AN IMPORTANT FACT ABOUT PITCH CONTROLS ON TECHNICS TURNTABLES

If you have Technics SL-1200 MK2's, you have a pitch control with a click in the middle when you are '0' in the green.

For the past 10 years, Technics have come out with several different models.

If you do not have an MK2? MIXING LONG BLENDS BECOMES A TASK.

"I don't have a problem mixing, Bones, I mix fine"

I just bought a pair of brand new SL-1200 MK2's to retire my SL-1210 M5G's. I bought the M5G's in October 2004 and they are back in the boxes ready to sell. They work as new, but the pitch controls are nowhere near as tight as the MK2.

You want em', I'm selling them cheap.

With the brand new MK2's, I'm back in business. You will notice a drastic difference in my mixing in my next Discogs mixing.

So if you have the MD3's or M5G's? Your mixing is not going to be as tight.

always thought the inside were meant to be the same (including the pitch).

I did find it harder to mix on the MK5's at first. I thought it was becuase they were brand new and needed to be used a bit.

sent you a mail frankie.

If you do not have an MK2? MIXING LONG BLENDS BECOMES A TASK.

i agree , but still , when you're mixing in the '0' area it could get really wobbly , or is that only with my spinner's? (MK 2 of course)
that's why i always thought the other version without the '0'-click is better to work with , i don't mean that black version !

but it's true to say :

MK2 - the one and only !!!

i personally love the M5Gs. i spin on them more than MK2s because thats what my friend has at his place so i've learned how to control them pretty well. i think the feeling is extremely similar, just have to be extra careful when going past the 8 point mark on the pitch control.

why , what happens at the 8 point mark ???

well the whole selling point to the 1210 M5Gs is they have an extra +/- 8 pitch adjustment for a total of 16. all other MK series turntables max out at 8.

Is the slide area for the pitch adjustment double the MK2s ? If that makes sense.

actually it's very similar in size. larger, but not by much. thats why you have to be more careful because a small movement on the M5G is equivalent to a larger movement on the MK2.

I took two brand new SL-1200 MKII's out of the box and the records felt like they were mixing by themselves. The M5G's feel close but mixing is more chore like and harder to keep tight during long mixes.

actually it's very similar in size. larger, but not by much.

That would be difficult to get used if you have used MK2s for xx years !!

@ Frankie - Do clubs you play in only have MK2s or have some other Vestax-like machine taken over?

lenny - i dunno, i got used to them very quickly, in fact if you never told me they had +/- 8 more than MK2s (and there were no markings on the deck itself) i would think it's the same exact mechanism. the reaction speed is about the same. i think why frankie feels they don't mix as tight, is because on MK2s, you can make bigger pitch movements and compensate with a little finger delay on the plate to get mixes tighter, faster, and keep them there longer. with M5Gs you have to be just a little bit more precise and try not to mess with the pitch control as much.

Yep I would have thought the pitch would be a lot more brutal on small knocks, that is pretty much only way I mix, I never tend to touch the platter or vinyl so I guess I would have a nightmare trying to use a MK5.

that is pretty much only way I mix

chaos attack , lol
must be very hectic , i knew a dj years ago and he used to only mix with the pitcher ,brilliant art ,
but sometimes the delay gets to wobbly if you're not really make big moves with the pitchfader
(what really could mess things up ;^),
on the other hand my mate is literally walking with the fingers on the label to get it straight , so all in all

MK2 - a multitalent , makes it easy to pitch but still not easy to mix !!!

fabriknos: from listening to frankies mixes i dont think he touches the platter.

most dj's who are into long tight mixing will only ride the pitch.

i hate it when i can hear people with fingers all over the place. give me few more years i wont ever need to touch the record once i have put it down;)

the trick to matching with the pitch control only is to flick it far and bring it back a little bit further in the direction you're going.

yeah im not saying its a good idea to touch the platter. and frankie definitely rides the pitch only as i saw at my house party a little while ago. im just an amateur so its been helping me figure out if i need to speed up or slow down a particular record. i get nervous and just want the bpms lined up again. but im trying to get away from that.

