• Anonymous over 13 years ago

    dj_purity_control edited over 13 years ago
    Hi folks,

    Just thought I'd start a reference list of some common runout groove etchings, and how they should be properly listed in submissions. Some can be added as credits, others should be listed in notes only. If you have any others, please post them in this thread.

    -----

    Mastering info:

    SIMON - THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Simon Davey

    THE EXCHANGE - NILZ (or other variants)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Nilesh Patel

    MIKE @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Mike Marsh

    MANDY @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Mandy Parnell

    Stu.
    (or) Stu. @ Masterpiece.
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Stuart Hawkes

    Herbie :^)
    (or) HP F/W
    (or) Herb :^) F/W
    (or) Herbie Jr. :^)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Herb Powers Jr.

    MASTERED BY CAPITOL Wally
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Wally Traugott

    *-J.T.S.-* (or other variants)
       Add a note:
       Mastered at J.T.S.

    Music House
       Add a note:
       Mastered at Music House.

    LAWRIE @ CURVE PUSHER
    (or) CURVE PUSHER.
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Lawrie Immersion

    [/] @ CURVE PUSHER.
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Ashley Burchett

    A Porky Prime Cut.
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - George Peckham

    D+M (note; M has a hook on the end)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Moritz von Oswald

    (spiral sign) @ D+M
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Robert Henke

    an "A with M" sign
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Andy Mellwig

    pole
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Pole

    CGB
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Christoph Grote-Beverborg

    andreas@schnittstelle
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Andreas Kauffelt

    GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Guy Davie

    TC
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Tom Coyne

    CSB (with two musical notes)
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Carlton Batts

    NSC
       Add a note:
       Mastered at National Sound Corporation, Detroit.

    Trutone NY - PA
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Phil Austin

    COPYMASTERS - Miles
       Add a credit:
       Mastered by - Miles Showell

    Rashad
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Rashad Becker

    Lupo
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Loop-o

    MARTIN @ C.T.S.
       Add a credit:
       Mastered by - Martin Giles

    C.T.S. Wembley
       Add a note:
       Mastered at C.T.S. Studios, Wembley.

    FW RCE
       Add a credit:
       Mastered By - Rick Essig

    SST
       Add a note:
       Mastered at Schallplatten Schneid Technik, Frankfurt, Germany.

    -----

    Pressing plant info:

    EUROPADISK
       Add a note:
       Pressed at Europadisk, NYC, New York.

    DAMONT
       Add a note:
       Pressed at Damont Audio Limited.

    ORLAKE
       Add a note:
       Pressed at Orlake Records.

    MPO
       Add a note:
       Pressed at MPO Averton.

    DFI
       Add a note:
       Pressed at DFI.

    WMME Alsdorf
       Add a note:
       Pressed at Warner Music Manufacturing Europe, Alsdorf, Germany.

    -----

    MOST WANTED IDENTIFICATIONS:

    - PAUL S @ PORKY'S ?
    - Neil Masterpiece ??
    - Dave W - Masterpiece ???
    - ANDY '92 ????

    -----

    Others will be added as they are discovered. Thanks to Plastic-Demons, Spy_On_Summer, 909_bd, Gecks, md, uzumaki, donnacha, and raulus for the additions.
  • Plastic-Demons over 13 years ago

    What no 'Porky Prime Cuts' :o(
  • Spy_On_Summer over 13 years ago

    Spy_On_Summer edited over 13 years ago
    HP F/W
    Herb :^) FW
    Herbie Jr :^)

    is also

    mastered by Herb Powers Jr. (at Frankford/Wayne)

    edit: update
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Amended, thanks PD4U and SOS :)
  • Zyron over 13 years ago

    Great thread!
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    I know the guy who cut the records at "D+M" here in Berlin.

    when D+M the "M" letter is with a "hook" at the end, cut by Moritz von Oswald.
    a spiral sign @D+M =is cut by Robert Henke
    an "A with M" sign =Andy Mellwig (Porter Ricks)
    pole= Pole (Stephan Betke)
    CGB= Christoph Grote-Beverborg
    lupo=...(forgot sorry)
    rashad=...(I will edit the last 2 when I find the info back)
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    SST= 1:1 cuts by Mrs. Brüggemann (Frankfurt, Germany)
    andreas@schnittstelle=Andreas Kauffelt
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Not sure what you mean by the SST one? What does it say in the groove, and who should it be credited to?

    Added all the rest, thanks.
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    909_bd edited over 13 years ago
    SST = Schallplatten Schneid Technik (name of the company). The woman who cuts there does fairly good 1:1 vinyl cuts of mastered CDR or DATs. Her family name (all I know) is Brüggemann.

