Deleted post by Haze from the moderator forum!

This post was deleted twice in 6 minutes from the moderator forum. I think you need to see it!

Haze
Maybe this thread will also be considered as trolling and might be my last post here, who knows these days.

Nik, your actions in the last time are kinda scary and I'm slowly loosing my respect towards your person.

You're making it too easy when you think deleting and locking topics and kicking mods is the way to go. This has a bad taste.

So he got kicked for a few dubious votes and a thread that was considered to be trolling? As I said in the first thread it was a complete over-reaction from your side. Many mods do fucked up votes, even with 100% now - but it seems to be no problem as long as they don't post something in the way SC725 did.
You would have to kick a lot of mods then, because they still post in those topics that he has gathered in one new thread, like e.g. mod stats or submission limits. Why are bumping people these threads and new mods are signing in? Because they're troublemakers? No, they do because they care about Discogs, the quality in here which they helped to build and there fear that this will be destroyed.

Are you thinking about replying to that post? Is the steady growing amount of unmoderated things really not a problem in your or teos eyes?

Look at this post and your reply - now we have nearly 15000 edits, 8 months old. You still think just "isn't ideal"?

nik
assaiki
what's the point in opening 2 or 3 topic with basically the same subject/theme?

I agree, and when I think such posts are designed more to upset people than to move forward with any particular topic, I consider that trolling.

He has opened one thread with basically all points that lead to frustration of so many mods. Seeing how many topics this forum has it wasn't a bad thing imo.

nik
I was trying to reply to his post yesterday, but I found it totally frustrating to reply on many topics that had been brought up and answered before. No solutions were offered by him, only stirring the same stuff.

He wanted to have these things discussed, many topics have been started without a solution, they are still there. Or solutions like some kind of sublimits haven't been heard in the past but are still or become even more important with the growing queue.

nik
It's a community built database. The website is built by one person.

Now that's one of most disrespectful things I have ever read towards mods and contributors. So what would that website be without the database? Get a grip.

It's sad to see that you seem not to have a minimum knowledge of things like psychology (how long have fought to get mod stats back - though they still lack improvement and the import of the old stats) and how to lead employers (what we are in a kind of way).

Please admit just once that you made an error and give him his mod access back.

And by re-posting something from the moderator forum I'm ready to be banned from the editor and moderator forum! This re-post was my idea, not Haze's

dj_purity_control
I wonder if he'll have the balls to ban two longtime mods -- I'm sorry, not just mods, eds -- such as Haze and yourself.

Not the balls to remove us but he will try to remove all of our posts.

I thought of a new forum (to get it on the first page again) but I can't start it myself as I've already started 5 forums.

"The forum to post deleted post in" or something like that! Can somebody else start it?

Another deleted post!

I copied this information from another source than the moderator forum as I didn't even see it!

-------------------------------------------------------
Deleted: http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/153807

Please stop deleting posts #3

MR_E wrote:

Childish. Unnecessary. etc.

The previous 2 versions of this post were deleted.

posted 9 minutes ago. ( permalink | ignore user | report )
MR_E edited this message 2 minutes ago.

Moderator X wrote:

exactly.

posted 7 minutes ago. ( permalink | ignore user | report )

Moderator Y wrote:

yeah - and you'll soon need the fingers of your second hand to count them, and we're only in the first week of 2008.

posted 6 minutes ago. ( permalink | ignore user | report )

Moderator z wrote:

First one I've seen! I need to stop modding if I want to keep up-to-date on deleted threads. :-P

Moderator ? is for moderators not in here already!

Looks like nik just recruited a few new members for this forum.

MR_E
Looks like nik just recruited a few new members for this forum.

Yeah!

I told dj_purity that I wasn't interested to join before the last bridge was burnt when he started this forum but I'm ready now! It might be my last night as an editor?