I can only guess that your ear gets so finely tuned you are able to tell when a mix is going a little offbeat before it starts, I have only touched my turntables in the past 8 years so God only knows how I would cope on a different set up!

Yeah, the connection between the ear and the pitch control has got to be very tight otherwise you lose control by moving the pitch up & down too much.

At the moment, I don't mix a lot so I struggle a bit more with my tightness, lol.

the Mk5, not the Mk5G, is a lovely creature. no click, same mechanism as the Mk2. no double zero = much happiness.

I'm the type of DJ that stands forever in front of the tables trying to get the pitch exact just before fading in - even if it takes me the entire previous song to get it tight. It's not the most effecient way of doing things but I hate tapping on the platter to control the pitch. The only exception is when I'm speed mixing and I ride the pitch control to compensate. I prefer the MK2s hands down.

interesting how everoyne has different approaches. in the short time i've DJ'ed i've come to realize that i like mixing in tracks quickly, especially when it comes to harder styles of techno, because otherwise it gets uber boring. i don't spin trance or house so i don't have the benefit of these big, epic song structures, and if you want to keep peoples' attention you have to keep it moving. now, i just have to get better ;)

Technics always seem to go crazy with model numbers. Now there are no more silver ones called the SL-1200 MK2, they are now black. And no more SL-1210 MK2's, they are SL-1210 M5G's.

Let me just say that I have not had a traditional MK2 set since 1996. I was using the LTD's which had a reset button, but still had a click in the middle. The the M5G's which I sold last night.

If you have an M5G and go and play on a regular MK2, you will notice the difference straight away. These new ones I got are so precise and perfect that I feel like an idiot for ever trying anything else.

Lenny - Mostly MK2's sometimes maybe a pair of M3D's. That is standard pretty much in America.

frankie, what's difference between SL-1210 MK2's & SL-1210 M5G's?

frankie - i am getting a pair of SL1210 MK2s after all. as much as i want the M5Gs, i just dont want to spend that much money, and i can get a pair of perfect-condition MK2s for $550 w/ stanton needles and flight cases...

gmos - sorry to answer for frankie, but here's a quick breakdown as far as i know (correct me if im wrong, people):

SL1200 MK2 - original model, silver, red LED, quartz lock
SL1210 MK2 - original model, black, red LED, quartz lock
SL1200 MK3 - later model, silver, red LED, no quartz lock
SL1210 MK5G - newest model, black, blue LED, extra +/- 8 pitch control

The Pitch Control is computer controlled on an M5G. However I do not know exactly what that means? It has two settings. The standard +8 and also +16. The feel is different 100%. It also tends to drift ever so slightly.

It also is funny that in the past 5 years I have bought all kinds of different decks. there was this one Vestax that I LIKED! But you cannot find these anymore.

i often wonder why other manufacturers even bother making turntables for DJs. you know they won't compete with Technics' numbers.

still there are thousands and thousands of these non Technics sold every month. Bought either by newbies, that can't afford 2 Technics a mixer and two cartridges straight away to start practicing, or by HipHop DeeJays, that prefer the Vestax or any other TT model with that additional start/stop buttons, so they can place the TT the other way round, so that the Tone Arm ain#t in the way for scratching anymore... some preferstraight Tone Arms , he list goes on, you won't find only on brand of each good. Okay The Merceds Benz is the best Auto Mobile by far without any doubt, still you have Porsche, BMW, Opel, Forsd, Toyota, Mazda, FIAT, Volkswagen etc.!

You forgot this

That is called the Anycar. The Technics would be called the Onlycar.

wow, does that look like a disaster or what

woophey. Finally a volkswagen-cadillac-o-van

you will get an excellent sound in that car.
The round inside of a Beetle is an ideal acoustic space. Just place 1 speaker to the left- and 1 to the right-side behind the frontseats and turn the backseat-bank down, so that you have a flat surface - then lay back. You feel like you're stuck inside of a headphone...

