Myriad
I remember someone saying in another old thread (maybe even up earlier in this one) that they hypothesised that the first digit might indicate the intended market or origin of the purchasing label (eg 5xxxxx = Mexico, 6xxxxx = US or Can, 7xxxxx = US or Can) but I haven't looked into that

I'm now seeing in latest releases 7 digits in the brackets that begin (10AAAAA), which leads me to suspect it's an internal reference number for the order. Possibly somewhat sequential, but not exactly based on release date. Perhaps when the order for manufacturing was initially received?

I've also seen different cases where the IFPI KK** is easily legible stamped on the inner clear ring, and other times it is microscopic on the very edge of the inner hub. Almost to the point that it's only readable with a magnifying glass.

I am glad that we are moving on to identifying matrix patterns now. However, have we seen a CD release that mentions both Technicolor and has the IFPI KK** codes on it? Or are we saying this because Technicolor's only one other CD pressing plant in Mexico besides Arvato, Mexico? I would just like to have some more clarification before I start adding credits for the plant myself.

WolfXCIX
However, have we seen a CD release that mentions both Technicolor and has the IFPI KK** codes on it?

Various - The Original Latin Kings Of Comedy

Myriad
WolfXCIXHowever, have we seen a CD release that mentions both Technicolor and has the IFPI KK** codes on it?
Various - The Original Latin Kings Of Comedy

Technically, that's a DVD. But we do have a release with the trifecta of Technicolor, "Made in Mexico", and a KK** Mould SID.

star_man_20
Technically, that's a DVD.

Not that the format makes a difference. Any optical disc showing Technicolor in the matrix with "Made in Mexico" and IFPI KK** will lead to the same conclusion, as you said. It being a DVD makes no difference.

Myriad
Not that the format makes a difference.

That's fair. But for arguments sake, what are the examples of CD's (not DVD's) that have Technicolor & the IFPI KK** code on them? And I would not be referring to the ones that have "TECHNICOLOR/CA" sourced from the California plant on the disc moulds, but ones from the Guadalajara plant.

WolfXCIX
But for arguments sake, what are the examples of CD's (not DVD's) that have Technicolor & the IFPI KK** code on them?

None that I know of, but why do there need to be any?

Myriad
None that I know of, but why do there need to be any?

I was asking for the reason that if there is anyone who has doubts that the Guadalaraja plant is pressing these releases or not, that there would be specific examples to point to in terms of CD's rather than DVD's. As nearly all the releases that will be linked to the plant's page will be CD's, it would be helpful to have a few good examples of both Technicolor & the IFPI KK** code being on a CD release together. The last thing I would want to happen is to have all the great investigative work we have done here be under scrutiny.

I know it's a small sampling to take results from, but here are my TNC CA & TNC MX pressings and the # in ():
Matrix ★ Year ◆ Format ● Plant ★ Mastering SID Release #
118498 ★ 1997 ◆ CD ● CA ★ L892 Christopher Franke - Babylon 5 Volume 2: Messages From Earth
174649 ★ 2000 ◆ CD ● CA ★ L891 The Police - Every Breath You Take (The Classics)
202052 ★ 2003 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Various - The Original Latin Kings Of Comedy
223502 ★ Note 2 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L779 Inner layer of Live: Runteldat
225227 ★ Note 2 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Outer layer of Live: Runteldat
237686 ★ Note 3 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Eddie Murphy - Raw
246004 ★ 2004 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76, L779 Inner layer of Blue Collar Comedy Tour Rides Again
246005 ★ 2004 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV80, LV76 Outer layer of Blue Collar Comedy Tour Rides Again
282614 ★ 2006 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Inner layer of No Reason To Complain
282615 ★ 2006 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Outer layer of No Reason To Complain
288107 ★ 2006 ◆ DVD ● CA ★ L893 Tracy Morgan - Life, Love & Lust
292343 ★ 2006 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Inner layer of Blue Collar Comedy Tour - One For The Road
292344 ★ 2006 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Outer layer of Blue Collar Comedy Tour - One For The Road
345488 ★ 2008 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Inner layer of The Best Of Comedy Central Presents (Uncensored)
345489 ★ 2008 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Outer layer of The Best Of Comedy Central Presents (Uncensored)
374500 ★ 2009 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L779 Inner layer of King Baby
374501 ★ 2009 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Outer layer of King Baby
386540 ★ 2009 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L779 Gabriel Iglesias - I'm Not Fat... I'm Fluffy
395747 ★ 2010 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV76 Martin Lawrence (2) - You So Crazy
428611 ★ 2010 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV77 Inner layer of Stands Up
428612 ★ 2010 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ LV77 Outer layer of Stands Up
453228 ★ 2011 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L779 Inner layer of Happy Thoughts
453229 ★ 2011 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L780 Outer layer of Happy Thoughts
479228 ★ 2012 ◆ DVD ● MX ★ L779 Patton Oswalt - Finest Hour
563624 ★ 2015 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LV77 Garbage - Garbage
563627 ★ 2015 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LV77 Garbage - Garbage
606034 ★ RP ◆ CD ● MX ★ L779 Linkin Park - Living Things
1006217 ★ RP ◆ CD ● MX ★ L247 Luke Bryan - Crash My Party
1014369 ★ RP ◆ CD ● MX ★ L247 Kacey Musgraves - Pageant Material
1108438 ★ 2020 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LV77 Luke Bryan - Born Here Live Here Die Here
1132330 ★ 2020 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LT40 Josh Turner (2) - Country State Of Mind
1136104 ★ 2020 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LT40 Seether - Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
1136740 ★ 2020 ◆ CD ● MX ★ LT40 Katy Perry - Smile
1161083 ★ 2020 ◆ CD ● MX ★ L779, LV77 The Weeknd - The Highlights

Note 1: 118498 is not in ().
Note 2: O-card makes pressing a 2009 Reissue of 2002 release.
Note 3: 2006 © on a 2004 RE

Edit: Changed the order of the columns and added symbols in the hope that the info wouldn't be as painful to concentrate on.

star_man_20
I know it's a small sampling to take results from, but here are my TNC CA & TNC MX pressings and the # in ():

nice work to highlight a sequence.

Good work star_man_20!
From that small sample it does look like the numbers from the bracketed portion of the matrix are somewhat sequential, certainly increasing with time, even if not every single number is utilised.

If the () numbers are "job numbers", mightn't the missing numbers be for non-music releases? Like for movies, games and what-not? So, we wouldn't then be expected to find every number on discogs (assuming of course every music release possible were submitted).

star_man_20
I know it's a small sampling to take results from, but here are my TNC CA & TNC MX pressings and the # in ():

That is a pretty compelling example actually, and I think I'm coming around to agreeing that they probably are sequential.

theksmusik
If the () numbers are "job numbers", mightn't the missing numbers be for non-music releases? Like for movies, games and what-not? So, we wouldn't then be expected to find every number on discogs (assuming of course every music release possible were submitted).

This is true.

I think at this stage I would be in favour of entering the bracketed job number in LCCN.

theksmusik
If the () numbers are "job numbers", mightn't the missing numbers be for non-music releases?

In the examples I posted, from multi-disc sets produced at/around the same time, the order is ascending but there are gaps that probably wouldn't be best explained as being for another release, but rather simply not used for some reason. Or at least I do not see any sense in assigning every other number in a 3-disc or 10-disc set to some other job.

Myriad
I think at this stage I would be in favour of entering the bracketed job number in LCCN.

I agree with that conclusion. From star_man_20's overview it is apparent that it is a series that is timebound. The examples I gave fit right in the series / timeline too.