• Staff 71

    Weetzie over 3 years ago

    If you have a question for other Italian translators, please post your question here.

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  • chn74 over 3 years ago

    chn74 edited over 3 years ago
    Hi everyone,

    just started translating and I was wondering how we should translate "Contributor". Leave it like that, or use "Collaboratore" or "Contributore"?

    My preference goes to "Collaboratore". What's your take on this?

    I was also thinking it would be a good idea to use this thread to discuss how to translate very discogs-specific terms. There's a general discussion about the subject in this thread: http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/394846 and the German thread.

    Terms such as ANV, CIP and other acronyms, "release" and derivatives, "tracklist", "submission"..., as well as words accepted and used worldwide like "post", "link" and so on.

    Some suggestions for the transifex Italian glossary (will be subject to further editing as we discuss, please feel free to add anything to this list).

    Should not be translated:
    ANV
    Alias
    CIP
    Release, Master Release, Key Release
    Tracklist
    Feedback
    Link
    Post
    Thread
    Tag
    Marketplace
    Database
    Troll

    To be translated (and how?):
    Submission -> Submission (?)
    Submit -> Inserire (Sottoporre?)
    Contribution / Contribute-> Contributo / Contribuire
    Guidelines -> Linee Guida
    Barcode -> Codice A Barre

    Input appreciated, thanks!
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    laserta edited over 3 years ago
    chn74
    just started translating and I was wondering how we should translate "Contributor". Leave it like that, or use "Collaboratore" or "Contributore"?

    Contributore
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    Release -------> Versione
    Tracklist -------> Elenco brani
    Feedback -----> Riscontro
    Marketplace --> Mercato

    To be translated (and how?):
    Submission -> Contribuzione
    Submit -> Invia
    Contribution / Contribute-> Contributo / Contribuire
    Guidelines -> Linee Guida
    Barcode -> Codice A Barre
  • chn74 over 3 years ago

    laserta
    Submission -> Contribuzione

    "Contribuzione" is very rarely used both in spoken and written Italian. I actually never heard anyone using the term in a real conversation. We should and can think of something better.

    laserta
    Submit -> Invia

    Agree for the "Submit" button. As a verb I'm thinking "Inviare, Inserire", e.g. "Before submitting info to the database" -> "Prima di inserire informazioni nel database".

    laserta
    Release -------> Versione
    Tracklist -------> Elenco brani
    Feedback -----> Riscontro
    Marketplace --> Mercato

    There's already a proposal to not translate these and other such discogs-specific terms, in order to provide consistent and fluent translations, regardless of the language.
    See discussion in the German and general threads:
    http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/394850
    http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/394846

    Let's see what the outcome will be.

  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 3 years ago

    Hello Italian translators! We've been syncing with Transifex every Thursday, but we will be syncing three times this week in an attempt to get as many translations live as possible. There are some new strings for an upcoming Discogs Labs beta test that you'll be hearing more about soon, as well as some last minute VAT updates. If you have time, check out the new and untranslated strings, and chip in a few translations: https://www.transifex.com/discogs-1/discogs-i18n/dashboard/

    You might want to take advantage of the Transifex Translation Memory as I noticed that many of the new strings are actually 100% matches with past translations.

    As always, let me know if you have any questions! Thanks for all of your help!
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    Hi, I just joined the team and I was looking around, and I'd like to already raise an issue: the use of plurals in English terms.

    Italian language does not decline foreign words into plural, but leaves them singular. That is, it is wrong to say "3 files copiati", it should be "3 file copiati". The only "exception" is Latin language which is not perceived as foreign, so it is legal to say "3 curricula" instead of "3 curriculum".

    I noticed that in discogs' italian translations english plurals have been used. Example: "Cookies are not enabled" => "I Cookies non sono abilitati", while I think it should be "I cookie non sono abilitati".
    Major operating systems (Windows, Mac OS) and famous websites follow these rules too. As an example, see Amazon's cookie policy in Italian where they use "I cookie" instead of "I cookies".

    Should I change these plurals when I find them? Should we adopt this rule as guideline? Personally I think that usage of English plurals in Italian is just plain wrong and looks a little bit unprofessional.
  • chn74 over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    Should I change these plurals when I find them?

    Yes absolutely, if you ask me.
    I'd also like to hear your take on some questions I raised above. Been away for a while and I'm kind of disheartened by the quality of translations.
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    ugilio edited over 3 years ago
    Italian Translation Guidelines

    This is a draft and subject to changes. Discussion takes place in the following posts. Please comment!

    Vocabulary
    (This will also end up in the Transifex glossary)

    English => Italian

    Alias => Alias
    ANV => ANV
    Barcode => Codice a barre
    CIP => CIP (see also Contributor Improvement Program)
    Contribution => Contributo
    Contribute => Contribuire
    Contributor => Collaboratore, (sometimes: coloro che hanno contribuito, or contributi di)
    Contributor Improvement Program => Programma di Miglioramento Collaboratori ?
    Database => Database
    Feedback => Feedback
    Guidelines => Linee guida
    History => Cronologia, Cronologia modifiche
    Item => Articolo, Oggetto ?
    Link (web, discogs) => Link
    Listing => Annuncio
    List for sale => Mettere in vendita
    Marketplace => Marketplace
    Merge => Fondere, Unire ?
    Policy => Regola (general meaning)
    Shipping policy => Politica di spedizione
    Privacy policy => Informativa sulla privacy
    Post (noun) => Messaggio
    Post (verb) => Pubblicare
    Release => Release, Edizione, Opera ?
    Master Release => (undecided, depends on the choice for Release)
    Key Release => (undecided, depends on the choice for Release)
    Submission => Contributo
    Submit => Inserire (when inserting a new release), Inviare (all other uses).
    Submitter => Collaboratore (see Contributor)
    Tag => Tag, Taggare
    Thread => Discussione
    Topic => Argomento (matter), Sezione (thread container in the forum)
    Tracklist(ing) => Elenco tracce
    Troll => Troll
    Wantlist => Wantlist

    Other guidelines

    Usage of plurals of foreign words
    Words from foreign languages (besides latin) should be left at the singular declination: "Copiare i files" is wrong, "Copiare i file" is correct.

