• HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    I don't know this band at all but am curious about checking them out. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance.
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    mmm.... i'm not sure about them, i've got brown book, but the whole nazi are-they aren't they thing (not to mention the kind of maudlin even shitty goth air to it all) kind of put me off... that kind of thing is better off left in the 80s. When it became a 'thing' to use holocaust/nazi imagery after throbbing gristle it became a bit pointless. viz. the whole 'neofolk' thing, for me.

    HOWEVER, tony wakeford was in Death in June,

    and i very much enjoy http://www.discogs.com/Steven-Stapleton-Tony-Wakeford-Revenge-Of-The-Selfish-Shellfish/release/1994542 this album.... the almost goth-y bits actually contrast nicely with the NNWisms, making a more melodic NNW-style trip. And wakefords lyrics are pretty low in the mix anyway....
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago


    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    'thing' to use holocaust/nazi imagery


    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    the whole nazi are-they aren't they thing

    Well without bangin on about again I think you know enough about me to know I deffo aint into that sorta thing. Had no idea they were like that, perhaps I should avoid after all. Got any examples of DIJ using this nazi imagery type shit?
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    oh god yeah shmoo wasn't implyin you were!!
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=138572

    the skull thing on that is the insignia for an SS division

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_SS_Division_Totenkopf

    for a start
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    not that they're necessarily nazi or otherwise, it's just i personally am not too intersted in the whole flirting around with that imagery, it's a bit of a 'thing' in certain circles, like the whole neofolk thing, like i said.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    oh god yeah shmoo wasn't implyin you were!!

    Nah never thought you were bud, just sayin that's all.
    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    it's just i personally am not too intersted in the whole flirting around with that imagery,

    No, nor am I. Slayer flirted with shit like that too innit.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=138572

    the skull thing on that is the insignia for an SS division

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3rd_SS_Division_Totenkopf

    for a start

    Even if they aint nazi what's the point they're trying to make? Do they claim to be making some kinda profound artistic statement? Well if so it's lost on me.
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    yup i reckon. but, despite and as well as all that...

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    mmm.... i'm not sure about them


    musically. it's not something i ever feel the need to go and get from the collection.
    It's something I checked because of the loose Coil, connection really. Current 93 likewise. (Coil feel like they are in a different universe to all that, tbh, though, and I still listen to them all the time. They're one of the only 'bands' I'm at all approach completism with). I never listen to current 93 anymore either ever, but i'd be far more likely to go and get one of their albums even than dig out a DIJ record.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    HRD_Shmoo_XIII
    Slayer flirted with shit like that too innit.

    Mind you I'm pretty much convinced Slayer are not and never were nazi types. I've seen a fair few interviews with Tom Araya and he seems like one seriously mellow and happy dude, always laughing and smiling. Big hippie at heart I reckon.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    Coil

    I don't know them at all either, heard plenty about them here and been meaning to check em for yonks but unfortunately their stuff aint easy to find or cheap. Anything you would particularly recommend?
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks edited over 12 years ago
    - astral disaster
    - black light district - 1000 lights in a darkened room
    - time machines
    - musick to play in the dark volume 1

    in that order, probably, for starters.... there's LOTS more though....

    (edit just looked at prices for some of them, didnt realise they were so expensive nowadays... ebay's probably better for the cds...)
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    Nice one Baz, will deffo have a gander at those sometime. What sort of thing can I expect to hear out of curiosity? Mindblowing stuff I hope.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago


    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    ebay's probably better for the cds...)

    Yeah I reckon you're probably right. Just sold a wee bundle of CDs for peanuts on there meself hahaha... shan't bother with that again.
  • HRD_Shmoo_XIII over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    musick to play in the dark volume 1

    Copy of that for sale on ebay, might have a punt.