There were several "Anycars" built in the mid 70's. You can imagine being 9 years old and going to a New car show and seeing it for real? I loved that one as horrible as it looks today. : )

FRONT VIEW

bones, sorry but you are just plain wrong about the MK5Gs. listen to my mixes and you'll hear it yourself (i can't do any better with MK2s).

yeah lets take this back to the topic. as you know i just got a pair of M3Ds and i am looking forward to mixing with them. here's what i like about them: they have a reset button to take you to 0 pitch, but they do not lock you there. what if you need to speed up a record only by 0.2%? on the MK2s, it will keep you locked at 0 for any movement that small, forcing you to keep messing with the pitch or go to your other turntable and adjust that. now you're talking about changing pitch on two turntables which is never fun in a mix.

this may not happen much to you Bones but i know it's happened to me and i like having the tiny bit of extra freedom that the M3D provides.

I don't have a problem adjusting pitch on an opposing turntable to compensate for the lock. It's just a matter of preference I guess.

> KidJ - I opened the M5G's up and the pitch control is working off a totally different "Computer Controlled" mechanism.

The question is not if you can do any better with an MK2. It is more of the fact that I can do better with an MK2.

That being said an M3D and MK5 are still different from that found on an M5G.

Like I said, it is my opinion that the 'click' is better. The reset button was never a real problem, it is just that the click
helps me know where + and - is by feel.

I am slightly confused reading this thread, are M5G's different from MK5 Technics?

I personally have a pair of 1200 MK5's that I bought last year and haven't noticed any real difference other than the lack of a centre-dent on the pitch adjust, which is replaced with the reset button, I still find that a little irritating even now as the click lets you know where you are but my mark 5's seem as tight as any mark 2's I have used int the past....

Ignore my ramble if, like I suspect, M5G's are a different turntable, sounds like they are..

fair enough, frankie. i guess that in the end it's all a matter of personal preference and practice. i just find it weird that you regularly open threads to diss the M5Gs in comparison to the MK2s because obviously they both have slight disadvantages when compared to each other but in the end they remain close to perfect (BOTH that is). and as i said, from a subjective point of view i think my mixing is quite ok or at least personally i am satisfied with it (which, again, you may invalidate or confirm by listening to my stuff if you like) - though, the weakest link in my mixing is certainly not my set up (although i wouldn't attest that i can mix as well with e.g. belt driven crap turntables...). well, you get my point.

oh, and the M5Gs look sexier.

@ audioaddict - you are correct, the Mk5 is IDENTICAL in terms of pitch control mechanism (analog control, NOT digital), but has the "click" at zero removed and replaced by a reset button to lock the pitch at zero for "normal" listening. the design was introduced to get around the "double zero" problem associated with the Mk2.

check the technics website for the specs...

KidJ - I only speak my mind from owning a brand new pair of M5G's which were bought in October of 2004. I was very excited about getting them too...I had sold my 1200LTD's for $1200 on e-bay. I had those since 1997.

They do look 'sexy' if we are looking at the deck itself. But the new MK2's I have are black and look quite nice being that they are only a week old.

The pitch is so perfect now. I have been able to ride a mix, walk away from the turntable get a drink and come back and it will still be on time. You can't do that on an M5G.

As for the MK5? I never said I had a problem with that deck.
The MD3's were not really a serious problem but I had noticed at certain times I had to really move the pitch around to keep it in time.

"The pitch is so perfect now. I have been able to ride a mix, walk away from the turntable get a drink and come back and it will still be on time. You can't do that on an M5G."

okay, i think you might be actually right about that. still, that doesn't really make your mixing significantly less ineffective. at least i really don't mind.

