• DotChannel over 8 years ago

    I was thinking lately, would music box discs and cylinders be allowed on Discogs? They aren't necessarily audio, but they are an important part of the history of musical releases and playable music. So would these be allowed?

    For the people that don't know what I'm talking about see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_box .
  • DotChannel over 8 years ago

    That is not what I am talking about. That is a Edison wax cylinder. I already knew those were allowed on here. I'm talking about these:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyyzW4zfyrs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x33lIrbVIAA
  • 1337records over 8 years ago

    Those discs are neat aren't they? they make an appealing case for inclusion but
    DotChannel
    They aren't necessarily audio


    Does Discogs allow piano rolls? These would be in the same bracket I guess.
  • Jayfive over 8 years ago

    Oh sorry, i see what you mean. I thought you might 'music box discs' and 'cylinders' as 2 different things :)

    Not sure about their inclusion, after all they arent an audio recording but a component to make something else make audio :)
  • Dr.SultanAszazin over 8 years ago

    1337records
    Does Discogs allow piano rolls?

    I hope so, but I'm not sure. That technology is very similar to vinyl, but instead of converting the read texture to electro-magnetic pulses in a speaker, they get converted in hammers triggering strings. So it should be, imo.
    Same for the music box cylinders, those trigger the iron things that resonate at a certain frequency, a turntable stylus does something similar, but is designed to not resonate and take up all frequencies.

    1337records
    These would be in the same bracket I guess.

    Must be.
    Piano rolls are recorded performances, (just as a microphone recording, but without the use of electro-magnetism)
    music box cylinders are produced music (just as sequenced music, or tracker modules, which are also present here)
  • PhaedraP over 8 years ago

    I would hope not.
  • Staff 3.1k

    nik over 8 years ago

    Music box cylinders and piano rolls are sequence data, in the same way that a Cubase file or tracker file is.

    I have stated previously that sequence data is not eligible for the database, in whatever form. We should focus on cataloguing complete audio.
  • Dr.SultanAszazin over 8 years ago

    nik
    piano rolls are sequence data,

    Not quite correct, piano rolls are recorded performances...as far as my knowledge reaches, and this submission: Peter Zergiebel - Die Elite Der Pianisten - Der Frühen 20. Jahrhunderts Auf Welte Mignon I. Teil
    piano rolls played in a environment isolated from the mechanical parts and recorded. They are all credited to those who performed the piano roll recording.

    Piano rolls is a recording technique for piano music only, instead of using electrical and electro-magnetical technology (microphones) they use a pure mechanical technology. (next step was grammophone, using microphones to record, but still using pure mechanical system to reproduce the sound (iron stylus & horn)

    music boxes are indeed sequenced works, just like those: BTC 107A - Jeannine (Mixdown II), Milan Speedcore Project - Brooklyn Mob (Rmx), Milan Speedcore Project - Rotterdam Is Hard.
    They will not be playable without the right specific equipment (the right music box, or in the examples, a DOS PC with SB or GUS compatible soundcard and Fasttracker II installed, or another system+software able to emulate this (but I never have been able to produce the same sound through XM-compatible players or other trackers), also FT2 on SB or GUS has a complete different sound (got the 2 settings here for that reason)

    It's very sad that this still isn't allowed (especially the piano roll recordings). (a simple format option and we're gone with it, no need for extra guidelines or options apart from that...)
  • Dr.SultanAszazin over 8 years ago


    Dr.SultanAszazin
    iano rolls are recorded performances...as far as my knowledge reaches, and this submission

    also not 100% correct, both exist (recorded and created).
    But it started as a recording medium (by Welte & Sons)

    (and "next step was grammophone", might not be too accurate, as other developments where also preceding that, and the grammophone is developed parallel, not specific from the piano rolls)

    anyway, I hope they'll get implemented one day...
  • Staff 3.1k

    nik over 8 years ago

    nik
    piano rolls are sequence data


    Dr.SultanAszazin
    Not quite correct, piano rolls are recorded performances


    Performances can be recorded as sequences, sequences are not just step programmed.

    To me, a sequence is any mechanical or electronic form of giving instructions to an instrument or computer to play back a pre-programmed sequence of notes etc. It is giving instructions to an instrument on what notes to play.

    Dr.SultanAszazin
    It's very sad that this still isn't allowed (especially the piano roll recordings). (a simple format option and we're gone with it, no need for extra guidelines or options apart from that...)


    I understand, and maybe it will be allowed / added one day, but my feeling is sequences are a different thing from pre-recorded audio, and there is a firm dividing line between the two.
  • Dr.SultanAszazin over 8 years ago


    nik
    Performances can be recorded as sequences, sequences are not just step programmed.

    you're right in that, as those piano rolls were often edited in the same way one would with a sequencer today.
    nik
    sequences are a different thing from pre-recorded audio

    I can imagine the flood of midi-files and other similar stuff that might disturb the actual core of the db, when allowing sequences in general...
    It might not be such an easy simple task after all, implementing them, I see.

    Thanks for pointing out!
  • RobinsRoostRecords over 8 years ago

    Among a collection of LPs I got were some of those Optigan Discs, 12" in a cover that looked like clear records. Those would be another form that

    nik
    is giving instructions to an instrument on what notes to play.


    They were in demand, and sold on the Optigan site right away. But they were not something to be added to Discogs.
  • dj_julie over 8 years ago

    Hehe, can you imagine trying to grade piano rolls!
  • DotChannel over 8 years ago

    I feel why you don't want them on the database nik, but I still think they should be on here. They are a very important part of the history of music.

    But you own the website, I don't. So that's up to you.
  • PhaedraP over 8 years ago

    Look at it this way: you handled it right this time. No controversy or problems or negative votes. nik disagreed with you but you did have support from other users.

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