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King CrimsonDiscipline

Label:

Discipline Global Mobile – KCSP8, Panegyric – KCSP8

Series:

King Crimson 40th Anniversary Series

Format:

CD, Album, Reissue
DVD, DVD-Audio, DVD-Video, Multichannel, NTSC, Stereo, Mono
All Media, Remastered, Digipak

Country:

UK & Europe

Released:

Genre:

Rock

Style:

Art Rock

Tracklist

2011 Stereo Mix
CD-1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
4:44
CD-2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
5:09
CD-3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
3:48
CD-4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
4:34
CD-5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
6:26
CD-6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
8:22
CD-7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
5:11
Bonus Tracks
CD-8A Selection Of Adrian's Vocal Loops
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
0:19
CD-9A Selection Of Adrian's Vocal Loops
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
0:34
CD-10The Sheltering Sky (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
8:27
CD-11Thela Hun Ginjeet (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
6:31
Audio Content
Original Album - MLP Lossless 5.1 Surround
DVD-1.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-1.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
Original Album - DTS 5.1 Digital Surround
DVD-2.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-2.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
2011 Stereo Mix - MLP Lossless Stereo (24/96)
DVD-3.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-3.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
2011 Stereo Mix - PCM Stereo 2.0 (24/48)
DVD-4.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-4.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
30th Anniversary Remaster - MLP Lossless Stereo (24/96)
DVD-5.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-5.8Matte Kudasai (Alternate Version)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
30th Anniversary Remaster - PCM Stereo 2.0 (24/48)
DVD-6.1Elephant Talk
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.2Frame By Frame
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.3Matte Kudasai
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.4Indiscipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.5Thela Hun Ginjeet
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.6The Sheltering Sky
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.7Discipline
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
DVD-6.8Matte Kudasai (Alternate Version)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Producer [Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Additional Tracks - MLP Lossless Stereo (24/96)
DVD-7.1A Selection Of Adrian's Vocal Loops
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-7.2The Sheltering Sky (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-7.3Thela Hun Ginjeet (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
The Terrifying Tale Of Thela Hun Ginjeet
Compiled By [Assembled By]Alex Mundy*, David Singleton
DVD-7.4iVenal Leader (Later Heartless & Raging) Promotes (Warner Bros Office, Nyc, 1981)]
FeaturingRobert Fripp
DVD-7.4iiShaking Artist (Basic St. Studios May 1981, As Featured On The Album "Discipline")
FeaturingAdrian Belew
DVD-7.4iiiThela Hun Ginjeet (Philadelphia, July 30th 1982)
DVD-7.5Elephant Talk (12" Dance Mix)
Additional Tracks - PCM Stereo 2.0 (24/48)
DVD-8.1A Selection Of Adrian's Vocal Loops
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-8.2The Sheltering Sky (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
DVD-8.3Thela Hun Ginjeet (Alternate Mix)
Mastered ByRobert Fripp, Simon Heyworth
Mastered By [Assisted By]Andy Miles (2)
Mixed By [Alternate Mix]Steven Wilson
Mixed By, Producer [Produced From The Original Multi-track Tapes By]Robert Fripp, Steven Wilson
The Terryifying Tale Of Thela Hun Ginjeet
Compiled By [Assembled By]Alex Mundy*, David Singleton
DVD-8.4iVenal Leader (Later Heartless & Raging) Promotes (Warner Bros Office, Nyc, 1981)]
FeaturingRobert Fripp
DVD-8.4iiShaking Artist (Basic St. Studios May 1981, As Featured On The Album "Discipline")
FeaturingAdrian Belew
DVD-8.4iiiThela Hun Ginjeet (Philadelphia, July 30th 1982)
DVD-8.5Elephant Talk (12" Dance Mix)
Album Rough Mixes - PCM Stereo 2.0 (24/48)
DVD-9.1Discipline
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.2Thela Hun Ginjeet
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.3Matte Kudasai
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.4Elephant Talk
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.5The Sheltering Sky
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.6Frame By Frame
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
DVD-9.7Indiscipline
Producer [Music Produced By]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
Technician [Original Tapes Prepared By]Rhett Davies
Technician [Transfers And Restoration By]Alex R. Mundy
Video Content
Selections From The Old Grey Whistle Test
DVD-10.1Elephant Talk (Recorded Live At The Venue, October 1981)
DVD-10.2Frame By Frame (Recorded At The BBC, March 15th, 1982)
Featuring [Introduced By]Annie Nightingale
DVD-10.3Indiscipline (Recorded At The BBC, March 15th, 1982)
Featuring [Introduced By]Annie Nightingale
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Companies, etc.

  • Distributed ByPanegyric
  • Phonographic Copyright ℗Robert Fripp
  • Copyright ©Robert Fripp
  • Mastered AtSuper Audio Mastering
  • Published ByUMG Music Publishing Ltd.
  • Glass Mastered AtPromese – B372890
  • Glass Mastered AtPromese – B372891
  • Pressed ByPromese