    Addressing the user
    The second person, singular should be used (tu vs voi) ? .

    Capitalization
    Italian does not use capitalization as much as English does. So "Crea un Account" is wrong, "Crea un account" is correct.
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    ugilio edited over 3 years ago
    I searched through the translation corpus for occurrences of some terms, and I noticed that there were a lot of discrepancies. Basically, every translator used his own vocabulary. Here is the list of italian terms currently used for their english counterparts, together with some comments.
    Please comment, after a discussion we will update the above post to provide a consistent translation.

    Release: pubblicazione, versione, edizione, release, uscita, opera.
    I think "versione" is misleading because there is a mismatch with "version" (e.g. "See all versions of the release").
    Uscita might be correct in some contexts but I don't think it can be used more generally.
    There are a lot of occurences of "pubblicazione", but I think it sounds bad and is not very appropriate to identify a discographic entry, even if a record is something that has been published.
    We might leave the term untranslated (Release) and translate "Master release" to "Release principale" and "Key release" to "Release chiave".
    "Edizione" might be a candidate: "Aggiungi Edizione", "Mostra tutte le versioni di questa edizione", "Modifica edizione", "Edizione principale" (master release), "Edizione chiave" (Key release).
    Opera might be the most exact term (meaning the product of intellectual work) but I think it does not sound good and may be misleading when talking about records (one might think it is a recording of some opera in some theatre). However, these are some example strings: "Aggiungi Opera", "Mostra tutte le versioni di questa opera", "Modifica opera", "Opera principale", "Opera chiave".

    Contribution: contributo, contribuzione
    Contribuzione is something related to salary and taxes. The right word is contributo.
    The verb for contribute is obviously contribuire.

    Contributor, Submitter: contributore, collaboratore, submitter
    While formally correct, I think contributore sounds very awkward. I think collaboratore should be used whenever possible, and using helper sentences in other cases ("Contributor list" => "Contributi di")

    Contributor Improvement Program: Programma di Miglioramento dei Contributori, Contributor Improvement Program, Programma di miglioramento collaboratori, Programma di Miglioramento Contributore, Programma per il Miglioramento come Contributore
    Maybe "Programma di miglioramento collaboratori" is the best?

    Submit: presentare, inserire, inviare, sottoporre, inoltrare, creare
    There are a lot of occurrences of presentare but in my opinion it is misleading.
    I think the best are inserire and inviare, depending on the context:
    Inserire may be used in the context of inserting new data to the database (e.g. creation of a new release)
    Inviare is a more generic term, it may be used in the context of submitting changes and in all other general meanings of "submit"
    I think creare might also be used when talking about submitting a new release to the database, even if I would stick to using Inserire and Inviare.
    Sottoporre and inoltrare are too convoluted in my opinion.
    Other translations of Submit in the translation corpus are aprire, fare (submit offer => fare un'offerta), segnalare (submit spam report => segnala spam), caricare (submit an image => carica un'immagine). We might change these or leave them as they are.

    Submission: presentazione, contribuzione, contributo, inserimento, sottomissione, aggiunta, modifica, sezione, submission
    Presentazione is wrong in this case. I would use contributo, discarding contribuzione for the same reason written before. Maybe in some cases it might be appropriate to use inserimento or modifica?

    Thread: discussione, conversazione, thread, argomento.
    I think we might leave the term untranslated or use Discussione. If I remember correctly, phpbb (a popular forum software) uses "discussione". Argomento is wrong because it is appropriate for "topic". Note that in discogs "topics" contain "threads", which are made up of posts. See also the discussion of topic below.

    Topic: argomento, sezione, discussione
    While discussione is wrong (it clashes with thread above) there are two uses of topic: one meaning "the topic of discussion", which is to be translated with "argomento", and one describing the container of threads in discogs forum. I think the latter might be translated with "sezione".
    That is, "the Database topic in the forum contains the 'OBI Strips' thread" is translated as "La sezione Database del forum contiene la discussione 'OBI Strips'".
    On the other hand "Help topics" is "Argomenti della guida" (or something like that).

    Post (noun): post, messaggio
    Post is now a common term. Though, messaggio sounds ok and should be preferred.

    Post (verb): postare, pubblicare, inserire, inviare
    Personally I prefer "pubblicare" instead of postare, but it might be a matter of subjective taste.
    E.g. I think that "Non pubblichiamo niente su Facebook o Google senza il tuo permesso." is better than "Non postiamo niente su Facebook o Google senza il tuo permesso."

    Wantlist: Wantlist, lista desideri, lista dei desideri
    I think wantlist is more concise. Amazon though uses lista desideri. In either case, I think "lista DEI desideri" is too long. Opinions?

    Tracklisting, tracklist: Elenco tracce, tracklist
    Actually this has only two occurences (one for tracklisting in the help, one for tracklist in the page where you edit a release). In the first case it is translated as "elenco tracce", in the second one it is left untranslated. I think it is ok to always use "Elenco tracce".