    Some pressing plants also cut things (also pretty much 1:1):
    "MPO" is only the company name of a french plant, they sometimes also add the "MPO" sign if the cut was done by someone else and they only do the mechanical pressing.
    same with "DFI" another french plant.

    There are couple more guys cutting at Curvepusher (namely Phase (Ashley Burchett) of Cosmic/ Inceptive records - a Zero with a stroke through sign) and also Exchange (there is a woman cutting too).

    change the "CGM" to CGB" in the topic above (typo) for the d+M guy
  • helix over 13 years ago

    Excellent.

    This needs to go sticky at least and eventually into the Submission Guide.
  • Gecks over 13 years ago

    Gecks edited over 13 years ago
    MANDY @ THE EXCHANGE (or other variants)
    Add a credit:
    Mastered By - Mandy Parnell
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    OK, added the rest, except for SST -- see if you can get me a full name as I'd rather have a full name to link it to rather than "Mrs. Brüggemann".

    Thanks guys :)
  • Gecks over 13 years ago

    whoops, it's parnell with 2 'l's :/ i have fixed my link, so please do the one up top too, thanks :)
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Fixed it, thanks for the catch.
  • md over 13 years ago

    md edited over 13 years ago
    let's not forget Guy Davie, also of The Exchange, Camden. Signs off his cuts with GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE if I remember right. Would have to check at home.

    I know that Cut By has been raised in the mod forum as a possible addition to the list of credits. All those taken from run out grooves would belong under that role, if it comes into being.
  • uzumaki over 13 years ago

    TC - Tom Coyne
    CSB with two musical notes, probably Carlton Batts
    NSC - National Sound Corporation, Detroit
    Trutone NY - PA is probably Phil Austin
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    NSC used to be solely Ron Murphy (except some very early stuff), now also Heath Brunner.
  • sjcee over 13 years ago

    as discussed previously DJPC:

    SST is a good example: as bd_909 points out:
    she/her family is doing the vinyl cuts, but no MASTERING!!!

    I'd be keen to know if you can proove a 100% percent, if all of the persons above listed would do MASTERING & CUTTING for each release they're cutting! unless it's mentioned somewherer, I'd be car3eful with adding Mastering credits just on basis of an etching!
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Wow - very keen! Thanks for this - I think it should go into the Release Guidelines, along with the Label Codes when things are more solidified (or even now, and things could be updated continually).
  • mjb over 13 years ago

    What does "F/W" stand for? It seems to show up on a lot of them, but with different names.
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    F/W is Frankford Wayne Mastering Labs in NYC.
  • donnacha over 13 years ago

    COPYMASTERS - Miles
    Add a credit
    Mastered by - Miles Showell (proof)
  • arjen over 13 years ago

    Rather interesting & all that, but is it important? I only mention messages etched in runout grooves....
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Given that Discogs now allows for inclusion of all credits, I'd say this is very helpful - lots of pressings with little info can be connected to the proper mastering people to releases. Total information inclusion, and all that =)
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    I don't know if any of these chappies etch their work, but Masterpiece has a current list of audio engineers.

    I found it while looking for any mention of who "Neil Masterpiece" is, with no luck. Anyone else know?
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    You could always contact them -- I tried the same with the Exchange a while back and was pleasantly surprised to receive a response.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    I thought I'd ask here, as I wasn't sure how fast I'd get a reply from the company itself, and it seems it might well be a while (nothing after a day, so far).
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Great thread, thank you. :))
  • BUNKERHEADZ over 13 years ago

    MILES - COPYMASTERS

    that's the one who cutted Adam X's Listen RMXS on Fabulous(FABU008), maybe Adam can remember his real name . . .
  • BUNKERHEADZ over 13 years ago

    *cutted, mastered* one of these two anyway ;)
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Bunker, see donnacha's post above for the answer to that one. :)
  • cul over 13 years ago

    D+M
    D&M
    ?

    no hooks or @'s. whats that mean? refering to the Burial Mix and Basic Replay records.
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    I don't know if this is much or any help, but as a reply to the Dubplates and Mastering post by 909_bd:

    Rashad is Rashad Becker (or Rashad (2), as he appears on some records).
    I don't know about Lupo, I've named him Lupo (3) when I updated Berlinette. Perhaps that was a mistake, but I couldn't find any detailed information on him anywhere.
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    Sorry. A bit of work, but I think I found it. Wolfgang Schubert or Loop-o. At least that seems correct. Advice on updating Berlinette again would be appreciated; I should probably merge them or what?