    Anyway, Skins just started, one of the only telly progs I bother watchin. Catch ya later.
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    ahha well enjoy shmoo! i'm watching stella street on youtube haha... yeah, coil = mindblowin stuff (for me anyway), give them a go... i'd be interested to hear what u reckon...
  • md over 12 years ago

    Even though so much of it sounds the same there's something about that sound that I'm really into. It's quite calming, somehow.

    Death In June - But, What Ends When The Symbols Shatter? is by far my favourite DIJ release, in particular the track "The Giddy Edge Of Light" which is one of my favourite tracks, full stop. I also like Brown Book, and Free Tibet is worth a listen (quite different from much DIJ, using a lot of electronic sounds).

    I'm not sure about the imagery either and I've heard arguments from various perspectives on it but have found them inconclusive which is apparently how he likes it - ambiguous. That ambiguity is enough for some commentators to condemn though (the argument being that nobody should be ambiguous about not wanting to be associated with Nazism).

    Here's one piece possibly worth reading: http://www.stewarthomesociety.org/dij.htm
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    halfway through that article, really good cheers for that md!!!
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago

    yep, belting article. good read! :)
  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago


    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    tony wakeford was in Death in June,


    and having read a bit more about HIM, well.... i am just as dubious about him as about DIJ!

    He seems to have for starters thoroughly shitty associates, bad taste in influences (julius evola), and continuing link with neo-fascit/nazi ideology and groups....

    I'm interested in current 93 connection with all this, David Tibet seems to have been quite fixated on similar things.

    Of course one can argue it is all rather dumb, manipulation of symbols by musicians who don't really understand or haven't thought things out deeply; however, apart from being a cop-out, someone obviously does understand to at least a degree and some sort of nazi/facist ideolgy seems to have coalesced around these things (and then neo-folk) along with ex national front people etc. And like Home says (in a sightly different context) this creates an ambiance where more extreme views can grow.
    oh well....

    any enjoyment of the album i mentioned is now rather tempered by these points. I wonder what Steven Stapleton thought/thinks about it?

  • octopussy over 12 years ago

    If you guys are interested in the use of nazi imagery, the connection to really dubious "societies" and similar links of some artists in the whole neofolk scene to very dubious movements, please check out this book: http://www.unrast-verlag.de/unrast,2,5,5.html (unfortunately in German).

    The guys in the neofolk forum have been ranting about the book a bit because (which is true), it displays things rather one-sided from the view of the anti-fascist movement, but I'm sympathetic to that and there needs to be someone who also has a critical view on that scene. When you read the book and all the connections of lots of the artists in the neofolk scene to overtly fascist festivals, congresses and book editors, you really scratch your head and ask yourself why these guys are wiggling around their ideologic views so much. A lot of it is quite obvious to me.

    By the way, Shmoo, you're absolutely right in asking what's the point those guys are trying to make? I have always wondered.
  • Rosebud over 12 years ago


    HRD_Shmoo_XIII

    I don't know them at all either, heard plenty about them here and been meaning to check em for yonks but unfortunately their stuff aint easy to find or cheap. Anything you would particularly recommend?
    posted about 9 hours ago. ( permalink | ignore user | report )
    HRD_Shmoo_XIII edited this message about 9 hours ago.
    Barry_Crumbcheeks wrote:quote selection
    - astral disaster
    - black light district - 1000 lights in a darkened room
    - time machines
    - musick to play in the dark volume 1

    in that order, probably, for starters.... there's LOTS more though....


    my recommendation

    Horse Rotorvators
    Scatology

    those 2 are the all-time classic Coil albums. Check them out. If you don't like anything on them there's something seriously wrong with you.

    the unnatural history compilations are very good too, certainly volume I

  • md over 12 years ago

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    and having read a bit more about HIM, well.... i am just as dubious about him as about DIJ!

    Yeah I've sworn off buying anything to do with Wakeford since I read he was once active with the National Front - even if he's said it was a mistake....how do you make that kind of mistake? Not that I find Sol Invictus that interesting (his voice is rather annoying to me) but I do have one or two of his tracks on a release here and there.

