• mjb over 12 years ago

    mjb edited over 5 years ago
    Seen on a Japanese release:

    9 9 • 1 2 • 1   Ⓨ
    ( 9 9 • 1 2 • 1 )   Ⓧ
    再 0 0 . 5 . 3 1 ま で (I believe this translates to "again until 00.5.31")

    What do the three dates mean? What's the circle-X and circle-Y for? What's that last thing about?

    I see these all the time. Should I just go with the earliest date as the release date?
  • donnacha over 12 years ago

    By general rule of thumb, I go for the latest date - if a record has 2002 and 2004 listed somewhere, it clearly wasn't released in 2002 unless they could tell the future!
  • Gecks over 12 years ago

    i imagine the circled stuff is the equivalent of (P) & (C). but yeah, as donnacha :)
  • mjb over 12 years ago

    There's P and C dates as well. They say 1984 :)

    As for the future, that's the thing.. it says "until" which makes me wonder if it's some kind of expiration date, like instructions to the retailer to keep it at a certain price or something for 18 months? Or maybe that's how long it's in print? Total speculation... no idea.
  • pbl3 over 12 years ago

    ^thats a good guess because in Japan, Japanese releases are subject to weird copyright laws that make new CDs (and maybe DVDs too) price-fixed at a pretty expensive price for around 2 years after they're released.

    It's only for Japanese releases in Japan, if they export, it doesn't apply, and neither does it apply to American or European imports - so imports are actually cheaper than domestic releases in Japan for new releases.
  • uzumaki over 12 years ago

    Yes, the first date is the release date; the second one is when the (usually quoted) price is valid until. Imported CDs are cheaper if you can get them which is why I reckon Japanese releases often have bonus tracks only available in Japan.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    jasmithers edited over 12 years ago
    ..
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    vreon edited over 5 years ago
    mjb -- as you said, まで or made is "until" in Japanese. The Kanji 再 can have a few different meanings, but I did a search on Japanese pages and got a partial answer for you here (the last box on the page):

    In this case, 再 is short for 再発売 or "resale." So, as uzumaki said, resellers have to sell the CD at the price marked on the CD until that まで date. After that date, it's up to the reseller to set what price they want.

    So, in your example above the release date is December 1, 1999. I'm not sure about the (X) and (Y), but on one example I have the (X) date was about a month earlier than the (Y) date, and I verified independently that the (Y) date was the correct release date.
  • mjb over 12 years ago

    Interesting. Thanks!!
  • fritzb over 12 years ago

    Wow, a really informative and useful thread!

    I just double-checked the date on the only Japanese release I have submitted. I got the correct date. I guess I could read Japanese and didn't know it. ;-)
  • Vixion over 12 years ago

    yy/mm/dd

  • mjb over 12 years ago

    vreon edited over 5 years ago
    Here are a few more dates I'm seeing on three older Japanese CDs. Why are there letters in place of the years? What do they mean?

    X~88・2・24 O・2・25

    R・8・25

    H・9・5 
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    A lot on my Japanese CDs have those letters on them; by verifying release dates on the Web independently, I've seen a pattern and come to the conclusion that the letters are codes for years. It seems that some labels used them in the '80s and up through 1990 -- I haven't seen any later than that.

    I believe the code is:

    N -- 1984
    H -- 1986
    O -- 1987
    R -- 1988
    E -- 1989
    C -- 1990

    I haven't seen any for 1985, so I don't know what letter that is yet.

    So your three examples above would be:

    25 February 1987
    25 August 1988
    5 September 1986

    As for the "X," it's usually, as in your example above, one year after the release date, so maybe it indicates the end of the mandatory pricing period we talked about above. Just a guess...
  • Vixion over 12 years ago

    Just remind... Japanese dates are yyyy/mm/dd

    The letter in front doesn't add information 'cause everybody understands when the last 2 digest are 95 (i.e.) the release year is 1995 and not 1895 or 2095.
  • mjb over 12 years ago

    Thanks jasmithers! This is immensely valuable.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    1985 is "I".
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    lazlo_nibble -- thanks for adding that piece to the puzzle! So, from '84 to '90, we get:

    N I H O R E C

    Maybe they're trying to spell out "Nihon Record..." ("Nihon" being "Japan" in Japanese, and you can't repeat the "N," right?) Could it be "Nihon Record Industry Association" or something like that? Just a guess...

    Vixion -- thanks, I believe everyone understands the date order. The point is that where there should be 2 or 4 digits for the year, there's only a capital letter sometimes. For example, I have 7 CDs each with the "E" and "C" on them; by doing searches on Google with the catalog #s, I found all the "E" CDs just happened to be released in 1989, whereas all the "C" CDs just happened to be 1990. It can't be a coincidence, right?

    lazlo_nibble -- can you add to this discussion? Have you heard of this code before?
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    jasmithers -- I'm not sure there's even a controversy at the moment. Everything you listed is consistent with my collection.

    Vixion -- When you said The letter in front doesn't add information I assume you mean the X~ in X~88.02.24, correct?
  • mjb over 12 years ago

    I still would like to know what the "X" and "Y" mean.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    vreon edited over 5 years ago
    The plot thickens!

    O.K. -- I don't know what the circle-X and circle-Y mean, but regarding your example above as such:

    X~88・2・24 O・2・25

    you may notice that the date after the "X~" is a year after the release date (O・2・25 = 87.2.25 by our code above, right?), minus one day. I have a few examples like that as well, and the "X~" date is always one year after the release date. In Japanese, as in English, the "~" is used to indicate "until," and in Japanese made includes the date mentioned before it, thus X~88・2・24 means "from the release date of 87.02.25, up to and including 88.02.24," or exactly one year.

    I checked on the Japan Recording Industry Association Web site here and guess what is in effect for a year?!?

    You may not be aware, but in Japan there are CD rental shops -- very cool! Well, the RIA site says that there is a "right" (of the makers, I assume) to forbid the rental of CDs (and other recorded media) for one year after the release date. Here's an interesting thing: for Japanese pressings, the wording says the companies have the right to allow it or not within the first year. For imported CDs, though, it is simply forbidden for the first year.

    I believe that the X~88・2・24 O・2・25 is just an example of this, i.e. the companies are asserting their right to forbid rentals for the whole first year after release. Of course, all Japanese CDs I checked have the standard boilerplate language "It is forbidden to rent out this CD without the consent of the rights holder."

    Lastly, I found I have a few Japanese CDs on which the end ("limit") of the "rental-lockout" period is specified in writing. For those few examples, the limit always comes at the end of the month two months after the release date, e.g. a release date of 88.4.20 could not be rented up to 88.6.30. Also, these CDs have special language under the limit: "However, even after the above-stated limit has passed, it is forbidden to rent out this CD without the consent of the rights holder."

    Sorry about the long-winded post. I'll keep looking for the circle-X and circle-Y thing.
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    vreon edited over 5 years ago
    Sorry -- I meant to say:

    X~88・2・24 O・2・25 means "forbidden from the release date of 87.02.25, up to and including the date 88.02.24"

    In other words, the X~ does seem to have a meaning after all.
  • mjb over 12 years ago

    OK, so on releases with only one date present, and a letter code in place of the year, I should assume that it represents the release date?
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    I would -- nearly every time I've seen that case, I've been able to find listings on the Web that confirm that single date as the release date. If only it were that simple every time!
  • Anonymous over 12 years ago

    I think it's more likely that the date pairs reflect the fixed-price interval under the Saihan Seido system as mentioned earlier. I've noticed these dates getting closer together over the years.

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