• Nekro over 6 years ago

    is there room for another hardcore sub-genre?
  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    Yes.
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    lol crossbreed another shallow trend.
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    with more silly genres like crossbreed arriving, i guess hardcore will eventually take the metal road and we will end with subgenre names like "vegetarian blackened crossbreeddrumnbassdoomdarkdeathcore"...
  • andreinstein over 6 years ago

    I don't care about genres...as long as I can find tracks I like...anyone who thinks otherwise is just single-minded to me haha...
    Sub-genres exist for a reason. If I go to a shop and tell them 'show me the hardcore section', they'll probably take me to some Black Flag reissues or Dead Kennedys..
  • 0frg over 6 years ago

    Not really just a hardcore subgenre IMO, rather a "drum&bass meets hardcore and/or dubstep" crossover.
  • 2Styliztik over 6 years ago

    NEW sub-genre? Genosha One Seven Five is the leader in this style and their first release was in 2009.

    On a related note, my vinyl copy of UNION 005 is several shades of awesome.

  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    who really gives a fuck about the names though? crossbreed stuff still gets played with other styles of hardcore, and hard d&b. so who cares if people decided to give it a name?

    it's still nice that people are trying new variations on the hardcore sound, and that's all it is really, it's not a revolution, just a different approach.

    plus it's helped mix things up a bit, you have more d&b people getting involved in hardcore and vice versa, i think that's good.

    i know some will scoff at any new sounds in hardcore, and some will just want things to stay forever the same, but there's no such things as "too many subgenres". that just means variety, surely that's a good thing? it's only a problem if people stick to one narrow sub-genre over everything else and i don't think that's really happened with this...

  • Nekro over 6 years ago

    can someone explain to me what is crossbreed? i've only just noticed this term being used
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    well as i said before, this is laughable to me. combining one techno subgenre with another "techno" subgenre. how inventive, how creative! there is so many music around this world, but no, 'hardcore' gets combined with another "hard" electronic subgenre. how dull.
  • 2Styliztik over 6 years ago

    Why is it laughable and dull?

    Interstingly, there's an excellent/harsh DNB track on this release which Discogs classes as Breakcore which could be intepreted as Crossbred.
    http://www.discogs.com/Low-Entropy-Low-Entropy/release/167133

    I can understand your frustration, but your body of material kinda contradicts your stance.
  • Jayfive over 6 years ago


    Nekro
    can someone explain to me what is crossbreed?


    Tracks where you cant tell if its a DnB track with sections of 4/4 distorted kicks or a hardcore techno track with DnB sections XD

    LowEntropy
    how dull.


    A lot of the music isnt dull, but I agree that the lauding of this as some new amazing innovation is a bit.
  • Jayfive over 6 years ago


    2Styliztik
    Interstingly, there's an excellent/harsh DNB track on this release which Discogs classes as Breakcore which could be intepreted as Crossbred.
    http://www.discogs.com/Low-Entropy-Low-Entropy/release/167133


    And nearly 10 years old, which is the point LE is trying to make...
  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    that happens all across music though, two sounds which have some common elements and sounds but are different are bound to come together.

    if you found that dull i'm not sure why just straight hardcore isn't just as dull?

    plus it is inevitably influenced by other music as well anyway, just as both hardcore and d&b are individually - metal, dubstep, hip hop, film soundtracks, ambient...

  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    is anyone *really* lauding it as an amazing new innovation though? just because it's popular at the moment and has a name?

    that doesn't necessarily imply it's a revolution in sound...it's just the newest version of an old idea.
  • Jayfive over 6 years ago


    traffic_cone
    is anyone *really* lauding it as an amazing new innovation though?


    Give it time.... :P
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    2Styliztik
    Why is it laughable and dull?

    Interstingly, there's an excellent/harsh DNB track on this release which Discogs classes as Breakcore which could be intepreted as Crossbred.
    http://www.discogs.com/Low-Entropy-Low-Entropy/release/167133

    I can understand your frustration, but your body of material kinda contradicts your stance.


    thanks for liking this track; out of curiosity, which one do you mean?
    but i wrote this music about a decade ago, long before the term "crossbreed" came around.
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    well basically you are right, it is just a genre name, best not to worry about it.
    but what annoys me a bit is that a lot of people, not on this forum but elsewhere, already hype as the big new thing that is gonna take the scene by storm, and i don't think that will happen.
  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    Retaliation off that is one of my favourite breakcore tracks.