    Item: articolo, oggetto, elemento, prodotto
    Articolo is used quite a lot, but oggetto too. Maybe in some limited cases elemento is ok. However, I think we should decide about whether to use oggetto or articolo.
    Another possibility is to use "articolo" for marketplace items, and "oggetto" for other more generic occurrences (e.g. an item you insert into your collection). Opinions?

    Merge: Fondere, unire, accorpare
    Fondere and unire are used a lot, and sometimes accorpare. The context this verb is used (and the name) is when merging releases, but also multiple orders that can be "collapsed" into one.
    I cannot really decide between one and the other, and sometimes I think accorpare is good to. Let's try to see how they sound:
    Fondere: "X ha fuso questo ordine in Y", "Fondi", "Fondi queste due release", "Fuso", "Fusioni di release in attesa", "Release fuse recentemente", "Questa release ha già una fusione in attesa".
    Unire: "X ha unito questo ordine in Y", "Unisci", "Unisci queste due release", "Unito", "Unioni di release in attesa", "Release unite recentemente", "Questa release ha già un'unione in attesa".
    Accorpare: "X ha accorpato questo ordine in Y", "Accorpa", "Accorpa queste due release", "Accorpato", "Accorpamenti di release in attesa", "Release accorpate recentemente", "Questa release ha già un'accorpamento in attesa".

    Marketplace: Marketplace, mercato, mercato musicale, mercatino, negozio
    I prefer to leave the term untranslated. Currently there are some translations to mercato, but I think I never seen the word "mercato" on e-commerce sites, so I am in favour of leaving the term untranslated. Opinions?

    Feedback: feedback, riscontro, opinione, reputazione
    I think Feedback can be left untranslated. Ebay also uses "feedback" in its italian version.

    Link: link, collegamento, collegamento esterno
    In my opinion link should be used when the subject is a web link, or a discogs link (e.g. to a release page).
    Other words can be used when the context is different.


    Other guidelines

    Usage of plurals of foreign words
    Words from foreign languages (besides latin) should be left at the singular declination: "Copiare i files" is wrong, "Copiare i file" is correct.

    Addressing the user
    The second person, singular should be used (tu vs voi). Major websites like facebook, twitter, amazon do this ("Accedi", "Compra", "Modifica profilo").
    Microsoft software traditionally makes use of infinite form ("Impossibile copiare i file. Verificare che il supporto non sia danneggiato."), while Mac OS if I recall correctly uses the first person ("Non riesco ad aprire l'indirizzo internet").
    I think we should use the second person, singular, resorting to infinite when the sentence sounds too awkward.

    Capitalization
    Should we capitalize words as English does?
    Example: "Create an Account" => "Crea un Account"
    Maybe it's ok to just do as the original English sentence?

    Italian does not use capitalization as much as English does. So "Crea un Account" is wrong, "Crea un account" is correct.
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 3 years ago

    Thanks for getting this discussion started, ugilio! My knowledge of Italian is very limited, so I won't offer any advice other than to suggest that once some decisions are made here in this thread, that we can update the Discogs i18n Italian Glossary: https://www.transifex.com/discogs-1/discogs-i18n/glossary/it/

    When a Glossary word appears in a string, then the English glossary term will appear underlined and the the suggested translation will appear under the Glossary tab in Transifex.

    Transifex's Glossary explanation:
    "A glossary helps to standardize the way terms in your Project are translated, increasing the consistency and the quality of the translations. As a result, it is especially useful, when multiple translators collaborate on a Project. It is also necessary, when the Project contains many specialized terms that need to have an exact translation, for instance legal or other technical documents."
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    I am pinging all italian translators to let them know about this discussion, after all only three people (besides Weetzie) ever wrote to this thread.

    laserta
    chn74
    Toniroma84
    DavideCarrozza
    aittamattia
    MDT360
    motleygian
    trabuccoitalia
    fitzstudio
    alexmuse1987
    zintu
    Mrcpr
    Mr.Alb
    peppermintwist
    matboss72
    InfiniteColors
    Ghostnote19
  • fitzstudio over 3 years ago

    fitzstudio edited over 3 years ago
    Hi to all
    sorry, but when I joined the team I had much more free time and now I don't have it anymore :(
  • fitzstudio over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    Capitalization
    Should we capitalize words as English does?
    Example: "Create an Account" => "Crea un Account"
    Maybe it's ok to just do as the original English sentence?


    i think it's better "Crea un account"
    in italian capitalization is much less used than in english and "Cean un Account" would be marked as error at school as "account" it's not a "proper noun" :)
  • fitzstudio over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    Post (noun): post, messaggio
    I think post is now a common term that can be used untranslated.


    Yes, but i think that "messaggio" would be understood by 100% of italian users, while post by 97/98%
    not ALL italians have forum experiences and most of them have only facebook experience where "post" is translated "messaggio" so it's possible they never heard the word "post"
  • fitzstudio over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    Marketplace: Marketplace, mercato, mercato musicale, mercatino, negozio
    I prefer to leave the term untranslated. Currently there are some translations to mercato, but I think I never seen the word "mercato" on e-commerce sites, so I am in favour of leaving the term untranslated. Opinions?


    better mercato, marketplace wouldn't be understood by many users: there are to many italians with zero-english-knowledge
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    English => Italian

    Contribution => Contributo
    Contribute => Contribuire
    Contributor => Collaboratore, (sometimes: coloro che hanno contribuito, or contributi di)

    I keep on disagree on this.
    If you use "contribuire/ contributo", you must use "contributore" too. It's perfectly legal Italian.

    ugilio

    Feedback => Feedback

    Riscontro

    ugilio
    Item => Articolo, Oggetto ?

