• foojar 9 months ago

    This started out as a comment reply to the Labyrinth 1+2 thread. However I thought it might be more suitable as a separate thread.

    I typed this up online. It’s a lot longer than intended, but as I’ve now done it I’ll post it and it can be ignored (or even mod deleted) as necessary. I don’t know if it will post as a complete post or it will have to be split.


    Like gandolfito63 in another thread, I would always prefer the real thing (at a reasonable price). However if it is an option for music to be released as a download on a Bandcamp type site or not at all, then I would rather at least have a download.

    I have similar concerns regarding the download sites. Unfortunately digital downloads rather than physical copies seems to be the future. With most people having mp3 playing devices to play their music on and a docking station if they want to connect to their sound system, it is simpler (and usually cheaper) to buy an instant download rather than a CD and rip the CD to mp3.

    Unless you like pop type music, it’s very difficult to buy a CD in a shop anywhere these days. I haven’t bought a CD in a shop for years, probably not since before HMV closed down. CDs can be bought online, but then p&p charges etc. can be expensive, or prohibitive if buying from outside the UK. Then, of course, the time it takes for the order to be processed and delivered. Physical copies of Imports have generally been very expensive, often more than twice the price of an English copy.

    Download sites have the advantage in many ways:
    Instant access – wherever you live in the world
    Cheap(er) - no physical media, no additional import costs
    Variety – access to a wide variety and artists that you would never be able to physically buy CDs for
    Artists have instant access to buyers all over the world. It gives them a chance to build up a fan base and sell their music to millions of customers
    Importantly, it gives artists a means of showcasing their music and a chance of making some money, something that could never be done if a physical CD was the only media available. For known artists, download sites can be a way of extending their fan base and more sales, for unheard of artists, this could make a lot of difference.

    There are also the disadvantages:
    The music is not copy protected and albums can easily be passed from one person to lots of others. Of course, the argument was the same with cassette tapes and CDs (unless protected), although there is a difference. Tape and CD copies were a physical media and often done just for friends and the quality may have been dubious. Despite what the companies might say, it was unlikely that this copying would have much effect on sales.

    A digital download is different. The file is just copied, retaining all its quality, and thus the copied file is no different to the original. Probably more sales would be lost than with other media, and probably a lot more depending on how popular the artist is (i.e. a pop artist with potentially millions of sales), but for most artists, the people who are given copies are probably those who wouldn’t have bought the album anyway.

    A downloaded file has no future value, unlike a physical CD. It’s not something that counts as an asset or can be sold on. Spend £100 on downloads and although you’ll get the enjoyment of the music, you won’t get any money back if you decide you don’t want them in the future – it’s a bit like renting them for as long as you like for £100. Spend £100 on CDs and they will still be there to sell on, whether it is for a few pence or for way more than you paid if they become a sought after rarity.

    I agree with what gandolfito63 says about Bandcamp and other sites and what could happen. As with anything, once there is a monopoly of something, the customers get squeezed one way or another and prices inevitably rise.
    I wouldn’t rely on any site that gives continuous access to downloads or streaming paid for downloads (e.g. Bandcamp). Access could be cut off instantly by the company. Therefore, I back up the files I buy and also burn the files (WAV) to CD as a further means of protection against losing them.

    Whilst anybody can create their own website and make their music available from there, in most cases these sites would remain unseen unless stumbled across during a search. Sites like Bandcamp, where people can browse through and play music gives unheard of artists a chance to be discovered. They can then always link to their own site from there. I have discovered (and bought downloads from) many artists in this way.

    The doom-mongers have been saying for some time that CDs will soon be something of the past. I’m not sure about that, but I think that over time they will eventually end up more as a niche thing in the way that LPs and tapes have become as record(?) companies decide that it is no longer profitable. The problem is if the equipment to play them on is still available to buy in, say 20 years time. More worrying for me is that DVDs seem to be starting to go the same way. Films and episodes are available for streaming either for a limited time or as a permanent download. However, as far as I’m aware, unlike the music digital downloads from Bandcamp etc. that can be played anywhere with no restrictions, I believe that the video downloads are restricted to a specific device or need specific player installed.
    F
  • Azol 9 months ago

    Original Fax label is all about physical product. It surely brings memories when you hold those jewelcases. Nostalgia items command high prices these days, not only in music market. It's up to you if you are willing to pay the extra.
  • Bong 9 months ago

    foojar
    Unfortunately digital downloads rather than physical copies seems to be the future.

