• swagski over 7 years ago

    When adding SACEM to BAOI, does one need to add the other 3 societies within its captive logo box?
    ie; Doesn't the addition of SACEM simply capture/declare these by default?
    SACEM Logo example http://www.discogs.com/image/R-509228-1200383198.jpeg
  • loukash over 7 years ago

  • swagski over 7 years ago

    swagski edited over 7 years ago
    Aah, that's a coincidence!
    Agree on "the string matters"
    ("SACEM SACD SDRM SGDL") Especially as this is also by alpha after the initial SACEM.
    or, preferably, as 'individual'
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/234334#2875986

    However, without diving into the veritable history of the 'making of SACEM' - I assume (always a dangerous practise/practice) that SACEM is the umbrella for those four 'bodies'?
    After all, if I insert MGM Records for example, am I expected to list all their sub-labels 'within the same stroke'? IMHO - No, it's 'taken as read'.
    Does/did SACEM ever exist as an entity without those bodies? Is it not a 'consortium' of them?
    Surely, the bounding box says it all?
    So that we may prophet... Calling all oracles, seers & sages

    edit-added: String by alpha comment
  • ccj over 7 years ago

    No the string does NOT matter actually.
    Please see here:
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/234334#2881789

    See the point I made about LAYOUT, hence "SACEM SACD SDRM SGDL" being logical. And yes, some releases have only SACEM, so entering them ALL is definitely the best thing to do for full data accuracy please.
  • swagski over 7 years ago

    Thanks.
    ccj
    "SACEM SACD SDRM SGDL" being logical.

    Agree, if one is going to enter a string in BAOI, then (ideally) this should be the way to do it- by alpha after prime.
    Can you point me to a solo SACEM label pic?
    If SACEM exists solo, it would seem even more logical to 'string' a 'boxed' SACEM (that has the other entities) on a release.
    Thus, a solo SACEM and, say, a solo SACD, would indicate they are on a release as separate entities...?
  • ccj over 7 years ago

    ccj edited over 7 years ago
    http://www.discogs.com/release/1323300 (though, it needs moving to newer BAOI section)
    ...the rest you can search for yourelf ;-)

    - "alpha after prime" => actually because: prime, then left-to-right.
    (as per order we read in the latin languages, and as per most press organisations set this way on their "in house style guidelines" to list images and suchlike from left to right in their explanatory smallprint).

    - "If SACEM exists solo, it would seem even more logical to 'string' a 'boxed' SACEM (that has the other entities) on a release.
    Thus, a solo SACEM and, say, a solo SACD, would indicate they are on a release as separate entities...?"

    The box = string, eg. "SACEM SACD SDRM SGDL". I don't think they ever appear separated when on a single release, but either way, separating them is not necessary, for two reasons: (1) a search returns the same search result/count, & (2) that's a reason we use images on Discogs, so if someone is desperate to see how such info is laid-out on a release they can simply see them.

    (this is another reason why "as on release" in databases does not apply in certain circumstances, as it can cause data manipulation issues that screw up data searching.
    Classic example, is when users add the data to the Notes EXACTLY as it appears on the release rather than being commonsensical and writing it out in a single line, eg. funky artwork like this should be ignored
    Written at - - . . .
    THE Lime House . . .
    .... - London
    - . England


    and done correctly like this
    Written at The Lime House, London, England.

    Search will ignore separating characters anyway, and the funky layout is wrong database usage, as in databases —like the internet itself— data should be kept SEPARATE from how the data appears. Hence why we have CSS, HTML, XML, et al.)
  • swagski over 7 years ago

    ccj
    - "If SACEM exists solo, it would seem even more logical to 'string' a 'boxed' SACEM (that has the other entities) on a release.
    Thus, a solo SACEM and, say, a solo SACD, would indicate they are on a release as separate entities...?"

    I applied that as 'belt-n-braces'. Not every submission will have pictorial input. Especially labels.
    Therefore, the very 'layout' in the BAOI will provide a knowledge of the 'form' taken in the display.
    NOTE: The example you gave Michele Torr* - Discomotion
    has no visual evidence to back the claim that it is purely SACEM on the release...
    ccj
    I don't think they ever appear separated when on a single release,

    So, why can SACEM appear solo, but SACD will not? Or SDRM? Or SGDL?
    As I asked, are the other 3 only present when accompanied by SACEM?
    (With SACEM as a 'once extant body', sans the other 3)

    The rest of your post I was already in agreement with ;)

  • wave_X over 7 years ago

    wave_X edited over 7 years ago
    swagski
    When adding SACEM to BAOI, does one need to add the other 3 societies within its captive logo box?

    IMO it matters, they don't have necessarily always: SACEM SACD SDRM SGDL

    eg: http://www.discogs.com/image/R-1377429-1214319203.jpeg
  • ccj over 7 years ago

    ccj edited over 7 years ago
    Look, we're going around in circles here.

    If it has just ONE, then put just ONE.
    If it has more than one, then put more than one in a line.

    So for ^that^ image, just add them in the same order already mentioned, just changing the last one to SCAM: "SACEM SACD SDRM SCAM".

    As for only one appearing or all appearing, I don't know, so...
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=SACEM => Google Translate URL's en français ;-)

    Fin.
  • ccj over 7 years ago

    5 mins found...

    SACEM = Société des Auteurs Compositeurs et Editeurs de Musique
    SDRM = Société pour l'administration du Droit de Reproduction Mécanique
    SACD = Société des Auteurs et Compositeurs Dramatiques
    SGDL = Société des Gens de Lettres

    En anglais:
    SACEM = Society of Authors Composers and Publishers of Music
    MRSA = Society for the administration of mechanical rights
    SACD = Society of Dramatic Authors and Composers
    SGDL = Society of Men of Letters

    ie. different bodies for different functions of the same organisation: SACEM.

    - Authors/Composers/Publishers => music
    - Mechanical Rights => music
    - Dramatic Authors/Composers = playwrights (eg. Shakespeare, Ayckbourn, Pinter, Bergerac, Sartre)
    - Men of Letters = literary writers, journalists, "writing professionals" (eg. Yeats, Milton, King, Camus, Proust).

    - SCAM => something else ?!

    Hence the umbrella logo appears (and from the looks of it SGDL is more recently replaced with SCAM).
    So just use all "top > left to right" order, as mentioned.
  • ccj over 7 years ago

    ccj edited over 7 years ago
    SCAM = Société Civile des Auteurs Multimedia

    + found this one too:
    ADAGP = Société des Auteurs dans les Arts Graphiques et Plastiques

    En anglais:
    SCAM = Civil Society of Multimedia Authors
    ADAGP = Society of Authors in the Graphic and Plastic Arts

    Multimedia Authors => CD producers, production companies, camera editors
    Authors in the Graphic and Plastic Arts: designers, visual artists, et al

    links:
    http://www.sacem.fr/cms/site/en/home/users/streaming/video-on-demand-streaming
    http://www.discogs.com/help/forums/topic/183451

    Google is't thyne freund :-)
  • SeRKeT over 7 years ago

    i would add all listed there as the difference in another version maybe just down to the layout on the labels and be missing the other three if SACEM is truly the umbrella for all of them
  • swagski over 7 years ago

    Thanks ccj for the work.
    You have answered my question.
    It is now clear that there are variations within the bounding box - thus the bounding box can be ignored as an 'entity'.
    ALL societies therein MUST be entered.
    The reason I raised the question was the 'selectivity' of societies by the subber on this post, for example: Various - Parisian United Artist

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