New Order – Substance

Some thoughtful and relevant comments on the packaging and sound quality, to be sure.

With that, and since no one has posted any comments on the Irvine Meadows concert experience itself, allow me.

Wow. I was at the Greek Theatre show 6 days later, and it's very interesting to try and re-live his through more "mature" ears. This is one of the worst live performances, even for NO, I've ever heard and can fully understand why this was never released.

Knowing full well that NO were never a "tight" live band and were known for their idiosyncratic shows, but this is just an especially bad car crash of sloppy playing, odd behavior, and embarrassing mis-cues. They truly did not give a !@#$ about the audience that night. Barney's "playing with my big fat cock" line in Perfect Kiss, admirably demonstrates that.

Makes me wonder why they choose THIS night to commit to posterity. And why in the world now sully a modern classic like Substance (which is arguably one of the most thorough and listenable band compilations of all time); with this half assed performance.

How punk rock of them.

I agree with those highlighting the flimsy packaging. I picked up a sealed copy instore on release day and it was in perfect condition but could see straight away I needed to be careful with it. I ordered a backup copy online which arrived squashed in the mail. I sent the squashed copy back. My advice is go to a record shop and actually see what you're buying. I half wish they'd gone the full 80s retro and reissued it in a CD fatbox for good measure, then the packaging complaints would have been moot.

Overall though and given the precarious state of New Order reissues (particularly pre-2011) this is a very welcome expansion of an iconic Factory compilation which has been ignored for a very long time. It is ironic Substance was left alone for so long as it is widely considered to be the gateway album for many fans, particularly in the States. I don't think it is an understatement to say this was probably the most anticipated reissue of the entire back catalogue. It was excluded from The Factory Years campaign in 2008-9, which was probably a good thing given how those reissues turned out.

Yes, the (re)mastering is modern. A touch loud in places? Perhaps, but I can definitely hear more detail versus the 1987 master which sounds "of its time" and a bit flat. The new mastering is punchier but nowhere near as brick walled as the 2005 Singles compilation. Basically, I haven't felt it necessary to return to my original FACD200 rip since receiving this edition. I do think some here are overegging the audio criticisms, but each to their own.

The musical content is obviously excellent; minor corrections to the original compilation (Mesh and the full Perfect Kiss), most of the surrounding dubs/instrumentals and an unreleased (officially, anyway) gig. Some would argue - including me - that True Dub on CD is worth the entry fee alone. There was another CD version of True Dub put out a few years ago on a Blank & Jones so80s compilation but that wasn't so well known.

Certainly, it would have been nice to see Substance receive the full, luxury box set treatment but I think in time this will prove to be a shrewd move by the band and label. Over the last 4 years, fans have already shelled out for approx. 4 expensive box-sets (Movement, PC&L, Education Entertainment Recreation and Low-Life). Offering an expanded Substance - which recycles a lot of content from previous box sets and surrounding singles - for a similar price could have been construed as a cash grab. That in turn could risk buyer fatigue and possibly jeopardise future box sets.

Given the superb treatment the previous albums got as "Definitive Editions", I really really want to see Technique and if a budget packaged Substance helps that happen, then so be it.

5 stars.

Packaging fail. Outer sleeve far too flimsy, inner CD housing too fiddly. Very poor. Mine arrived crushed in the post. I can see good ones getting damaged with everyday use. If you have a good one look after it. I can see near mint ones being rare in years to come.

Anyone know where ‘Confusion Dub ‘87’ from the 2023 version of Substance originates?

old mixes repackaged yet again, I'm gonna say no thx

The only good thing about it is it's price. The sound is bad (brickwalled like hell), the live cd is as good as a cassette (sic!). But we have cd 3, which was only available on cassette back in those days. Could have been the greatest re-release of the 1980's. I guess we will have to wait for the 50th anniversary release which might be a non-brickwalled version ...

Was really hoping to get a release that did not use lossy source files. The original Substance release is at best a bit rate of 320. I ripped this disc to flac and tested the files on Fakin the Funk. On this remastered version Disc 1 tracks 3, 6, 7 and 10 are a bit rate of 128. At least the remaining files on Disc 1 are non lossy sources. On Disc 2 tracks 9 & 10 are a bit rate of 128 and track 12 is a bit rate of 320. On Disc 3 track 6 is a bit rate of 320. Of course as others have stated Disc 4 is taken from a cassette tape but nice to have. Overall this release is a bit of a disappointment. Just looking for a complete release of lossless music.

First 12 songs of the "Digital Master" has DR8 and ReplayGain of -8.35dB, not too bad but DR9 or DR10 and ReplayGain -7dB would have been more ideal. Looking at the Waveform Seekbar does confirm some brickwalling.

I avoided the Wire 154 Special Edition because it is DR6. On the other hand, I have CDs from the 80s with DR13 that sound terrible as well. I always avoid anything with DR7 or less. New albums today are typically DR6 or DR7 with ReplayGain value of -10dB.

Anyways, I am looking forward to my copy to arrive. Preorder on Amzn CA was a whopping $69.99 but today it fell to $44.08 and I ordered it right away. New Order is my favourite band but I only have the (The Best Of) CD, and I only heard songs from Substance individually, never as one whole package. I love the third disc has the real "Mesh". That already makes this a must-have for me. Let's face it, as great as New Order were, they were mostly a singles band, just like The Smiths. These A-sides and B-sides are all essential.

Is it impossible to get a good, clean master out of New Order? Well at least they tried to patch up the tape glitches in True Faith but in addition to the other complaints, the EQ sounds terrible in so many spots. Most irritating is State of the Nation & Bizarre Love Triangle sound muffled to me. Save your money.

Another missed opportunity to see a non-brickwalled CD reissue? Sure.
Still, i am a bit on the fence about the sound quality of this edition.
Take, for instance, The Perfect Kiss: there's something in this track that seem to reveal something that has been lying hidden for four decades...