Another deleted post, the one that triggered everything:

The Problems With Discogs - PLEASE DISCUSS

SC725 wrote:

Right, I think this deserves a thread all on it's own, just as a follow up from this thread. I felt that one was a tad too personal, and we weren't really discussing any issues other than saying "nik & teo sux0rrrrrrrr". So here is where I feel the problems with Discogs lie. I'm not an authority on any subject, I know some of these have been discussed in great depth before and chances are I have missed them, but (I'm saying this as much for myself more than anyone else)lets try and keep this free from personal attacks. So my issues:

#1 - Discogs v3.0

Discogs v3.0 has been nothing short of shambles since it's inception. There really is no way of arguing any other way IMO. Look at the number of unmoderated submissions. Look at the pissing matches we have in the mods forum day after day discussing the same old crap continuously. The introduction of it was poor, there was no discussion around it (putting up a thread announcing all the changes is NOT a discussion IMO), and the implementation of it has been a disaster.

Discuss...

#2 - Submission Limits

- The cap on new submissions, this really is ridiculous and making the queue impossible to get on top of. It's also extremely disheartening to see an ever-growing number. It's more a mental thing, but it feels like we're actually of no use as there's no visual recognition of any work we do. It's like "great, I just spent the last 2 hours hammering the queue and modded 50 subs, but in that time another 100 have come onboard". Discuss...

#3 - SCR

The SCR's. I understand this in principle, but again this is so poorly executed. Another mental thing, and again it is SO disheartening to get one of these Inbox when you try to do something beneficial for someone else. The concept needs to be re-thought as it just causes more harm than good. Discuss...

#4 - DJ Mix / Maxi-Single

Both of these topics were again a farce. Listing the mixer of an album as the main artist, etc etc blah blah. I can't be bothered to go into all that again. But it seems so foolish. Same goes for the use of "Maxi-Single". Is it really required to have idiot-proof notes on everything? Discuss...

#5 - New Mods

The new wave of mods. I have to say I think the new batch of mods are poor - mainly in terms of attitude. We have guys coming on with 50-odd subs to their name playing Devil's Advocate on every single issue that comes up, acting as though they are an authority on the subject. It's very sad to see, and again the old-guard just get put off when they see a newbie who's been in the game for 5 minutes trying to tell us what to do.

Also, it baffles me as to why so many of the old-guard leaving doesn't cause more of a scuffle. It's almost as if it's "well thanks for your unpaid hard work, but please fuck off now". Surely we must count for something?

Discuss...

#6 - Communication?!

The communication issue with nik and teo. Again, none of this is meant as a personal attack so please don't take it in that way. But clearly something is wrong between the way you guys communicate with us. nik - I have said time and
time again that I respect the way you never seem to lose your rag, and it's quite commendable. But I feel that your are poor as Discogs Community Manager. There really is no sense of community here at all these days. When new proposals are rolled out, it seems fairly evident that something goes on behind the scenes between you and teo that the rest of us are not privvy to. Your minds are clearly made up, and so when we try to engage in some bullshit pseudo-discussion it all seems a bit pointless as we don't get listened to.

The issue over Kuta - it took about 20 mods complaining vigorously over a period of about 3-4 weeks before you did anything about it. Again, it's so demoralising.

Going back to the SCR's, you very rarely side with moderators and it doesn't look good upon us as the mods when our supposed leader is basically slagging us off in front of people we are trying to help. If my boss did that to me at work, I would go crazy. So why is it any different here? I know this has been said to you before, but it definately does seem that it's your way or the highway. Anytime an issue comes up, I hold my breath in anticipation praying that your personal
opinion agrees with my own. Otherwise I know I'm screwed on that point.

teo - we very rarely hear from you. And when we do, it's usually a few very blase lines over a very contentious subject. When there were so many other issues around, why did you take it upon yourself to re-do the forums - rename it to something ridiculous and make the layout worse for everyone?

Discuss...

#7 - The Quality Of Discogs

This is one thing, and perhaps the most important thing that I haven't brought up yet cos truth be told I hadn't seen it for myself yet. One reason I spent so much time on this site, was because I loved the idea of someone being able to come on
here and find the answers to questions I kept seeing on some of the music forums I browsed. It was usually along the lines of "Has Remix X been released", "What's the tracklisting of the UK Promo CD as opposed to the US Promo CD", etc.