    Thanks.
  • zevulon over 13 years ago

    This is a good progression of Discogs - I've been silently wishing 4 this since I came along - Thanx Y'all !
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    Why is this not a sticky ?   cul - these are cut by Moritz von Oswald
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    909_bd, as you were the one to give detailed information about D&M pressings, perhaps you can tell me (us) what Rashad Becker engraves in the records. (I was trying to make out what it was, but all I could distinguish, from a relatively thin strip of vinyl, was a circle with some markings in it, plus the letters "A D&M".

    Thanks.
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    Masterpiece seems to be a problem for me as well as some others. I have a Dream City Film Club 7", which has "Dave W - Masterpiece" engraved; alas, I couldn't find useful information. If anyone has knowledge about this, please.

    Thanks.
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Just added a bunch more that had been posted, plus a couple I've discovered, and added a "most wanted" section for those that need to be identified.

    Also, can someone please make this a sticky thread? It was already turned on for edits, so please if we could keep this useful info up near the top.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Neil Masterpiece: Neil Devine, though I guess he no longer works there (found this from an Archive.org page -- linkee! - unfortunately, his profile is easily accessable -- check it here, though you have to scroll a bit). Apparently he was with Masterpiece in London for around a decade, because when they finally updated their site in September 2004, he was no longer on their roster.

    Some backing up: linkee about a lone release by a chap named Fangle on a label called Emu Records. They also seem to be lost back in 2004.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    haha - seems that Discogs itself holds the answer to Paul S @ Porky's >> see Paul Solomons' profile >> Mastering engineer working at Porky's Mastering in London. =)
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    And I'm guessing that Andy '92 is Andy Pearce, Masterpiece's only specialist in audio restoration (direct link to bio).

    But this is only a guess. I wasn't able to find any site linking the list of his recent works and Andy '92 (though he won a lot of awards in 1992 and 1993, it seems).

    And while I'm posting a third time in a row, does the name Nachtigal At Home sound familiar? I'm not sure if the whole name is "Nachtigal At Home" or simply "Nachtigal". Yes, I'm doing a bit of cross-posting, but the topic at hand is mastering artists / credits.
  • MIKE-H over 13 years ago

    Another one for the most wanted list:

    Tim D. Masterpiece

    Noticed this etched on a few of my tunes.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Mike: how old are your records? All I can find on current or Archive.org pages for MasterpieceLondon.com is a Tony Dixon, who does CD mastering/ editing. Given, the archives only go back to 2002.
  • MIKE-H over 13 years ago

    deejsasqui, The records in question are from 1999 and were released on the Quosh label. I'll dig out some of their earlier releases as well when I get a chance to see if it's the same.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Seems like he might not work there anymore. Too bad the company wasn't too forthcoming with info on their past employees.
  • moodytrax over 13 years ago

    moodytrax edited over 13 years ago
    PCMJR
    MMMJR
    or M.M.M.J.R.
    or Metropolis Mastering Chicago M.J.R.

    Mastered By - Mark Richardson (3)
  • niobium over 13 years ago

    good thread DJP, I'll add a few in awhile.
  • cul over 13 years ago

    Is 'cut by' a fully sanctioned credit now?
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    No, it's not. It's not listed in the guide, and I would advise against using it, as vinyl mastering is what many of the aforementioned artists do.
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    Regarding John Golden.

    I saw "JG" engraved in the run-out groove of Low's "Trust", accompanied by "GOLDEN" (it's pressed with a stamp rather than engraved). Other records that Golden mastered didn't have the "JG". But still, it's worth mentioning.

    Hence, "GOLDEN" would have to mean it's mastered at Golden Mastering. But there's a snag-- Arcade Fire's "Funeral" has the "GOLDEN" stamp as well, but the sleeve notes say "Mastered by Ryan Morey at Disques SNB, Montréal". I don't know about this.

    Also, In the Aeroplane Over the Sea" "GS" engraved, in addition to "GOLDEN". The sleeve says nothing about who mastered the record.
  • cul over 13 years ago

    Idiots guide to the difference between vinyl cutting and vinyl mastering?