    Vote for "articolo"

    ugilio
    Marketplace => Marketplace

    Mercato. Absolutely.

    ugilio
    Merge => Fondere, Unire ?

    This I found a very peculiar translation, such as many options, none of them very strict.
    I add "accorpare", "unificare" for the community to choose.

    ugilio
    Post (noun) => Post

    why can't we use "messaggio"?

    ugilio
    Submission => Contributo

    I think here we have to get a difference with "contribution"
    Quite hard, but must be done as id there a difference in english.
    Hope Weetzie could confirm, "contribution" is some added to the database, "submission" is something proposed by an user to the DB, to be added.
    Therefore, I propose translating this as "suggerimento", "inserimento" or "proposta di modifica", but I know it has to be deeply debated.

    ugilio
    Submit => Inserire (when inserting a new release), Inviare (all other uses).

    Must have coherence with "submission".

    ugilio
    Submitter => Collaboratore (see Contributor)

    as above

    ugilio
    Wantlist => Wantlist

    Here we have to translate this and "wishlist".
    For me, the first is something I'm searching for in concrete, the latter something I would like to have but I'm actually not searching for, isn't it?
    Then, I would go for "lista della spesa" e "lista dei desideri"
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    fitzstudio, I agree with you for the capitalization rules.

    For "post", actually facebook uses "message" for private messages, and "post" to describe a post on a user's wall ("A Mario Rossi piace il post di Luca Bianchi nel suo diario"). I don't think people will not understand. However, maybe it would be more consistent for us to have both "thread" and "post" translated or not: that is, if we go for "discussione" (thread) we also go for "messaggio" (post), otherwise we leave them both untranslated.
    So maybe now I agree with you on "messaggio".

    Marketplace: I don't think people will not understand marketplace. My grandma used to say "supermarket" instead of supermercato even if she did not know English :) . Also, Amazon uses "Marketplace" in italian to describe the place where third-party sellers sell their goods to customers: that is, when you are buying through amazon.it but not from amazon, but from another seller, you are buying in the marketplace. And this is exactly what the Discogs Marketplace is. See here and here.
    I think "mercato" sounds bad: for a website it reminds me of "financial market" or something like that. I think that's the reason websites like Amazon decided to leave the term untranslated too.
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    Before, I posted without reading this.
    I only want to add

    ugilio
    Accorpare: "X ha accorpato questo ordine in Y", "Accorpa", "Accorpa queste due release", "Accorpato", "Accorpamenti di release in attesa", "Release accorpate recentemente", "Questa release ha già un'accorpamento in attesa".

    This solution seems the best one.
    But I would say "X ha accorpato questo ordine CON Y" oppure " questo ordine è stato accorpato con Y da X"
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    Marketplace: I don't think people will not understand marketplace. My grandma used to say "supermarket" instead of supermercato even if she did not know English :) . Also, Amazon uses "Marketplace" in italian to describe the place where third-party sellers sell their goods to customers: that is, when you are buying through amazon.it but not from amazon, but from another seller, you are buying in the marketplace. And this is exactly what the Discogs Marketplace is. See here and here.
    I think "mercato" sounds bad: for a website it reminds me of "financial market" or something like that. I think that's the reason websites like Amazon decided to leave the term untranslated too.

    I still say "supermercato", am I too old? :D
    I think many sites (in electronic, for instance) keep using english words without any proper need and we got to have a more user-friendly translation.
    Then, I still vote for "mercato". It reminds to me mainly the street market, that is a lovely thing :)
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    laserta, while I understand that some terms are perfectly legal in Italian, they simply aren't commonly used and sound a little bit awkward or "burocratic".
    If Discogs was written in Italian from scratch, probably no one would ever have used these words.
    I think there is a tradeoff between finding the most exact translation of an English word and finding the Italian words that better serve the purpose, even if it does not match 100% with the original translation.
    That is, I don't really want to introduce ugly terms like the infamous "briffare", but neither I would translate "mouse" and "server" with "topo" and "servente".

    So I think that some terms really sound old and distant, and we should take as an example major websites/operating systems where professional translators solved some of these issues before.

    In this respect, I take "Contributore" as an example: it is something you rarely use outside burocratic/official context, and it does not sound very friendly: to me, it sounds like an old professor addressing you :) .

    laserta

    Feedback => Feedback
    Riscontro

    Feedback is now in common use. Ebay uses that too. Compare "Lascia un punteggio di feedback" with "Lascia un punteggio di riscontro". Doesn't the second sound bad?

    laserta

    Marketplace => Marketplace
    Mercato. Absolutely.

    See my other answer to la_rivoluzione_siamo_noi above.

    laserta

    Merge => Fondere, Unire ?
    This I found a very peculiar translation, such as many options, none of them very strict.
    I add "accorpare", "unificare" for the community to choose.

    Ok

    laserta

    Post (noun) => Post
    why can't we use "messaggio"?

    Because "post" is now commonly used. But I agree with you and la_rivoluzione_siamo_noi, see my post above.

    laserta

    Submission => Contributo

    I think here we have to get a difference with "contribution"
    Quite hard, but must be done as id there a difference in english.
    Hope Weetzie could confirm, "contribution" is some added to the database, "submission" is something proposed by an user to the DB, to be added.
    Therefore, I propose translating this as "suggerimento", "inserimento" or "proposta di modifica", but I know it has to be deeply debated.