    Barry_Crumbcheeks
    I'm interested in current 93 connection with all this, David Tibet seems to have been quite fixated on similar things.

    I think Tibet is a weird one, definitely a bit touched and possibly easily influenced. Have you read England's Hidden Reverse? It seems that he's spent his whole life leaping from obsession to obsession...getting fixated on an idea or theme...and look where he seems to have ended up - a fairly devout Christian. Despite the eyebrow raising title I think Swastikas For Noddy is a fantastic album, but he may have been hanging with some less than savoury people at the time. I've not noticed anything suss with C93, really.

  • Barry_Crumbcheeks over 12 years ago


    md
    some less than savoury people at the time.


    freya aswyn, according to that article, who also appears on that album... yeah i dunnoo... it's a weird one. I think in some respects the that-era-C93 thing could be similar to 'intellectual fascism' that has been affected by certain groups (some of the modernists and their disdain for 'the masses' spring to mind) from time to time. Of course he was quite into Crowley at one time (93rd current....) and Crowley has a fairly unpleasent superman type thing going on, like in Moonchild the 'Cleansing war' theme. Pretty juvenile thinking, really, but holding some sort of fascination for some i guess. Not a stance that i've ever found convincing, though.

    md
    I've not noticed anything suss with C93, really.


    did you read through that wakeford article? it was just a couple of things in that... i think it's that the quotations (lyrical, thematic) are a bit obscure for anyone not versed in that 'scene', but things like imperium etc. are references to specific (dodgy) texts. anyways... it's an interesting point (obviously Home has his particular slant and understanding as well) as it's a different reading of something (C93 symbols and references) than we are usually treated to.

    md
    England's Hidden Reverse?


    No, I remember when it came out, i never got round to it..... what's it like? I find Keenan annoying sometimes. I remember him getting a lot of shit from some people for aspects of that book, i can't remember if it was for being to reverent or what though.
  • jmoortga over 12 years ago

    HRD_Shmoo_XIII
    don't know this band at all but am curious about checking them out.

    no reason to do so, better off wasting your money on something else.
  • plaguerecordings over 12 years ago

    md
    Not that I find Sol Invictus that interesting

    exactly.

    md
    Have you read England's Hidden Reverse? It seems that he's spent his whole life leaping from obsession to obsession...getting fixated on an idea or theme...and look where he seems to have ended up - a fairly devout Christian.

    bought it when it came out. nothing new in there. and no offense to people that work with him, but Tibet is a pathetic clown, obsessed by $ if u ask me. in the end, i think douglas p wasn't that "bad" after all. anyway, C93 is the **only** band of which i sold most titles i had (bought nearly all til "Of Ruine Or Some Blazing Starre"), simply because i can't stand tibet's behaviour (ego-maniac) any longer.
  • plaguerecordings over 12 years ago

    ps. the above remark about douglas p has nothing to do with "politics" btw. just FYI.
  • seraphin over 12 years ago

    i love bunkers so this one is my favourite
    http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=216550 (interested?location is the Channel Islands, Obviously German bunkers and nice ones indeed)

    on the other hand: flirting with nazi symbols is one thing but for instance that camouflage jacket he is wearing is not a replica (which can be found easily and cheap) but an original SS-camouflage jacket (believe me: costs heaps of money and you have to know your way to get hold of one).

    But i did like some of their tracks allthough it all dated badly didn't it?:)
  • Wackelpeter over 12 years ago

    Wackelpeter edited over 12 years ago
    no matter if dij are fascist or not... one thing they are surely: stupid boys still locked in their puberty dealing with symbols they don'T understand and mystifying even the smallest fart...
    same goes for all those people obsessed by runes like many within the neofolk scene or bands like sixth comm... who really believes in that kinky hokus pokus thing??? i only believe in harry potter ;o)

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