Everytime one of those popped up I would direct people to this website, and we got to a stage where a formidable part of back catalogues from a wide variety of genres were being tracked and the holes filled. In the past 6 months much of that
has gone to shit truth be told. I've lost count of the number of people I had on my Watchlist who were filling gaps that desperately required them. I had 1 guy who was a serious Madonna collector and was submitting things that were insane. I had a few guys who between them were on all the UK Pop Promo lists and were subbing each new release as and when they got it. I had a few guys subbing stuff from the US Commercial Dance side of things. Another gap that was desperate to be filled.

Much of that is gone now. I can't remember the last time I directed someone to this website to find information. Hell, half the time when I'm searching for stuff myself, I rarely find the releases listed. Or if they are, they are listed
among the unmodded batch (and usually incorrect). It feels like the ultimate goal is being missed in the middle of discussing whether or not the Master Release function is ever going to be added this side of this millennium.

Discuss...

dj_purity_control
Can Teo really be happy with the effects of Nik as manager?

Search Marketplace Search all Discogs

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sure he can.

Then what about this post I made in the editor forum a loooong time ago?

A pop quiz for the management - nik & teo

1. Do you think V3 is a success?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

2. Do you have any plans to do any changes to V3 as requested by several moderators and editors?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

3. Do you think it's a problem that so many moderators and editors are feeling hopelessness and frustration and are starting to question the direction of the whole site?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

4. Do you think that the moderators and the editors should have anything to say about in what direction Discogs is going?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

5. Do you think it's a bad idea to use the editor and moderator forums before you do any changes to the site?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

6. Do you see the ever growing queue of unmoderated releases as a problem?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

7. Is it acceptable with more than 5% of the releases within Discogs to be unmoderated? (Clue: that is the current level if the 811,526 releases listed on the start page is correct).

YES [ ] NO [ ]

8. Is there any planned changes that you haven't told us about?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

9. Is it a strategy from you to avoid answering questions and even avoid turning up at all in the forums during the weekends?

YES [ ] NO [ ]

10. Question for extra points! WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW? Clear answers will be revarded with a higher number of points!!!

It's beyond three months now and still no answers!

We need to start a new site! Open source, devide the profit between the users...

Not a bad idea, really...using this as a guideline for what to do and what NOT to do...

Wow - I certainly wasn't expecting this sort of reaction. But here goes...if someone could post this in the Discogs Mods forum I'd appreciate it.

I spent an entire Sunday morning compiling my post. I spent a good few hours thinking long and hard about it and trying to word it in a way that was least offensive to everyone and stuck to the subjects at hand. Yes, many of them were discussed previously and scattered about. All I was trying to was compile them into one space to have one central thread for a number of concerns that were shared amongst many mods. It's ironic that I got booted for starting up what I felt was a so-called "positive" thread aiming to discuss the issues at hand, and not for my previous posts where I plainly called out my dislike for the way things were being handled.

Also, I want to make it clear that my performance as a moderator was NEVER EVER brought into question. Did I make mistakes? Yup. Did I give a few dud votes? Hell yeah. Did I apologise? Around 80% of the time. I've hardly moderated since v3.0 was introduced and I was never once told I was on thin ice for supposed bad votes or that I had to be more careful, or anything of the sort. To say otherwise is really insulting to me.

Not that I want to see other moderators get booted, but surely if I'm being held to one standard, then at least 2 others deserve to be kicked out too given the amount of threads and posts (in my defence!) that have been deleted since? I don't know any of these guys in real or Internet life really. The only mod I had some sort of interaction with is Dan_Dadda, and that's cos we used to go to the same clubs. So I certainly didn't go round asking my friends to big me up, and honestly I am very surprised this has caused this much of a stir.

If someone can honestly tell me the elements of my post that were considered trolling, and have a valid explanation for it then I'll happily accept it. If I really was trolling, I'd have made it much more obvious.