    Uhm, I think "Contribution" is a more general term, specifying that in some ways you contributed with your work to the database.
    Submission describes more precisely some piece of data that has been sent, but I think there is no harm to merge the two terms in Italian, for the sake of having a nice term to use. Moreover, if you look at "My submissions" pages, the English version too seems to use both terms (Export my Contributions, Clear My Saved Submissions).
    However, while I think "suggerimento" does not fit, maybe "inserimento" could. ("I miei inserimenti"? "Elimina i miei inserimenti salvati"?). I still think "contributo" sounds better ("I miei contributi". "Elimina i miei contributi salvati").

    laserta

    Submit => Inserire (when inserting a new release), Inviare (all other uses).

    Must have coherence with "submission".

    I agree, but I think that not all occurrences are paired with "submission". That is, you also "submit" a form of generic data. That's why I added also a more generic meaning.

    laserta

    Wantlist => Wantlist

    Here we have to translate this and "wishlist".
    For me, the first is something I'm searching for in concrete, the latter something I would like to have but I'm actually not searching for, isn't it?
    Then, I would go for "lista della spesa" e "lista dei desideri"


    But if I am not wrong, I think in Discogs there is not the term "wishlist", but only "wantlist". I think wantlist is the wishlist, so we could translate it with "lista desideri" if we decide to not leave the term untranslated (I prefer "lista desideri" over "lista dei desideri" because it is shorter, and it already makes the drop-down menu too wide: that's also why I was seriously considering to leave the term untranslated).

    laserta

    I still say "supermercato", am I too old? :D
    I think many sites (in electronic, for instance) keep using english words without any proper need and we got to have a more user-friendly translation.
    Then, I still vote for "mercato". It reminds to me mainly the street market, that is a lovely thing :)

    I say "supermercato" too! :) This was only to say that there is no risk that people won't understand "Marketplace".
    But, the fact that other sites uses the word is because this is the trend: I think doing differently would sound strange.
    By the way, following your thought, "Mercatino" would be even better, since it is the street market where you go to dig for vinyls :) . But I think it sounds even worse in a website like this :)
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    laserta, while I understand that some terms are perfectly legal in Italian, they simply aren't commonly used and sound a little bit awkward or "burocratic".
    If Discogs was written in Italian from scratch, probably no one would ever have used these words.
    I think there is a tradeoff between finding the most exact translation of an English word and finding the Italian words that better serve the purpose, even if it does not match 100% with the original translation.
    That is, I don't really want to introduce ugly terms like the infamous "briffare", but neither I would translate "mouse" and "server" with "topo" and "servente".

    Pay attention!
    Obviously "mouse" is a whole different thing in English too, the controller versus the animal, so is not a fair example :D
    We're not talking about "literal" translation (I could propose "dispositivo di comando" just in case ;-) ), but about translating it or not.
    The fair example could be "computer". Everyone in Italy knows what's that all about, but there is a translation, "calcolatore", that anyone use, but still exist. And in France (chauvinism?) they use a translation, "ordinateur". We don't, it's ok, this must be agreed.
    But... I don't think words like "feedback" or "post" are consolidated in Italian like "computer", not at all, this is my point.
    You understimate the average age of Italian users in here, often old "fricchettoni" collecting vinyls since the 60's, when even lyrics were translated, in Italy.
    No, I won't go for a teen-speaking Italian translation ;-)

    ugilio
    Compare "Lascia un punteggio di feedback" with "Lascia un punteggio di riscontro". Doesn't the second sound bad?

    "Lascia un riscontro"

    ugilio
    I agree, but I think that not all occurrences are paired with "submission". That is, you also "submit" a form of generic data. That's why I added also a more generic meaning.

    This must be translated as "invia"

    ugilio
    But if I am not wrong, I think in Discogs there is not the term "wishlist", but only "wantlist".

    You are, wrong ;-)
    And yes, this must be translated, no one use these terms in Italy ;-)

    ugilio
    I think wantlist is the wishlist, so we could translate it with "lista desideri" if we decide to not leave the term untranslated (I prefer "lista desideri" over "lista dei desideri" because it is shorter, and it already makes the drop-down menu too wide: that's also why I was seriously considering to leave the term untranslated).

    "desidèri" o "desiderati"?

    ugilio
    I say "supermercato" too! :) This was only to say that there is no risk that people won't understand "Marketplace".
    But, the fact that other sites uses the word is because this is the trend: I think doing differently would sound strange.
    By the way, following your thought, "Mercatino" would be even better, since it is the street market where you go to dig for vinyls :) . But I think it sounds even worse in a website like this :)

    No, "mercatino" as I was reminding only the generic street market, with food and clothes and varous home devices ;-)

    Mercato, definitely!
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    laserta

    But... I don't think words like "feedback" or "post" are consolidated in Italian like "computer", not at all, this is my point.
    You understimate the average age of Italian users in here, often old "fricchettoni" collecting vinyls since the 60's, when even lyrics were translated, in Italy.
    No, I won't go for a teen-speaking Italian translation ;-)

    I totally agree with you on the teen-speaking side, I shudder when I hear some "neologisms": I think our differences lie in where to set the bar.

    Sometimes when I am in doubt I check what others do, to see if there is already an established terminology to adhere to. In this respect, "feedback" is used by amazon and ebay, "post" is used by facebook. And the vast majority of online italians are users of these websites. If we were pioneers in this respect (that is, be the first to have the need to translate "feedback") I might agree with you, but I think it is strange that two sites that use the same exact terminology in their English versions (Discogs vs ebay vs amazon) then differ in their italian versions. In other words, I think we should not be original, and adapt to the common use.