  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    thanks :)
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    @2Styliztik: btw i uploaded the 2nd part of that "anarchize" track from that widerstand album as a free download to my soundcloud today... nice coincidence ;-)

    http://soundcloud.com/low-entropy/low-entropy-anarchize-part-2
  • Hardmageddon over 6 years ago

    Agree, shalow trend.
    it's not even a new genre, the dnb (aka jungle back then) and hardcore fusion is as old as gabber.
  • Nekro over 6 years ago

    ok, im still not entirely sure what this sub-genre name represents. is this not just breakcore/drill n bass/hard drum n bass?
  • 0frg over 6 years ago

    I would say that basically the term encompasses various ways to hybridate hardcore and (rather dense) drum&bass beats, without one really predating the other. Sometimes they simply alternate (e.g. 8 times of 4/4 hardcore kicks, 8 times of d&b beats, 8 times of hardcore kicks etc.), sometimes typical d&b percussion samples are playing a rather 4/4 way, sometimes hardcore kicks and d&b percussions are interleaved a more complex/irregular/varying way. All of this generally with a dark/sci-fi influenced atmosphere.
    For sure fusing d&b with hardcore is not new but the way of fusing them is new IMO. Crossbreed is clearly different from breakcore in my opinion although I would fail to explain clearly the differences. It was innovating when it came out, of course it isn't anymore and it tends to get formulaic since it turned in a kind of trend, and tracks often sound similar. But after all this is not very different from hardcore in the mid 90's where 90% of tracks used exactly the same sounding bassdrums and Juno synths, and were built up the very same ways. I bet that in the early '90s house and techno lovers used to despise the Hardcore trend (even when it still was underground), thought it sounded all the same and blamed producers who joined the wagon at the time. Just like some hardcore heads despise crossbreed or dubstep nowadays.

    Trends and styles are just a canvas after all. No matter the canvas, it's up to the producer to make something good and/or original out of it. New canvasses will bring some freshness until they become usual as well, but they will still diversify the amount of models the producer can use as a starting point. Of course if they're something in that model that you just can't stand then you're screwed, but luckily it's not my case for crossbreed or dubstep.

    Personally the good ol' hardcore is still my main center of interest and is certainly gonna remain for long, but I like hearing some (good) crossbreed and dubstep from time to time.
  • LowEntropy over 6 years ago

    not to disagree with you 0frg, and being offtopic, but i want to point that there was also very interesting and experimental hardcore in the 90s.
    the stuff with the same juno pattern and 909s was just (more or less) the commercial type of hardcore.
    but with labels like fischkopf, praxis, GTI, brutal chud, napalm, and so on, there was sound made that was way different from the "commercial" gabber formula.
    in main europe these were two scenes (it was not that the napalm or fischkopf releases were just different-sounding tracks that were part of the "larger" hardcore scene including the generic juno / 909 stuff - it was a scene and world of it's own) that were hostile against each other, it's only nowadays that these scenes start to get mixed up with each other more.
    the techno and house crowd hated on hardcore (and i guess still does) because of the violence & aggression in the music, and because they did not want to follow the commercial route that labels like low spirit took back then.

    okay sorry for this superflous bit of history and for my rambling ;-)
  • AreaMZ over 6 years ago

    Crossbreed is such an odd genre name.
    All it says is I am the result of A + B.

    It is kind of funny that both styles have been around so long they are looking to each other for inspiration. Nothing new there though.

    There need to be universal symbols for each type of hardcore techno so they can be listed in order of relevance for a track. Like an ingredients list on food packaging! :)

  • ymberehitus over 6 years ago

    trans-gen-breed sounds like a trend ;-)
  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    thing is, as hardcore's been around for 20 years, there's far less new ground to break than there was in 1995. so of course "new" sounds are often just re-interpretations of old ideas.

    it's more of a 50:50 cross between hardcore & dnb - tracks switching between the two rhythms. but still very regular and structured.

    i think the differences between this and previous variants is that it's a crossover between modern d&b, with rigid, 2-steppy beats...whereas older hardcore used old funk breakbeats (as used in jungle, oldskool etc). and these breaks were used as an extra layer over the kicks, not a switch between the two.