    Is vinyl mastering the thing that needs to be done before the cutting and isnt usually supervised by the vinyl masterer, but sometimes is eg: Cern White_II
  • 909_bd over 13 years ago

    *Most* times it is done on the spot (for anything after 1990, especially electronic music) - mastering and cut is one process, done by the same person, the cutting engineer (thats what this thread is trying to do).
    Places that do simple "transfers" (without any mastering, i.e. adjusting eq, level and compression/ limiting setting) are NOT the norm nowadays. SST/ Brüggemann and the pressing plant MPO are the only one I know around here.
    One label I know which never did any mastering on their pressings is Djax Records - I think they all get cut at some cheap place in Holland.
    Another place I can add is FOON Mastering Lier, Belgium. http://www.foon.be they cut tons of techno records, Music Man, R+S all that.
  • niobium over 13 years ago


    dj_purity_control, do you mind if I add this list to my forum about bootlegs?

  • detour over 13 years ago

    About NSC... Why not add Ron Murphy? You can see from his handwriting in the run outs that it is him....
  • donnacha over 13 years ago

    Anyone know what Ray at The Exchange's full name is? He's not on their website.
  • donnacha over 13 years ago

  • donnacha over 13 years ago

  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Well, apparently I can't edit the top post on this anymore.
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Or any post, for that matter. Not exactly sure when that happened, even after the edit lockout I was still able to presumably because I thought this thread was flagged. *sigh*
  • Bong over 13 years ago

    I hope you'll be able to edit the top post again...

    I have a one more etching: Carter USM - "30 Something" LP on Rough Trade, it has Damont on the runout groove (already on the list) and also TOWNHOUSE DMM (not on the list) on the runout groove. The sleeve notes says "Mastered by Kevin Metcalf at The Townhouse". Maybe something to add to the list...
  • md over 13 years ago

    re: Mike H's post above, there was definitely a Tim at Masterpiece. He did 2 or 3 of my early cuts. Don't think I ever knew what the D stands for though.
  • deejsasqui over 13 years ago

    Perhaps we could create a "Runout Grooves Decyphering" page in the help.discogs section? Also including a vague range of dates someone worked there would be good (if someone is no longer listed on the mastering company's site, I'd take it that they no longer work there =)

    And when looking at company sites, don't forget Archive.org, which could contain an older list of employees.
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Speaking of runout grooves, are they done by a machine, or does someone etch it in?

    Like a cheap Indonesian worker who is paid €5 a week to do it??
  • md over 13 years ago

    Both, depending on where it's done. You can easily tell, a machine stamp has uniform characters, hand etchings look like they were done by hand. In either case, they are done by the cutting engineer at the time the lacquer is cut. The processing/pressing plant (e.g. MPO) will also often add their mark.
  • simfonik over 13 years ago

    STICKY
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    About Tim D Masterpiece: It's Tim Dennen.

    I was also wondering about Decomposed Subsonic / Hartmut Wessling. I don't own any releases he's mastered, so if anyone could say what he engraves in the runout grooves, that would be great. Perhaps this could be cleared up so that those mastering credits will go under his real name, even if the label says "Decomposed Subsonic".

    Thanks.
  • burntdog over 13 years ago

    Joe Yannece (at The Hit Factory) etched at least one record with J.Y., but there's also RE2, with the E looking like a backwards 3. Anyone know about that etching?
  • burntdog over 13 years ago

    Or how about Km, along with HB1 (possibily ItB1) and HUBTV? This is from a God Lives Underwater promo on 1500 Records from 1998.
  • cul over 13 years ago

    "Both, depending on where it's done. You can easily tell, a machine stamp has uniform characters, hand etchings look like they were done by hand. In either case, they are done by the cutting engineer at the time the lacquer is cut."

    ON the handwritten ones, does that mean they are all unique? how does a machine copy the handwriting of the master copy? the handwriting isnt in a 'circular' format.
  • md over 13 years ago

    cul, I'm not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I think you're asking if on a handwritten run-out groove the etching is made one record per time? If so, the answer is no. If that is what you're asking, I think you maybe misunderstand the manufacturing process - records are not manufactured by cutting each vinyl disc one at a time. Only the master is cut while spinning, the end product is pressed. Perhaps this link will explain it better: http://www.lowliferecords.freeserve.co.uk/independent/process.htm
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    There was a nice educational video on the Slices DVD, showing how vinyl records are made.
  • md over 13 years ago

    hmmm, I have that DVD at home, haven't watched any of it yet.
  • cul over 13 years ago

    Ah-ha!

    yes there was def some confusion on my part. i had it in my head that all records were cut not pressed. thanks for the info.
  • Anonymous over 13 years ago

    Bumping.

    It would be really nice if this thread was made sticky in this forum, and editing was turned on.
  • Weasle over 13 years ago

    lol...i just searched for this earlier.