    I am afraid that doing thing too much differently would make Discogs resemble one of the websites of Italian Public Administration, when the majority of other sites (including "serios" sites like banks, gas companies, postal company) use another lexicon.

    (I think we will have a long discussion on "Release" :D )

    laserta

    Compare "Lascia un punteggio di feedback" with "Lascia un punteggio di riscontro". Doesn't the second sound bad?

    "Lascia un riscontro"

    I am not sure it will work in all cases. Maybe "valutazione"? (though I prefer feedback)

    laserta

    I agree, but I think that not all occurrences are paired with "submission". That is, you also "submit" a form of generic data. That's why I added also a more generic meaning.

    This must be translated as "invia"

    Yes, as I wrote before, so we agree :)

    laserta

    But if I am not wrong, I think in Discogs there is not the term "wishlist", but only "wantlist".

    You are, wrong ;-)
    And yes, this must be translated, no one use these terms in Italy ;-)


    Uhm... I just checked and I could not find any occurrence of "wishlist" (or "wish list") in both the original and translated strings (I downloaded the whole translation .po file to easily perform spell check, find occurences and so on).

    laserta

    I think wantlist is the wishlist, so we could translate it with "lista desideri" if we decide to not leave the term untranslated (I prefer "lista desideri" over "lista dei desideri" because it is shorter, and it already makes the drop-down menu too wide: that's also why I was seriously considering to leave the term untranslated).
    "desidèri" o "desiderati"?

    I was thinking "Lista desidèri" as the shorter form of "Lista dei desideri". I think it is more common.

    laserta

    I say "supermercato" too! :) This was only to say that there is no risk that people won't understand "Marketplace".
    But, the fact that other sites uses the word is because this is the trend: I think doing differently would sound strange.
    By the way, following your thought, "Mercatino" would be even better, since it is the street market where you go to dig for vinyls :) . But I think it sounds even worse in a website like this :)

    No, "mercatino" as I was reminding only the generic street market, with food and clothes and varous home devices ;-)

    Mercato, definitely!

    Well, there is always the possibility to try to use one term and see if it fits. That is, changing all other occurrences to mercato and test it for a week. It is not too hard to change all occurrences back in case.
    (but I still don't like mercato :P)
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    I am not sure it will work in all cases. Maybe "valutazione"? (though I prefer feedback)


    "valutazione" must be specified in genre, "riscontro" not
  • matboss72 over 3 years ago

    Hello everybody. I need more free time in order to follow this project. Unfortunately I'm pretty busy in this period. I hope to have more time in the near future. Sorry. :)
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    Ghostnote19 edited over 3 years ago
    Hi guys! I have just joined the team and I will help with translations.

    I think that some terms should stay untranslated. Not just because of common use, but also because it makes communication clear and avoids confusion, when users are from different countries.

    Therefore, I would keep untranslated: Marketplace, Post, Feedback and Link.

    Thanks all for your contribution (no need to translate this)! :D
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    I added these guidelines:

    Listing => annuncio
    List for sale => mettere in vendita
    Listing can be translated as "annuncio" (ebay style). However "to list for sale" can be better rendered with "mettere in vendita". I translated "unlist" as "ritirare dalla vendita" while "delete listing" is "elimina annuncio".

    Policy => Regola (general meaning)
    Shipping policy => Politica di spedizione
    This has a very precise meaning in Discogs, it is the rule you define for shipping (e.g. Worldwide etc) and also has a dedicated editor.
    Privacy policy => Informativa sulla privacy

    History => Cronologia, Cronologia modifiche
    The "history" that you see when you click on "Edit" (on an Artist, release etc) is really the history of changes on that entity. For this reason I used "Cronologia modifiche" instead of just "Cronologia" or "Storico". In some other contexts I used Cronologia alone (e.g sales history => cronologia vendite).

    Ghostnote19

    Therefore, I would keep untranslated: Marketplace, Post, Feedback and Link.

    Today I changed all occurrences of Post :( . I think there are no readability problems, you can search and see if it fits.

    Side note: I see you are from Discogs' staff. Do you represent the staff view? In other words, do you have the last word in case of controversies? It might be useful if we don't manage to reach consensus on some matters in the future...
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    I see you are from Discogs' staff. Do you represent the staff view? In other words, do you have the last word in case of controversies? It might be useful if we don't manage to reach consensus on some matters in the future...


    Yes, I am from Discogs staff, but I'm not going to have the last word. I am here to help translating, when possible. In case of controversies, we will discuss and find an agreement together. I think this is the best way.

    ugilio
    Today I changed all occurrences of Post :( . I think there are no readability problems, you can search and see if it fits.


    First example of what I stated above :) Keeping the English word is just my opinion, feel free to discuss about it
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    Ciao guys!

    I'm not sure if I need to translate "VAT" with "IVA" even if the VAT refers to a non-Italian company. What do you think?

    Thanks for helping!
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    I think IVA should always be used. It is the same exact tax (Value Added Tax vs Imposta sul Valore Aggiunto).
    Also, amazon.it always calls it "IVA", even for countries different from Italy.
    References:
    https://www.amazon.it/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=201239400
    https://www.amazon.it/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=200556990
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    Thanks ugilio, will use that.
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    Hey guys!

    It's great to see that translations are almost done. Thank you all!