    Digital downloads is not the future. They are already declining. Streaming is the future. Young people today are almost exclusively using streaming services. Some are buying the occasional vinyl release for the novelty of it.

    I don't think CD's will make a comeback. That market will die entirely. It's the same with DVD and Blu-Ray. UHD Blu-Ray is the last new physical format that we will see. There will be no new releases on these formats in ten years time.
  • jessfranco2 9 months ago

    cd will never die...i dont know anyone who buys digital or streams music(how can you be serious about music from a fucking mp3!!)
    10 years ago no one wanted vinyls..now they are super trendy gotta have releases/items(i have about 10 vinyl ep's put this year on different labels)..i never thought this would happen 10 years ago but it is now!!!

    back to cd's..i agree that the youth of today wont buy a cd its not going to stop the likes of me buying a new steve roach or alio die cd...theres a lot of us still knocking about bong
  • player 9 months ago

    player edited 9 months ago
    I hardly ever buy any digital music. I did give it a go and have the equipment as mentioned. Found it a souless empty feeling knowing it's just a music file that sits on a device. I do end-up more often flicking or skipping through artist & music, rather then listening, when browsing my Nas for my ripped digital music, also forgetting albums/eps i have, esp when artist under various pseudo's. Yes! digital has a advantage that it can be played on most devices and instant access (this can also depend on the format and the device itself)..though I can simply rip a CD to pratically any format I require, then simply use it the same way as digital/downloads! The big advantage is I still have a physical hard copy with CD, that also comes with artwork on both the disc and on cover/inlay/digi - all ART itself! There's also ownership and price value, selling/exchange option, play it pratically on any CD device in the world, booklets-stickers-extras-artist/label/track info-contacts-messages-awareness (Love the one inside Exquisite Copse 'Inner Light' album ) that come with physical format and simply missing on digital, which itself still cost almost vthe sane as physical...The risk of losing digital to viruses, corrupted file/error, storage failure,..etc; is also there and does happen! The discs and album cover art, physical touch/sight can be great in bringing curiosity about the album, the label. and/or artist that I personally find missing from digital as it's just browsing file names on a device...For me digital music sucks just as Kindle does with books! No feeling of ownership or purchase value - making me feel I'm getting less rather then more when compared to physical buys. Even my music buddies are physical buyers(moslyt CDs) and it's only the odd song here and there if buying digital, but like me,won't really bother buying music unless you can see it, hold it, feel it!
  • Vert1 9 months ago

    Vert1 edited 9 months ago
    If the youth of today are willing to buy up cassettes and vinyl for collection purposes then I don't see why a resurgence in cd sales isn't in store for the future.

    One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that collecting MP3 files is extremely dull (lifeless) compared to collecting CDs. EDIT: NVM, player beat me to it.

    In the 90s any artist could easily get a vinyl or cd printed to release their music on. Today a physical format release is a greater show of confidence in your product. The vinyl plants have not increased despite the uptick in sales of vinyl. The physical resources required to manufacture CDs has not suffered from what I can tell.
  • Lanciferion 9 months ago

    All I buy are cd's. I don't see them ever dying out. Japan will make sure of that!!!!
    Oh, and I agree with Lee, I love me some Roach & Alio Die cd's!!
  • gandolfito63 9 months ago

    [quote=Bong]I don't think CD's will make a comeback. That market will die entirely. It's the same with DVD and Blu-Ray. UHD Blu-Ray is the last new physical format that we will see. There will be no new releases on these formats in ten years time.

    I'm not sure about that....or the opposite. Anyway,if the physical format market dies my interest in new music will die at the same time. At my age I cannot change my brain,my beliefs and my way of thinking,and I don't want to! I have a rule: non physical releases do not exist for me. I don't even try to listen to anything not released physically,regardless of the interest I have on that specific artist. And I will never change that way of thinking.