    and it's different from breakcore, because breakcore is a lot broader than that, varies wildly in speed, and is a lot more non-repetitive and experimental, maybe in weird time signatures, not necessarily for mixing, etc etc. whereas crossbreed is still pretty straightforward dancefloor music.

    i know for some on here it's still automatically rubbish because it's new - but that's why i don't think it's "shallow"...
  • 0frg over 6 years ago

    traffic_cone - I think that's exactly that way I would have liked to explain it :)
    Also there is a big difference of "mood" between crossbreed and breakcore. Breakcore often (not always of course) has a fun and parodic aspect, doesn't take itself too seriously if I can put it that way, at least it looks to me like it's the most common attitude in the breakcore scene and you can feel it in the tracks. Whereas all crossbreed tracks I've heard have a strong dark ambiance inherited from the neurofunk kind of drum&bass.

    LowEntropy - of course I don't want to minimize the importance of alternative hardcore which was obviously much less formulaic already at the time :) Indeed an issue with crossbreed is that the formula seems to be in some ways more rigid than with regular hardcore which has a very broad spectrum of possibilities - and that is certainly an aspect that causes criticism towards crossbreed. However I'm aware of that and it doesn't prevent me from enjoying the tracks, the same way I still like some good oldschool mainstream hardcore with classic kicks and Juno sounds :)
  • Jayfive over 6 years ago

    0frg
    at least it looks to me like it's the most common attitude in the breakcore scene and you can feel it in the tracks.


    Its not unusual to associate a style of music with its most extreme exponents. I.e. in the case of breakcore more about V. Snares and Shitmat than (say) artists who release on Praxis.
  • traffic_cone over 6 years ago

    i'd agree with that about breakcore...i suspect maybe as a reaction to the po faced early stuff, eg DHR, Praxis. Although the mashcore stuff is often a bit too far the other way! I think the likes of Addict, Society Suckers etc have the balance right. not over-serious but not a joke either.

    to be fair Jayfive Shitmat and Snares are more representative of breakcore in general than Praxis! certainly now.

  • Hardmageddon over 6 years ago

    0frg
    Whereas all crossbreed tracks I've heard have a strong dark ambiance inherited from the neurofunk kind of drum&bass.

    So serious it sounds bloody ridiculous many times. I wonder if Bloody Fist were still around... would they take a piss on it?

  • UNDERGROUNDMUSIC over 6 years ago

    UNDERGROUNDMUSIC edited over 6 years ago
    Well Bloody Fist still is around in the guise of its founder. Who funnily enough plays a bit of crossbreed in his sets.

    Hardmageddon
    I wonder if Bloody Fist were still around... would they take a piss on it?

  • doubledipped over 6 years ago

    Hi all, nice topic,
    I think traffic_cone has made some spot on points in this thread
    - for me if I like the sound of something then I buy it
    and play it regardless of style, genre,sub genre
    names or if it is popular or despised.
    Also regarding old ideas being rehashed or incorporated
    again and again
    - is anything in this world really original especially
    in the world of electronic music

    I think crossbreed is useful as you can interchange
    between hard dnb to full on hardcore via crossbreed tracks.
    to me buying 'hard dnb' on obscene, freak,
    tech itch records hardcore influences were obvious in part
    and vice versa in some hardcore productions several years ago.
    I think by creating the sub genre name crossbreed just makes
    this fact 'official'
    I also like how now on releases you get one more hardcore styled
    track and another more hard dnb influenced track.

    Mark N definitely plays crossbreed tracks in his sets
    .check it out on youtube, also his set at live evil
    had a few crossbreed tracks?
  • Jayfive over 6 years ago


    traffic_cone
    to be fair Jayfive Shitmat and Snares are more representative of breakcore in general than Praxis!


    Yeah, I could have done with a better example :P
  • Grindmonster over 6 years ago

    ' Hardmageddon
    I wonder if Bloody Fist were still around... would they take a piss on it?'

    Haha, as Simon says
    you should check out some of the Mark N vids on Youtube!
    better still - see him if he plays at another Live Evil / other event
    The last one I saw was seriously good!
  • 0frg over 6 years ago


    Hardmageddon
    So serious it sounds bloody ridiculous many times.

    IMHO it sounds far less ridiculous than 99% of nowadays mainstream Cheesecore :)

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