    I still have doubts about the word "submission". I would use "inserimento" but I'm not sure at all. Any suggestion? Let's vote! :D

    Quick update: Lately I have been to a record fair and asked some Italian users / sellers / contributors if they translate all words. Most of them use the English word for feedback, post, release, marketplace. Release is also translated " Pubblicazione"
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    Hi,

    in the last month I checked all strings to uniformate them, and I added missing translations.
    However I left out the terms upon which there was no agreement (submission, wantlist, release, and so on...).
    More on that later.

    I changed some translations:

    Credits (for artists' roles) => Riconoscimenti
    Credits (for seller fees) => Crediti
    (I think no comment is needed here)

    Expire (for inventory) => Congelare
    This is because "Expiring" the inventory is an action that a seller can use to to suspend all inventory, e.g. because he is going to vacation.
    But, "to suspend" the inventory is already used when the account is suspended due to missing payments. So we cannot use suspend word, and I thought that the literal translation (e.g. "Fai scadere l'inventario") is very strange. So I chose "Congelare" that I think fits the idea (you freeze your inventory, and can de-freeze it later)

    I also have some doubts:

    Lathe cut. Ok, initially I thought it was the "master" from which the vinyl was pressed, and I was tempted to translate it to something like "disco master per vinile".
    But, it turns out that this might be any record which has been cut with a lathe instead of being pressed: so, a limited edition of 10 copies which have been individually cut with a lathe (and are thus a little bit different from each other) is a lathe cut. Indeed, the "master" will probably be entered as an "acetate", not as a lathe cut.
    So I was thinking to "disco inciso", to differentiate it from a "pressed record". What do you think? Does somebody now if there is an established terminology in Italian to designate this kind of record?

    Capitalization of "Terms of service" and so on.
    Ok, so in Italian we don't use capitalization as much English does. But, should something like "Terms of service" be capitalized? In other words, are them proper nouns which deserve a capital letter or not? Examples: "Leggi i Termini di servizio" vs "Leggi i termini di servizio". "Leggi l'Informativa sulla privacy" vs "Leggi l'informativa sulla privacy".
    Capitalization of Database: in English senteces, the Database is written with the big D, because it is not a generic database, but the Discogs' one. Should we capitalize it as well?

    Then, for what Ghostnote19 was saying: I think we should try to write down some sentences and see how the different translations sound. I think that a lot of italians that use Discogs use the English terms because Discogs has always been in English, so for them now that's the "natural" vocabulary.
    For the specific case of "pubblicazione", I really never heard people in record stores use that word. I still prefer "Edizione" ("Questa è l'edizione del 1995") but I am not sure if would fit everywhere. As I said, we should try to write down some sentences and see what work and what do not.

    For me, the terms to discuss are:
    Release, Contribution/Contributor, Submitter/Submission/Submit, Wantlist, Marketplace, Community, Merge, Feedback.
    I already expressed my ideas, but maybe I am reconsidering some. For example, I agree with the need of differentiating contribution and submission, which cannot be translated with the same word.
    Community is a "new entry", I didn't list it before. I'm in favour of leaving it untranslated ("La community di Discogs"). We should discuss whether to capitalize it or not.
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    I'm in favour of leaving it untranslated ("La community di Discogs"). We should discuss whether to capitalize it or not.

    You don't like "Comunità"?
    It is used on the net.
    Regarding "credits" on a release, I think it would be perfect "ringraziamenti" as italian artist use on their booklet.
    To give a credit is recognizing some help and, then, thanking people for it on the release.
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    laserta
    You don't like "Comunità"?
    It is used on the net.

    Yes, maybe comunità is good too.
    laserta

    Regarding "credits" on a release, I think it would be perfect "ringraziamenti" as italian artist use on their booklet.
    To give a credit is recognizing some help and, then, thanking people for it on the release.

    Wait, I am not talking about something like "The artist thanks this and that" but about the name of the "roles" section: the credits. That is, in a release we have these credits (riconoscimenti):
    X : guitar
    Y : drums
    Z: cover art
    Also, when you go to X's profile, you can see the "Credits" section.
    This is because I think "Crediti" and "Credito" do not fit when speaking about these things... no? "Riconoscimento" means a certain role/work/contribute has been acknowledged in the production of a record.
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    ugilio
    about the name of the "roles" section: the credits

    Apart of the normal line up group, you mean?
    Collaborazioni
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    laserta
    Apart of the normal line up group, you mean?
    Collaborazioni

    No, I mean the normal lineup.
    E.g here: Judas Priest - Screaming For Vengeance the "Credits" section would be translated as "Riconoscimenti". (Credits = roles who are credited, acknowledged. So "riconoscimenti").
  • laserta over 3 years ago

    Talking about all artists involved, could be translated "artisti" o "personale"
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    Hi,

    Here's my suggestion:

    Release = Release
    Contribution/Contributor = Contributo/Collaboratore
    Submitter/Submission/Submit = (I still have doubts)
    Wantlist + Wantlist
    Marketplace = Marketplace
    Community = Community
    Merge = Unire, Unificare
    Feedback = Feedback

    I agree with ugilio about "Riconoscimenti" (it is actually referred to different roles, therefore it should be a generic word, like suggested).

    Great choice for "Congelare"!

    I would leave Lathe Cut untranslated.

    About capitalizing, I tend to conform to Discogs guidelines, so I do capitalize when needed.
  • Ghostnote19 over 3 years ago

    I'm translating some new strings.