Credits

  • Artwork [Package Art], DesignHugh O'Donnell
  • Authoring [DVD Authoring & Assembled By]Neil Wilkes
  • Chapman Stick, Bass Guitar, Vocals [Support Vocal]Tony Levin
  • Compiled By, CoordinatorDeclan Colgan
  • Compiled By, Coordinator [With Input & Suggestions From]Alex R. Mundy, Sid Smith, Steven Wilson
  • Design [DVD Design], LayoutClaire Bidwell
  • Design [Discipline Knotwork]Steve Ball
  • Design [Graphica]Peter Saville (2)
  • Drums [Batterie]Bill Bruford
  • Engineer [Assistant]Nigel Mills
  • Guitar, Electronics [Devices]Robert Fripp
  • Guitar, Lead Vocals [Lead Vocal]Adrian Belew
  • Liner Notes [From Online Diary]Robert Fripp
  • Liner Notes [June 2011]Sid Smith
  • Management [Strategic Management]Paddy Spinks
  • Music ByKing Crimson
  • Other [DGM Tape Archive]Alex R. Mundy
  • Other [Elephantosity]Adrian Belew
  • Other [Vinyl Artefacts And Rarities]John Kimber
  • Photography By [King Crimson In New York, 1981]Ebet Roberts
  • Photography By [On Stage Utrecht, Holland, October 12, 1981]Wilbert Mul
  • Photography By [Road Photos]Tony Levin
  • Producer [Original Album, 30th Anniversary Remaster, Album Rough Mixes]King Crimson, Rhett Davies
  • Supervised By [Video Transfers And Restoration]Patrick Cleasby
  • Technician [DVD QC Testing]Bob Romano, Bob Squires, Chris Gerhard, Jon Urban, Tim McDonnell
  • Technician [Film Restoration]Chris Packman
  • Technician [Gear]Graham Davies (2)

Notes

CD content:
1. 2011 Stereo Mix remixed from the original multitrack master tapes
2. Bonus tracks

DVD content:
1. Original album remixed in MLP Lossless 5.1 Surround* and DTS 5.1 Digital Surround**
2. Original album mix (30th anniversary edition) and 2011 stereo album mix in MLP Lossless Stereo (24/96)* and PCM Stereo 2.0*** (24/48). "Album Rough Mixes" in Stereo (16/48)***
3. Video Content in Mono

*only playable with DVD-Audio players, or players that are DVD-Audio compatible
**playable in all DVD players/DVD-ROM drives etc. with a compatible speaker setup
***playable in all DVD players/DVD-ROM drives etc.

This release comes in a 2×digipack format with transparent trays in a slipcase. Also has a 16 page booklet containing new sleeve notes by Robert Fripp and King Crimson biographer Sid Smith along with rare photos and archive material.

The CD bonus tracks listing is incorrectly given on the release as:
CD-8 A Selection Of Adrian's Vocal Loops
CD-9 The Sheltering Sky (Alternate Mix)
CD-10 Thela Hun Ginjeet (Alternate Mix)

Mastered at Super Audio Mastering, Devon

"Discipline is never an end in itself, only a means to an end"

All songs published by UMG Music Publishing Ltd.

℗ & © 2011 Robert Fripp
This compilation ℗ & © 2011 Robert Fripp

Released via Inner Knot (USA/Canada), WDH (Japan), Panegyric (rest of World)

Barcode and Other Identifiers

  • Barcode (Text): 6 33367 40082 6
  • Barcode (Scanned): 633367400826
  • Label Code: LC 00614
  • Matrix / Runout (CD, Variant 1): B372890 @1 KCSP8
  • Mastering SID Code (CD, Variant 1): IFPI LW03
  • Mould SID Code (CD, Variant 1): IFPI AAHP9
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 0, Variant 1): B372891-0 @1 KCSP8
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 1, Variant 1): B372891-1 @1 KCSP8 @
  • Mastering SID Code (DVD, Variant 1): IFPI LW03
  • Mould SID Code (DVD, Variant 1): IFPI AAH20
  • Matrix / Runout (CD, Variant 2): B372890 @1 KCSP8
  • Mastering SID Code (CD, Variant 2): IFPI LW03
  • Mould SID Code (CD, Variant 2): IFPI AAHP5
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 0, Variant 2): B372891-0 @1 KCSP8
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 1, Variant 2): B372891-1 @1 KCSP8 @
  • Mastering SID Code (DVD, Variant 2): IFPI LW03
  • Mould SID Code (DVD, Variant 2): IFPI AAHH1
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 0, Variant 3): B372891-0 @1 KCSP8
  • Matrix / Runout (DVD Layer 1, Variant 3): B372891-1 @1 KCSP8 @
  • Mastering SID Code (DVD, Variant 3): IFPI LW03
  • Mould SID Code (DVD, Variant 3): IFPI AAHY1

Other Versions (5 of 126)

View All
Title (Format)LabelCat#CountryYear
Recently Edited
Discipline (LP, Album)EG, PolydorEGLP 49, 2302 112UK1981
Recently Edited
Discipline (LP, Album, Stereo, Winchester Pressing)Warner Bros. Records, EGBSK 3629US1981
Discipline (LP, Album, Quality Records Pressing, Embossed Sleeve)Warner Bros. Records, EG, Warner Bros. Records, EGXBS 3629, XBS-3629Canada1981
Discipline (LP, Album)EG, Polydor2302 112Germany1981
Recently Edited
Discipline (LP, Album)EG2302 112France1981

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Reviews

  • zevulon's avatar
    zevulon
    Anyone - asking and know that the answers will probably be divided (?) - and I know that many will answer "great, perfect, best sound ever", and that might very well be so, but, the mastering/remastering?? How is it? Seeing that Steven Wilson is involved gets me worried. I'm not too impressed with any of his remasters when it comes to redelivering original material. He also does reinterpretations/whole new arrangements - and that is always a separate discussion in itself.
    Your thoughts?

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