I like using the 5s, I like the extra range that switching from +/-8 to +/16 can give. I only switch it over when I'm playing a record that's just too fast or slow, otherwise I keep it within the +/-8 range.

For those with MK2s who get pissed off with the pitch wobble around zero, read this: http://technics.junglist.pl/hacking_technics.html

btw removing the ball bearing that creates the zero "bump" will not effect the pitch wobble!

audioaddict - yes, the two are different models. MK5s are just updated versions of MK2s with no 0 pitch lock, reset button, and i think a few other minor improvements. the M5Gs are a totally different beast, with extra +/-8 pitch range, blue LEDs and a glossy black finish. they are dead sexy i have to admit.

what i dont understand yet is the difference between M3Ds (or is it MD3?) and MK5s. seems like they both removed the 0 pitch lock and have reset buttons. anything else i'm missing?

The MK5 essentially is the same thing as an MK2. I could have bought one brand new without the box or cartridge for $250 last week but passed.

The thing with that was I did'nt want to come home with a silver MK5 and a black MK 2. And I packed up my M5G's with the materials from the MK2's which made them appear to be brand new.

The MD3 made it Technics first Attempt to redesign the MK2.
The power button is recessed, The reset button replaced the click and that was about it.

"okay, i think you might be actually right about that. still, that doesn't really make your mixing significantly less ineffective. at least i really don't mind."

And that is what I have thought for the past 9 years. I did buy the very first M5G's put out. Mixing at +16 setting for two or three minutes is very tough.

the tracks are just not made to be as slow or fast , but that's probably only my humble oppinion !
said it before and say it again and again and ...

you wanna enjoy your session , then go for

M - K - T - W - O

I wish I could have a humble opinion. But I have been playing records using Technics Turntables for 25 years and have been living a lie for the the past 9 by owning the LTD. EDITION and the M5G's. I'm back to the MK2....Best turntable ever.

...Best turntable ever.
Probably. But i seriousely believe that the M3D SOUNDs better than the MK2 !!!
You won't notice this under normal circumstances, but since i am recently importing Vinyls very often to my iMac i often notice, that the older MK2 (with the same cartridge as the M3D) often transports more unwanted surface noises, than the M3D. I even tried to change the thicker gum-platters from the M3D to the MK 2.
But to no avail.
i cannot exactly remember which platter belonged to which player.
One is very thin and the other really thick and heavy. The other difference is a different Technics Slip Mat and the M3D has a piece of plastic that can be placed between the gum-platter and the Technics Slip-Mat. And the M3D has a hole for another cartridge, BUT no more connectors for the Acryl Dust Keeper (Abdeckhaube ??) which is a huge pain in the ass !!! Wherever you pit it it is in the way... To buy a pair of tihis connectors set you back another 50 Dollars and you still have to drill holes for them to use them properly.
I used 2 pairs of slip-mazs for a while and got rid of both Gum patters, so i am not 100% sure which one belonged to which player. But i guess the thin one was with the MK2. Can anyone confirm this ?

i'm confused now !

the rubber mat is the main platter cover , innit ?
got the mk 2 and this is round 5-7 mm thick !
when i first got my TT's i got rid of them and only used ordinary slip-mats !

maybe i get it all wrong here , but i've never seen someone actually using that fat gum f***g thing !

and the thing with the dust keeper , what is used as a cover when buying ???

a towel , or a plastic box ?

I never used the regular rubber mat. So to be honest I can't say that one would might sound better then the other.

I do know the RCA's on the M5G's were superior to the MK2.

RCA's???

i guess the connection cable , my english isn't that brill

the plastic what u used to use between the gum and the slipmat is only there to make the slipmat more slidy !
there's no point having it on rubber , i guess ?!

Andre - yes, RCA is the cable. The M5G has gold-connectors and is premium as compared to an MK2.

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RCA is the connector, I think, rather than the cable. What some would call a "phono" plug.