    Merge ... Unire o fondere? What do you think?
  • ugilio over 3 years ago

    A would give "accorpare" (at least for releases) a chance.
    Sorry for not having answered before, I was a little bit busy.
    For capitalization, please notes that Italian has some rules, so we should not capitalize except for some cases (proper nouns, or after a full stop).

    For the other terms you listed, I'd like to post some tries of different translations to see how they fit but I didn't have time for it yet.
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 2 years ago

    Ciao!

    We will be releasing the Central Authentication Service (CAS) login changes very soon, and Italian is the only language that hasn't made it to 100% translated. If you have a moment, please consider adding a couple translations:
    https://www.transifex.com/discogs-1/discogs-cas/translate/#it/en/79970110?translated=no

    Thanks, Italian team!
  • Mr.Alb over 2 years ago

    I've done my best, but those sentences don't belong to a "Discogs Dictionary", they seem to be too much technical. It's an informatic language that i can't understand even in italian :D!!! For instance, "one-time password" is the same of "password valida per un unico accesso"?? I really don't know what it means...
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 2 years ago

    Mr.Alb - You're right, some of those sentences are pretty technical. And some of them are definitely hard to understand without context. I'll spend some time going through all of the remaining strings tomorrow to add context. Thanks for the help and response!
  • Mr.Alb over 2 years ago

    Mr.Alb edited over 2 years ago
    I translated all CAS project until now and discogs-i18n excepts two sentences, but i have two questions. What do you mean with "Discogs Logo" and in particular with "Brand Guidelines"?? Then, the sentence below is inappropriate, in my opinion, for italian language. We don't have possessive construction and capitalizing letter that aren't proper nouns is not correct at all. how can i do with it?
    "The correct possessive form is Discogs’. Discogs specific terms should always be capitalized when refering to them as proper nouns."

    thank u
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 2 years ago

    Mr.Alb
    What do you mean with "Discogs Logo" and in particular with "Brand Guidelines"?


    Hi, thanks for the help!

    Here is the Brand Guidelines page: https://www.discogs.com/brand

    Here is the main Discogs logo: https://www.discogs.com/images/brand/discogs-logo.svg

    Mr.Alb
    We don't have possessive construction and capitalizing letter that aren't proper nouns is not correct at all. how can i do with it?
    "The correct possessive form is Discogs’. Discogs specific terms should always be capitalized when refering to them as proper nouns."


    I'll have to check in with our marketing manager to see what he thinks about this. I'll get back to you ASAP!
  • hazed81 over 2 years ago

    Thanks for your help Mr.Alb!

    We should follow your own languages best practices here. The exception to this rule is if using the one of the words in a navigation element, button, or menu–if that is the case, please capitalize.

    Hope that helps clarify! Thanks again!
  • Mr.Alb over 2 years ago

    Mr.Alb edited over 2 years ago
    Seam splits could be translated with "spaccature"? Vocabulary translates seam with cuciture, but it doesn't make sense for me.
    "The picture sleeve may be water damaged, split on all three seams, or heavily marred by wear and writing."
  • laserta over 2 years ago

    laserta edited over 2 years ago
    Concerning the cover, IMHO
    Spine: Dorso
    Seam: Costola
    Split: Spaccatura/ Fenditura
    Seams split (the spine/ seam is opened by a hole caused by breaking/ wear): Rottura (generic) or Spaccatura delle costole
  • Mr.Alb over 2 years ago

    Many thanks, laserta!!
  • laserta over 2 years ago

    You're welcome! :-)
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie over 2 years ago

    Hi all, you'll notice that there are a lot of new untranslated strings that were just added to Transifex. Styles and Genres are finally translatable! Feel free to discuss here or in one of the general Database forums if you get stuck on how to translate a style, or if a style should even be translated.
    Thanks for all of your help!
  • Mr.Alb over 2 years ago

    Can anyone review what i have already translated? I could do it, but it doesn't make sense given that i submitted them myself. thks
  • laserta over 2 years ago

    I'm using the "ITALIANO" version since a few days: as a consequence, I'll put in here notes concerning some translation, as a reminder for me and to share comments and actions with everyone in here.

    I think the fitter and most common translation for "release" is "edizione"
    1) In the edit form for releases, still you can read "Modifica release"
    2) comments for editing made is still in english
    3) on release page, up-right, you can find the link to editing is written as "Modifica pubblicazione"

    More to come as soon as I'll ride more "italiano" discogs pages ;)
  • Mr.Alb about 1 year ago

    Some sentences maybe haven't been translated or some translators have thought that leaving immutate english words was a smart way to globalize the specialist language of Discogs. Anyway, i think that "release" could be translated as "edizione", but also as "pubblicazione". In italian they are synonymous and both represent different version of the same item.
  • Mr.Alb about 1 year ago

    Mr.Alb edited about 1 year ago
    Weetzie
    Styles and Genres are finally translatable!

    No they aren't, unfortunately. Most of them haven't the exact corresponding form in italian. If you agree i suggest that administrator delete them from our italian project
  • Staff 71

    Weetzie about 1 year ago

    Mr.Alb
    Most of them haven't the exact corresponding form in italian. If you agree i suggest that administrator delete them from our italian project


    Unfortunately the way that we are pulling in Genres and Styles, either we can translate ALL of them or NONE of them. I know that's a bit of a pain - but I believe in some languages it will be nice to have the opportunity to translate some of those genres and styles.

    If the Italian and English word should be the same, either you can add the original string as a "translation" or leave that string without a translation and the English version will display as default.
  • Mr.Alb about 1 year ago

    Sounds good! Thank you again.

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