When I joined Discogs, I thought the vision was amazing. The idea that we could put all this info up for everyone to access at their fingertips. As I said in my original post, I wanted people to stop flooding a message board I visit everyday with the kinds of questions they could easily find the answers to over here. I kept thinking that surely there must be more than one person wondering these same things? I'm a huge Michael Jackson fan, so I loved seeing the random sorts of things people would sub. I got messages from some of my favourite Remixers for all the work I did on their pages!

My biggest gripe will be the fact that I have spent so much painstaking time away from my friends, family, girlfriend because I believed in the vision. And it all seems for nothing. That really saddens me.

Posted.

http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/153851 for those who have access.

It will probably be gone within the hour...

I doubt Nik is so dedicated to his job that he's going to be deleting posts after midnight, so it's probably safe until morning...

ah yes - forgot about the large time zone difference for a sec ;)

Sandeep requested that I save the responses to his post that I posted in the mod forum. Here they are (I'll keep adding as they come):

skutchy
: his is a real shame. I didn't read the post in question so I really couldn't comment on the content but this is the second valued mod (that I know of) who has been booted for apparently questioning the system. I don't want to get the whole DJ PC thing started again or to tell Nik he's wrong but it seems a shame that these people are no longer with us and especially in this case, apparently without any prior warning.

Do we know if this is a permanent or temporary ban by the way Kergillian? It'd be a shame if Sandeep had gone forever.

*Legal note - I am not questioning the system outright, not badmouthing nik and not trying to troll anything. I just wanted my support for god mods (and there are lots of them) to be noted.

cheers.

*that should be good mods of course.

Freudian slip?

Mad_Porno_Max
It's really terrible.

Nik, if you still call yourself a community manager, please remove me as Moderator.

Ganjoe_Rood
that is the initial post. i don't know the content of the several "Just About Done?" threads that were created by different mods and deleted by nik after the first was locked.

(he re-posted the thread)

asylum27
Mad_Porno_Max
Nik, if you still call yourself a community manager, please remove me as Moderator.

No don't go, your modding is of a consistently hight standard.

This is ridiculous.

Nik, you need to reinstate Sandeep, with an apology, if this is ever going to be right.

There was nothing remotely trollish about the topic he posted or the way he posted it, merely points for discussion fairly well put. And no amount of censorship is going to make that need for discussion go away.

Like most of us, I think he just cares about this site and wants it to work.

skutchy
In light of Ganjoe_Rood's post I see no obvious reason for cancellation of Sandeep's mod status. Obviously I don't run this community but if nik wants to clarify his position that will probably avoid a lot more negativity and potential mod-banning.

Mad_Porno_Max
Nik, if you still call yourself a community manager, please remove me as Moderator.

Don't you go as well Max, Jesus, we need every decent established mod we can get our hands on right now.

organic-pipeline
There is nothing in Sandeep's post that I don't agree with.

Because of the overall lack of quality of v. 3.0, I admit that I myself have become fairly sloppy and indifferent when it comes to modding. I try not to cast wrong votes, but if I have doubts about a sub, I rarely bother to ask for advice. Why try to educate myself? I just leave it. If a sub needs fixing, I just leave it.

Yesterday/earlier, nik said: "I could count on one hand the number of posts I deleted here last year."

Just today, he's already killed more posts...

Kergillian
skutchy
Do we know if this is a permanent or temporary ban by the way Kergillian? It'd be a shame if Sandeep had gone forever

AFAIK it's permanent. But nik doesn't seem to even be informing people of their removal these days, let alone explaining the details...first with dj_purity_control and now with SC725 it seems as though he's hoping that all trace simply disappears (as this thread likely will as soon as nik gets back online tomorrow...and I may well be next for posting it;)

And I'd just like to say for the record, that even though Sandeep and I have had our issues in the past, mudslinging and all, I have never and WILL never advocate his removal as a mod. I think it was wrong, and is another chapter in the Decline and Fall Of The Discogs Empire...

halfler3o
In the final post of the locked thread "just about done" Nik apologises to Hannesl when mentions "Sorry, it was someone else who had replied and got upset". That person Nik was referring to was actually me (and I wasn't so much upset as 'bristling' with annoyance at the text in #5). I could say things like "well I suppose it takes 500+ submissions to ingrain some really bad moderating habits" but I don't think I shall because I don't think that is the case. But (with no names mentioned) new mods get a sideswipe, (i know where I am in the Discogs foodchain!)