    Cheers dj_purity_control
  • Weasle over 13 years ago

    I also had to search for the LabelCodes thread but can`t bump it cos i`m not invited!
    Could you do it dj_purity_control
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    For when this becomes a sticky or something:
    Mika Jussila engraved "Finnvox MJ" into a 7" by Röövel Ööbik (1989). Notes on another release state that MJFX is etched, so these two should be mentioned as his acronyms.
    Cheers.

    P.S. dj_purity_control, I hope you got my message about those D&M engineers.
  • md over 13 years ago

    @ Weasle - why not use the Save This Topic function so you can locate threads more easily? It's at the top-right of the thread.
  • Weasle over 13 years ago

    @ md DOH never noticed that b4...cheers
  • donnacha over 13 years ago

    Here's a new one - on Pagan Lovesong Nix Mix Townhouse - any ideas?
  • Old_Skool_Daze_92 over 13 years ago

    "Pauls' The Exchange"
    Credit= Mastered By Paul Solomon.
    Found this info on an old subbase label from 1992.
    Label says "Engineer Paul Solomon" and the runout groove reads: "Pauls-The Exchange"
    same guy?? I would like to think so.
    Let me know.
    Cheers...Mr.B
  • simfonik over 13 years ago

    requested this to be stuck and edits allowed.
  • downtown.music over 13 years ago

    Anyone here got any decent info/links on WALLY (Traugott)?

    I'm thrilled about this thread and I've been spending way too much time updating mastering credits whenever I can.

    I did find this interesting link:
    Capitol has a Mastering website!


    But Wally don't work there anymore. I gave up after a half hour of googling, though I don't pretend to be great at it.

    Side note: those of you who are sitting on old DATs should read what Capitol has to say about old digital (or analog) tapes.
    Don't sleep!
  • onelittle over 13 years ago

    @ donnacha, I think Nix is Larry Nix
  • Mad_Porno_Max over 13 years ago

    Mastered by Lionel & Hervé @ Translab.

    Masterd by Lionel (2) & Hervé Bordes @ Translab.
  • comkai over 13 years ago

    ^ well, i could be wrong, but it looks like Lionel (2) = Lionel Nicod @ Translab, Paris !
    i have a release with the (barely readable) runout groove etching
    LO @ Translab (which also could be IO)...
  • Zyron over 13 years ago

    I've seen BA-CR on many records, any idea what that is?
  • downtown.music over 13 years ago

    Frankford Wayne with a drawing of a PEACH or APPLE?

    This one is very common in the 80's and 90's.
    Always hand-written, "FW" with a piece of fruit logo.

    Anyone know who this is?
  • downtown.music over 13 years ago

    downtown.music edited over 13 years ago
    dj_purity_control wrote:

    "F/W is Frankford Wayne Mastering Labs in NYC."

    Except when it's FW in Philadelphia, which was their home base "back in the day", starting in 1967.

    They opened a NYC branch in 1973, and did a lot of seminal work, and Herb Powers was a very busy man (and still is to this day, but mainly working in the digital domain at his own company).

    During the 80's and especially the 90's "FW" hand-written could possibly be either location.
    But I don't know when they closed and sold the Philadelphia operation.
    Usually they use(d) a die-stamper with the address, and then the engineer would (maybe) add his signature.
  • downtown.music over 13 years ago

    Previously,
    md wrote:

    "let's not forget Guy Davie, also of The Exchange, Camden. Signs off his cuts with GUY'S - THE EXCHANGE if I remember right. Would have to check at home."

    I have a release in my hands that's inscribed "The Exchange - GD"
    which must be another variation for this cutting engineer.


  • Zyron over 13 years ago

    Zyron edited over 12 years ago
    BA-CR is Björn Almstedt at Cutting Room, Stockholm.
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Any ideas about "Tom D." in conjunction woth MPO?
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Also on the fluoro orange Ionized/Kabalah by Astral Projection there is a big O above the cat. no.
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Oh and

    STICKY!
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Yay!!
  • raulus over 13 years ago

    I'm suggesting F.A. as one of the engravings for Frank Arkwright. He etched these into Squarepusher's "Hard Normal Daddy".
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    How about PR-M?
    I have this on Transmissions by Juno Reactor, on NovaMute
  • the_electrician over 13 years ago

    Oh I just noticed Townhouse on that one as well...
  • Aphex139 over 13 years ago

    I have some records with 'JA' (assuming that's who mastered it) and also 'OR' engraved elsewhere on the runout (maybe the pressing plant?). These are on some UK Drum & Bass tunes. Any help would be appreciated.

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