    By the way,really excellent comment of foojar, considering the thread from both sides of view. I've enjoyed reading it.
  • Lanciferion 9 months ago

    Yes, this has been one of the more interesting threads I have read in a while too.
    Props to Foojar for bringing this up. I only grab files on mp3 that I either don't like
    enough to purchase, or stuff that has been released on cassette or vinyl that I will
    never obtain, since I only buy cd's. And maybe I sometimes grab mp3's of new releases,
    but just until I buy the actual cd version of it. Sometimes I like to preview things before I commit.
  • gandolfito63 9 months ago

    gandolfito63 edited 9 months ago
    Considering the thread just from the "Fax" point of view,I think physical re-releases could be still a happy reality but I guess there is a big problem: business.
    Whoever has the rights for individual albums or the entire catalogue,it seems there is no confidence at all that the re-releases will sell well, and the worst thing is that this is probably a right,realistic thinking. Klaus Schulze could possibly afford to re-release the DSOTM series because he is probably the biggest name in Fax history and even so it is still very easy to find copies at ebay of all 3 Boxes at cheap prices,which means the initial sales weren't precisely sensational and a significant stock is still to be sold to individuals.
  • jessfranco2 9 months ago

    i could re release a few old fax albums on my label and i have talked about it with friends move d and dr atmo but we came to the conclusion its best left where it is..i like releasing new music on my label and txt will never be fax nor do i want it to be ..as much as i love fax :)
  • gandolfito63 9 months ago

    That is why I said in another thread that this is not about making business.Getting a small profit should be enough,the rest needs a more "romantic" vision, releasing just for the sake of really hommaging Fax legacy and love for this kind of music.Totally unrealistic? I fear so but nevertheless and if not the entire catalogue, I still have hopes that some specific and great Fax albums will be released again one of those days.
  • damian_carmine 9 months ago

    jessfranco2
    i could re release a few old fax albums on my label and i have talked about it with friends move d and dr atmo but we came to the conclusion its best left where it is..i like releasing new music on my label and txt will never be fax nor do i want it to be ..as much as i love fax :)


    ^ This :o)

    There is so much good music that is currently Download only or even CDR that could do with a proper CD release. I'd love to see these, along with new music put out on CD rather than re-releasing (sometimes for the umpteenth time) music that is already available on CD, even if collectible and pricey.

    Regarding CDs seeing their demise, amongst my circle of friends, we are buying more now than ever in the past...
  • thirdsystem 9 months ago

    My position with this is important releases are purchased on CD and / or vinyl. However after 40+ years of music purchase in physical format ( including cassettes which I still purchase btw ;) ) storage is definitely becoming an issue.

    I have purchased a fair few downloads on bandcamp and iTunes , many if which I have gone on to purchase on CD also. Especially FAX . When I got into FAX about 10 years ago I embarked on an iTunes FAX frenzy :) . It was great, instantly accessible and the FAX label received many pounds sterling from me believe me. Pete was a great fan of iTunes btw. I have since purchased loads of these albums on CD especially the DTS ones which I love.

    I suppose the crux of the matter here, for me anyway, is that FAX is not freely available to purchase at reasonable prices for new listeners in particular. Also the FAX artists could be receiving some income if the back catalogue was available on BC or iTunes.

    There is also the issue of the pricing of some of the rarer items like IF for instance. That is something I would love to see re-released as there is no way I can justify such a purchase ( and I have spent large amounts getting caught up with the CDs) So it will just have to be utube for that one and some others.

    I just can't see the FAX situation being sorted out in respect of re-releasing CDs or getting them up for download sadly. Hope I am wrong but after what has happened with FAX, or rather not happened , it ain't looking good.
  • thirdsystem 9 months ago

    Also, and perhaps surprisingly, I have purchased a fair few CDs and vinyl albums from HMV in recent times although I am also into Prog and Rock so most have been of that genre. HMV still alive and kicking here.

    A new record store has opened near me also and I have spent a fortune in there, including electronica btw .

    Another point to mention is ,that in purchases from abroad, the exchange rate , adding VAT and postage rates , especially from the states means its downloads or nothing for me now if ordering online.

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