Anyway I thought I might clear up the 'mystery' a bit upset person. I did try and respond to SC725, my own circumstances leave me short of sympathy for others, but I tried to engage him a little.

As a counselor I had to Counsel some poor chap who lamented a music magazine going to 'the wall' and some other guy who was convinced 'Computers did him out of a job' (he was a Gardener!). I don't counsel people anymore, I haven't got time or empathy for this kind of thing. I'm sorry, that's the way I feel. If this were a REAL job and I felt like SC725 I'd be looking for another one. Plain and simple.

Ganjoe_Rood
chandler75
Yesterday/earlier, nik said: "I could count on one hand the number of posts I deleted here last year."

and it was a lie.
but you also have to understand his frustration. he failed as an integrating authority for the community.

You know, I just realized that when nik originally removed dj_purity_control from the mods, he said it was temporary...?

http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/149218#1923029

nik
I am afraid for the time being, I have removed him from the moderators

I wonder if 'the time being' means eternally in this case...?

http://www.discogs.com/groups/topic/152605#1970469

nik
I'm very sorry folks, but [reinstatement] won't happen.

And it's gone...

Sorry if I missed any posts...

sent by nik to Kergillian on 07-Jan-08 08:20 PM
Hi Kergillian,

Please do not post any more of these ex-mod statements in the mod forum.

Thanks,

Nik

just discovered this forum now.

Stormbringer
We need to start a new site! Open source, devide the profit between the users...

Up for it!
I'd like to help to support - there are some plans for it in the german mod-forum going on currently with kreuztot & Haze on the wheels...

cheers djpc - good to see you posting here!

sjcee, have you received a message from dmaxx? If not contact him, he has a nice hyperlink for you. and Haze and kreuztot too for that matter.

sjcee
Up for it!
I'd like to help to support - there are some plans for it in the german mod-forum going on currently with kreuztot & haze on the wheels...

cheers djpc - good to see you posting here!

I suggested it a long long time ago; It truly is not fair that huge profits are derived from contributors hard work and in turn those contributors get treated as nothing more then fools for their labor.

oh and I think it is a fantastic idea........... and be willing to dedicate whatever small contributions I could make, simply because I always strongly believed in the idea of a comprehensive database for electronic music.

little_alien
sjcee, have you received a message from dmaxx? If not contact him, he has a nice hyperlink for you. and Haze and kreuztot too for that matter.

not yet, but I'll ask for, thanks...

Edit: Close (To The Edit) - in the summertime, with my love (naturally).

Having said all that, I'm still going to hold out till after v4 goes live, just incase it isn't the end of the world.

Hi guys,

I´m not that long on discogs, but I am kinda familiar with the structure of it from lurking for years. It took me a while to motivate myself for submitting new releases. Now reading this I start to re-consider my motivation. Espacially reading that people had served for years on this data and got dropped within seconds. It´s a pitty. I imagine they started same as me, or maybe more enthusiastic than myself, and just wanted to share some knowledge on records.
After stumbling on this thread I´m really sceptical about the future of this data/my membership. It´s almost same to gemm, btw.
I totaly agree this kind of treatments from provider/conductor-side is type of fascistic but with the differance that they don´t care about your race, just about your contribution to society, that´s why I´ll re-name the title of this forum in "I Hate The Communist Community Manager".
;-)

^^ banned from the help forums for nothing. It's not even worth to repeat it here again.

No warning, no message from jerkface, I'm banned as well now, wheeeee!