I had the cables swapped out on my decks, so now the cables are fatter and more robust and I don't have to have a seperate weedy ground cable as the audio cables are grounded.

yes in german we call it "chinch" connection !

all my cables are fat in my set-up (each was at least 25€ , depending on the length), all connections are goldplated , but still the main supply (MK2) is cheap f****g crap , but i'm not to sure to change the cable myself . what do you think it would cost to get it changed from a pro ?
my mate swapped the pitch controls and that was a procedure , i tell ya !

There's a guy in London called the Deck Doctor (his real name is Nick) who for years has just been going round to people's houses and doing this, andre-djbio. He will swap out the pitch controls, remove the 0% bump, replace the audio cables etc. I don't know how difficult it is, but many people would rather pay someone who knows what they're doing when it comes to their precious (and tricky electronic) possessions.

you're just right , m8 !

In most cases I don't see why you would need to pitch a track
+ or - 16, except maybe to use for effect or something. There may be those few rare records you can play pitched way up or down (more than +or- 8) but not many.

They're very useful when playing a warm up set, for example, when you want to play reaaaally slow, or when some of the tracks you wanna play are otherwise too fast to mix into your slow records.

as i mentioned earlier in this thread , in my oppinnion are the traxx just made to be played within that +8 -8 range . if a track doesn't fit , it's just not supposed to sit there ;^)
but everyone is handling music different ,

and this good , though !

spyder - well say you wanna go from a 121bpm tech housy track up to a 136 or 137bpm techno track. with normal MK2s/M3Ds at their full pitch reach, you still can't get them to the same speed. if you have the time, pull out a better segway record, where the bpm is somewhere in the middle, but with M5Gs you can avoid that and beatmatch pretty much any record in your bag.

of course... jumping so high in the bpm's is not something i'd recommend doing much... even if your beatmatching is perfect it's still gonna sounds pretty damn disjointed.

@fabriknos....good point but like you said, if you're mixing two tracks..one with the pitch all the way down and the other all the way up they most likely will not sound good toghether...a train wreck waiting to happen.

I would like to see a 1200 with the pitch accuracy of the MKII with an optional click in the middle. What has happened to me many times is you're playing a track at 0 and the track you are trying to mix in is very close in BPM's but will not lock in at 0. And just above or below the center is slightly off too.
Of course if you speed up or slow down the track your currently playing a little bit...problem solved, but still I don't like that.
Even though no one will probably notice.

spyder to fix that problem check the link I posted above. remove the zero wobble.

or just buy the M3D, MK5 or M5G instead of the MK2.

@md, thx for the link....I have heard about that before but never really wanted to hack my decks.

I have played on the M3D and even though the zero lock gets in the way once in a while I like having it there. I'm just so used to it...it would feel strange if it wasn't.

I just mixed two CD's with the new MK2's. If you want to mix records without effort it is really the only way to go. In fact I would love to hear someone use a pair of MD3s or MK5s, M5G's in a mix. If anyone has mixed anything without edits in the mix forum, let me know please? I would love to be proven wrong on this, but it ain't gonna happen.......

As I posted my last post I promised myself I would wait 72 hours before answering anyone saying "Oh I have MD3's and my mixes in the mixes forum are perfect". I cannot even begin to explain how taking brand new MK2's out of the box and mixing on them for the first time feels. It is incredible to say the least. Especially after spending the last 9 years with the LTD's & The M5G's. If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I have had a pair of MK2 1200's for years and have never had any problems with them and mixing is a joy. I am missing them like crazy as they are in the UK and im in NZ.

I need to pick up a deck asap to play the vinyl I have been buying.

I need a deck with plus 16 as it will then compliment my two 1200's when I get them. It is the only thing I wish my 1200's had, oh a one of those reverse switches which I never got hold of.

So What is the reccomendation for a plus 16 deck??? the M5G??

yes.

I am so lost reading your posts. I have been saying the SL-1200 MK2's are the only Technics to own...